OT: Ranking the 30 Best NBA teams from 2000-'12

[clonetrooper264]

uhhhhh...i would

:yep:

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

uhhhhh...i would

We know that the 2011 Heat had the 2 best players on the court (as well as 3 out of the 4 best) and still lost to the Mavericks.

The 2012 Heat featured a more polished/more aggressive inside scoring LeBron James. But the Thunder honestly didn't defend him well enough to stop him. They also had Shane Battier.

Did the Heat improve from 2011? Yes. But I still believe that championship Mavs team was better.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

We know that the 2011 Heat had the 2 best players on the court (as well as 3 out of the 4 best) and still lost to the Mavericks.

because lebron james averaged like 17 PPG for a series....

The 2012 Heat featured a more polished/more aggressive inside scoring LeBron James. But the Thunder honestly didn't defend him well enough to stop him. They also had Shane Battier.

no they didn't but it's difficult to defend it well when lebron starts on a post up...and that doesn't mean that dallas will be a ton better

Did the Heat improve from 2011? Yes. But I still believe that championship Mavs team was better.

the difference is the lebron from last year's finals compared to this year's

night and day

 

[FirstTimer]

I stop reading after this paragraph because it shows your stubbornness.

You are in love with LeBron James.

Odd, I'm "in love" with Lebron James yet I don't even mention him in the above statement.

:rofl:

Way to avoid the fact that I once again made you look like an utter basketball Special person.

Hate to break this to you but there is more to the "top end" of the Heat roster than Lebron James.

I am pretty sure you would rank the 2012 Heat over the 2011 Mavericks as well.

Yeah. So would quite a few other people it seems.

LBJ and Wade are both better than Nowitzki and Bosh is the next best player after all.

So asinine.

This comment shows you still have no idea how to evaluate basketball. You've now applied looking at the Pacers 4-12 to looking at every teams 4-12. Special person. Wouldn't most people think that guys like Shawn Marion, Jason Kidd, Jason Terry and Tyson Chandler would be more "impactful" to look at for player evaluations than Jamaal Tinsley, an old Reggie Miller, Jeff fucking Foster etc? I mean Jesus Christ kid.

And all this is also ignoring the expanded game Lebron showed in the Finals as well this year as compared to last.

When talking about the 2012 Heat you're so hung up on the 2011 Heat it's absurd.

When evaluating how good the 2012 Heat were/are it doesn't matter how/what they did in 2011.

Pretty simple.

 

[FirstTimer]

Nice to see Rami's true intentions for this list coming out though. Basically it was a poorly put together and thought out slam piece of the 2012 Miami Heat.

 

[FirstTimer]

Its kind of funny in the opposite sense...here you have a team that makes the Finals in 2011 and wins it in 2012, and Rami is criticizing them for playing "poorly" in 2011. Yet looking at the other entries on his list, you have teams that made the Finals only once and many teams (Suns, Blazers, etc.) not at all.

I guess its just typical Rami...ignore facts if they don't support your argument, criticize one team for making the Finals and losing while praising another team for their regular season record despite losing in the 2nd round of the playoffs.

On top of all this I'm pretty sure Rami is on record somewhere in this thread as saying the EC back then was pretty weak/unimpressive or something along that line. So the 2012 Heat are "worse" than the 2004 Indiana Pacers despite the fact that the Pacers couldn't make it through a weaker EC to the NBA Finals let alone win them....meanwhile the Miami Heat made it through a tougher EC, and actually won the championship over what everyone pretty much agreed was a pretty damn good Thunder team?

:smh:

 

[nwfisch]

Odd, I'm "in love" with Lebron James yet I don't even mention him in the above statement.

:rofl:

Way to avoid the fact that I once again made you look like an utter basketball Special person.

Hate to break this to you but there is more to the "top end" of the Heat roster than Lebron James.


Yeah. So would quite a few other people it seems.



This comment shows you still have no idea how to evaluate basketball. You've now applied looking at the Pacers 4-12 to looking at every teams 4-12. Special person. Wouldn't most people think that guys like Shawn Marion, Jason Kidd, Jason Terry and Tyson Chandler would be more "impactful" to look at for player evaluations than Jamaal Tinsley, an old Reggie Miller, Jeff fucking Foster etc? I mean Jesus Christ kid.

And all this is also ignoring the expanded game Lebron showed in the Finals as well this year as compared to last.

When talking about the 2012 Heat you're so hung up on the 2011 Heat it's absurd.

When evaluating how good the 2012 Heat were/are it doesn't matter how/what they did in 2011.

Pretty simple.

:yeah:

 

[FirstTimer]

On top of all this I'm pretty sure Rami is on record somewhere in this thread as saying the EC back then was pretty weak/unimpressive or something along that line. So the 2012 Heat are "worse" than the 2004 Indiana Pacers despite the fact that the Pacers couldn't make it through a weaker EC to the NBA Finals let alone win them....meanwhile the Miami Heat made it through a tougher EC, and actually won the championship over what everyone pretty much agreed was a pretty damn good Thunder team?

:smh:

Found it:

...from 01-04 and then again from 07-09 (with the exception of Boston) the East was extremely light.

http://www.chicitysports.com/forum/549497-post13.html

Rami submarines himself yet again.

