OT: Ranking the 30 Best NBA teams from 2000-'12

[FirstTimer]

LeBron James vs. Metta World Peace | Basketball-Reference.com

I don't see where Artest is stopping Lebron from controlling shit. Nor would he at any time in his prime. If anything, it would be the other way around.

Sorry houf. Rami uses only facts and statistics to back up his arguments.


Your facts and statistics are wrong.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

There are plenty of games on that list that shows Ron Artest held James to plenty of sub-par performances. The facts are in my favor in that regard.

Who was a better perimeter defender to guard LeBron since the last decade? Nobody.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Lindsay Hunter?

Lindsey Hunter vs. LeBron James | Basketball-Reference.com

He did a better job than Artest.

ur funny

 

[FirstTimer]

Good to know that Artest can hold LeBron to basically a triple-double and 26 points.

Nothing shows better evidence of a player holding another player in check like holding that player to his career averages....

:crazydance:

And since we all know Rami's next move will be to claim some of those numbers are from after Artest had peaked and fallen off while Lebron was going up...I just took it from the 5 games over the 2003-2004 season. So I'm actually letting Artest be evaluated while perhaps beating up on a rookie/young James, rather than even looking at what an MVP 9 year veteran James would do to him.

James vs Artest as a rookie/2nd year player in 2003-2004:

25 ppg
5 rpg
5 apg

50% shooting.


Wow. We are all IMPRESSED!

 

[FirstTimer]

There are plenty of games on that list that shows Ron Artest held James to plenty of sub-par performances. .

Yeah, there are so many games of James having a "sub-par" performance that James on the whole has averaged his career norms against Artest.

Even if what you say is "true" which it's really not, for James to average what he did against Artest overall there would have to be more games where James pushed Artest's poop in in order to elevate James' averages back up to career levels.

Do you understand how math works?

 

[FirstTimer]

Rookie year and 2nd year James pushes in prime Artest's poop.

I'm sure we would all be really worried about what the MVP Lebron James would do.

:rofl:

 

[FirstTimer]

Even more delicious.

Lebron's rookie numbers:

20.9 ppg

5.5 rpg

5.9 apg

42% shooting.


Rookie Lebron vs Prime Artest

24.5 ppg

5.5 rpg

4.3 apg

51% shooting


Prime Artest couldn't even hold a rookie Lebron under his season averages in most places.

:rofl:

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

below 40% - 3 gms

40-45% - 4 gms

45+ - 50% - 3 gms (career FG% of 47-48%)

50+% - 5 gms

And LeBron averages 26-27 pts per gm in his career.

Out of those 16 gms,

James was held under 20 pts 3 times,

held 23 pts or under another 3 times.

James scored over his career average 3 times out of those 16 games.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Even more delicious.

Lebron's rookie numbers:

20.9 ppg

5.5 rpg

5.9 apg

42% shooting.


Rookie Lebron vs Prime Artest

24.5 ppg

5.5 rpg

4.3 apg

51% shooting


Prime Artest couldn't even hold a rookie Lebron under his season averages in most places.

:rofl:

Nice three game sample size.

Here are what also happened in those 3 games:

LeBron with 6, 7, and 4 turnovers.

Cavs lose, Cavs lose, Cavs lose.

:shrug:

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

below 40% - 3 gms

40-45% - 4 gms

45+ - 50% - 3 gms (career FG% of 47-48%)

50+% - 5 gms

And LeBron averages 26-27 pts per gm in his career.

Out of those 16 gms,

James was held under 20 pts 3 times,

held 23 pts or under another 3 times.

James scored over his career average 3 times out of those 16 games.

so,by this, a prime(2003-2004) artest(whom a rookie lebron played well against) would fare well defensively against a stronger,better shooting,post up version of lebron?

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

The amount of turnovers LeBron James commits against Ron Artest is staggering up until the past couple of seasons (well past Artest's prime).