 

[FirstTimer]

Frankly, looking at it right now I don't know how Rami can have a team like the 2004 Pacers ahead of the 2011 Heat. The 2011 Heat made it through a tougher EC(arguably tougher than this year's EC perhaps?) to the Finals and lost to the 10th ranked team in the Rami-Nation.

 

[FirstTimer]

I'd also put this 2012 Thunder team on the list over a shit house squad like the 2004 Pacers for example.

 

[FirstTimer]

No way. The 2004 Pacers were a better rebounding team and had better interior defense. Carlisle would coach circles around Brooks. Scot Pollard is a matchup problem.

:rofl:






In all honesty...thinking about those two teams matching up...

The 2004 Pacers get their poop pushed hard by this Thunder team.

 

[houheffna]

Nice to see Rami's true intentions for this list coming out though. Basically it was a poorly put together and thought out slam piece of the 2012 Miami Heat.

Exactly...which is why I quit arguing about it. He had the era's best player at damn near the bottom of the list...lol...

 

[FirstTimer]

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Exactly...which is why I quit arguing about it. He had the era's best player at damn near the bottom of the list...lol...

He isn't the clear-cut best player of the era. Let's not forget about Shaquille O'Neal and Kobe Bryant. Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett are right there.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

I actually can handle Rami's bizarre opinions...what I don't like is his contradictory "arguments". Like how FirstTimes pointed out that Rami initially has the 04 Pacers as one of the top teams, then later on to "prove" a different "point", Rami says at that time the Eastern Conference was incredibly weak.

Its fine if Rami thinks little of LeBron, but he is too much of a pussy politician to actually take a stance on something. He's just a troll, nothing more (I know thats repetitive, but Rami IS still allowed to post here for reasons unknown).

The Pacers re-built not long after that 2004 brawl. The East had many years where there wasn't a lot of competition at the top. The '02-'03 Nets, '01 Sixers, and '07 Cavs making the Finals show that more than anything.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Yeah, thats why the 2004 Timberwolves are regarded just as highly as the title-winning 2012 Miami Heat team. And those Spurs teams that didn't make it past the 2nd round of the playoffs were clearly better than the 2012 Heat. Its because Garnett>>LeBron and Duncan>>>>LeBron.

I never said that KG and Duncan >>> LeBron. Now you're putting words in my mouth.

If the Bulls would have won the championship, I still would have made this thread because I make "shitty/annoying" lists.

And the Bulls also would have been at the bottom of the list.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

So then how could the 04 Pacers be superior to several teams that actually won NBA titles?

They clicked well together on both ends of the court. Artest was the best perimeter defender in the NBA at the time and he was in great shape and had more quickness and able to use his athleticism more offensively. Jermaine O'Neal wasn't exactly the best scorer in the league but he was an interior presence because of his face-up ability and decent jump-shot. But mainly it was his defensive ability that made him a star player. He could defend the interior as well as anyone in the league not named Ben Wallace or Kevin Garnett (and a better shot-blocker than Garnett). He was better than Bosh in my opinion although Bosh because of his defense. Jamaal Tinsley was a very underrated PG as well (better than Chalmers). Reggie Miller was old but a capable/clutch scorer. And Al Harrington was still young and a beast as well.

I believe the Pacers could have won the title in 2005 had it not been for the Malice at the Palace.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Kind of a hollow "argument" when you are doing these "best of the best" rankings. You offer no comparatives, except to say that Tinsley was better than Chalmers and O'Neal was better than Bosh (whatever). No mention of LeBron or Wade. You offer no actual analysis. Simply listing the strengths of a good team is pointless. I asked how the 04 Pacers were superior to several title winning teams, when by your own admission the Eastern Conference was pretty weak. You still haven't answered that question.

Although the AFC was weak, the 1986 Browns were better than the 1985 Bears. The Browns were really good. Bernie Kosar was better than Jim McMahon, and Gerald McNeil was better than Dennis Gentry.

Artest was the perfect player to guard a freak like LeBron James now (sick combination of size, speed, leaping ability, and strength). LBJ controlled the OKC series in a way he wouldn't have against IND's defense.

If Miami played small against Indiana, they could have just used JO+Artest+Harrington+Miller+Tinsley and still played great team defense (while maintaining a good offense).

Upon actually looking at that team more carefully, I don't think they are as good as what they would have been if they had been together for the 2005 season. I like Stephen Jackson a little more than Al Harrington for them.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

I decided to move those 2004 Pacers down the list under Miami.

 

[houheffna]

Artest was the perfect player to guard a freak like LeBron James now (sick combination of size, speed, leaping ability, and strength). LBJ controlled the OKC series in a way he wouldn't have against IND's defense.

If Miami played small against Indiana, they could have just used JO+Artest+Harrington+Miller+Tinsley and still played great team defense (while maintaining a good offense).

Upon actually looking at that team more carefully, I don't think they are as good as what they would have been if they had been together for the 2005 season. I like Stephen Jackson a little more than Al Harrington for them.

LeBron James vs. Metta World Peace | Basketball-Reference.com

I don't see where Artest is stopping Lebron from controlling shit. Nor would he at any time in his prime. If anything, it would be the other way around.