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

so,by this, a prime(2003-2004) artest(whom a rookie lebron played well against) would fare well defensively against a stronger,better shooting,post up version of lebron?

Of course this is the best LeBron James we've seen here in 2012. This version of LeBron is stronger in general and better (not polished) in the post.

Is he light years ahead of what he was at the end of his Cleveland days? Nope.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Nice three game sample size.

except we're talking about artest in 2003-2004

Here are what also happened in those 3 games:

LeBron with 6, 7, and 4 turnovers.

1.lebron has always been turnover prone

2. he was a rookie

3.ron artest is great at forcing TOs, but was not effective in stopping him from scoring or in guarding him

Cavs lose, Cavs lose, Cavs lose.

who cares? that cavs team finished 12 below .500

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Is he light years ahead of what he was at the end of his Cleveland days? Nope.

no one brought that up

the difference is that he's finally understanding how the exploit match ups in the post and we saw first hand how that opened up the offense(especially from outside) for miami

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

4 turnovers = staggering

The 2004 Pacers are better than the 2012 Heat because this one time when he was on the Cavs LeBron James committed 4 turnovers in a game.

Number of turnovers in LeBron's first 12 career games head-to-head with Ron Artest:

6, 7, 4, 4, 6, 6, 5, 3, 7, 3, 7, 4

 

[FirstTimer]

below 40% - 3 gms

40-45% - 4 gms

45+ - 50% - 3 gms (career FG% of 47-48%)

50+% - 5 gms

You can't add.

3+4+3+5=15 games.

DERP!

And LeBron averages 26-27 pts per gm in his career.

Wrong again.

27.6 ppg

James was held under 20 pts 3 times

OMG! 3 of 16 games. Holy shit.

Artest must be a stud!

James scored over his career average 3 times out of those 16 games.

Again.

You can't count. In 25% of the game James played against Artest he scored more than 27.

28, 34, 37, 31. He also had 3 more games where he scored exactly 27.

So in almost half of James games against Artest he is above or virtually at his career scoring average.

So basically all this shows that James as a rookie was actually better than a prime Artest then he was against the rest of the NBA and on balance for his career he's actually pretty much on average for his career numbers and as of late has made a habit of pushing in Artests shit.

Even in a game where scores less than 20 his team won, he put up a near triple double (19-8-9) and Artest played even worse.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

no one brought that up

the difference is that he's finally understanding how the exploit match ups in the post and we saw first hand how that opened up the offense(especially from outside) for miami

Okay, I understand that.

And what good is that going to do with Ron Artest guarding him? Artest is probably the strongest wing player in the NBA. He couldn't bully Artest inside as he did to Sefolosha.

 

[FirstTimer]

Nice three game sample size.

It's actually 4 games.

11/4, 12/15, 12/30/, and 3/14.


How do you expect people to take you seriously when you can't even add/count to 4?

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

except we're talking about artest in 2003-2004




1.lebron has always been turnover prone

2. he was a rookie

3.ron artest is great at forcing TOs, but was not effective in stopping him from scoring or in guarding him

1-2.

6, 7, 4, 4, 6, 6, 5, 3, 7, 3, 7, 4

Those are beyond James' rookie year and well above his turnover/gm average.


3.

Artest isn't going to be letting James get easy baskets inside. What makes James who he is, is his strength and speed when you give him a little bit of space to penetrate in the lane. Artest was too much of a bull (much like James) to allow James to dominate inside or the post.

How many times did James score over his career average vs. Artest? 3 out of 16 times (and barely over- one of those times he was with the Kings). Artest also held him to his averages or maybe even slightly lower from the field.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

It's actually 4 games.

11/4, 12/15, 12/30/, and 3/14.


How do you expect people to take you seriously when you can't even add/count to 4?

Instead of acknowledging how few times James posted above his career averages (or massive amounts of turnovers), you focus on my "inability" to read a game-log. Who cares? 4 games is not much greater than 3.