Pena Claimed By Yankees (Update: Pulled Back)

[Captain Obvious]

Yes that is just five years, but it disproves your contention that only 1 season in the past 65 years were the Cubs good on offense. Okay I understand that there were injuries, but what pitchers currently in the organization are likely to give better production? Cashner who has yet to throw more than a 100 innings as a professional? Trey McNutt who has struggled at AA this year and been unable to stay healthy? Jay Jackson who has sucked at AAA this year? Casey Coleman whose stuff is only a shade better than Frank Castillo's and lacks the control and pitching ability of Castillo? The Cubs have 2 quality starters in place next season in Garza and Dempster. Everything besides that is questionable at best. That is why signing Fielder and hoping to sign a Matt Cain type to replace Ryan Dempster really doesn't get this team any closer to contending.

The 1/65 is based off of wRC+, which correlates amazingly with runs, but I didn't want to get in that because I know that I will tar and feathered for it.

I would throw Wells into the quality starters group, as well. Most of this I addressed already in my previous post. See that.

 

[nwfisch]

Okay, but how big is the difference between Wilson and Jackson vs. Fielder and Pena?

Fielder and Pena is about 4 wins, Wilson and Jackson is about 2. Even if the Cubs do need SP as bad as you say, which I don't think that they do, it's much easier to get a lesser SP vs. a lesser 1B.



Actually, no, mine are better. Mine actually correlate to runs.

CJ Wilson is not a 2 win player. He is better than that.

Of course CO, you can't do any wrong

Why use ERA to judge pitching, look at total runs given and scored

 

[Captain Obvious]

CJ Wilson is not a 2 win player. He is better than that.

Of course CO, you can't do any wrong

Why use ERA to judge pitching, look at total runs given and scored

You're right, he isn't. Which is why I used the word difference.

Well, I encourage you to prove me wrong. Unlike you, Dewey, and Jntg, I actually use evidence to make my claims up. I can show you the graph that says that my stats are better than your stats, if you'd like.

Just trying to make this easy. I can, if you really want me to, but over such a large sample size, I'm pretty sure that we will yield the same results.

 

[Jntg4]

CJ Wilson is not a 2 win player. He is better than that.

Of course CO, you can't do any wrong

Why use ERA to judge pitching, look at total runs given and scored

He means how much more Wilson is worth than EJax.

 

[Jntg4]

You're right, he isn't. Which is why I used the word difference.

Well, I encourage you to prove me wrong. Unlike you, Dewey, and Jntg, I actually use evidence to make my claims up. I can show you the graph that says that my stats are better than your stats, if you'd like.

Just trying to make this easy. I can, if you really want me to, but over such a large sample size, I'm pretty sure that we will yield the same results.

sabermetrics
not
saberstatistics

And what dabynsky used was runs scored... and I'm pretty sure runs correlates to runs better than wRC+ does...

 

[nwfisch]

He means how much more Wilson is worth than EJax.

I know. I'm willing to say that CJ is a 4-6 win difference over Edwin Jackson.

There is a reason Jackson has played for 5 different teams. He's not good, and couldn't thrive under Don Cooper.

 

[Captain Obvious]

I know. I'm willing to say that CJ is a 4-6 win difference over Edwin Jackson.

There is a reason Jackson has played for 5 different teams. He's not good, and couldn't thrive under Don Cooper.

I'm willing to say that you are wrong.

CJ Wilson has 4.8 WAR this year. Jackson has 2.8. Last year it was only a .2 difference, 4 vs. 3.8.

The number of teams doesn't correlate to whether or not they are good or not. He is actually pretty decent, but I don't guess that any stat or any form of logic is going to change your mind.

 

[nwfisch]

I'm willing to say that you are wrong.

CJ Wilson has 4.8 WAR this year. Jackson has 2.8. Last year it was only a .2 difference, 4 vs. 3.8.

The number of teams doesn't correlate to whether or not they are good or not. He is actually pretty decent, but I don't guess that any stat or any form of logic is going to change your mind.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McAeQiLmEYU]Lex Luthor in "Superman Returns" - Wrong - YouTube[/ame]

CJ Wilson has a 3.9 WAR
Edwin Jackson has 0 WAR this year.

My claim of 4 wins stands.
How about we use W/L record :lol:

Yeah it does, Milton Bradley played for 9 teams, so he can't be that bad.

 

[Uman85]

I know. I'm willing to say that CJ is a 4-6 win difference over Edwin Jackson.

There is a reason Jackson has played for 5 different teams. He's not good, and couldn't thrive under Don Cooper.

If you can't be somewhat decent under Don Cooper, there's no help for you. Even under Duncan in STL right now, he's still average at best, which is not what the Cubs need/want.

 

[Captain Obvious]

Lex Luthor in "Superman Returns" - Wrong - YouTube

CJ Wilson has a 3.9 WAR
Edwin Jackson has 0 WAR this year.

My claim of 4 wins stands.
How about we use W/L record :lol:

Yeah it does, Milton Bradley played for 9 teams, so he can't be that bad.

Kenny Lofton played for 11 teams. He really fuckin' sucks.

Yeah, W-L record. That's a great idea.

And he has been worth 2.1 wins according to B-R. Please, learn to read.

If you can't be somewhat decent under Don Cooper, there's no help for you. Even under Duncan in STL right now, he's still average at best, which is not what the Cubs need/want.

Average is about 2 WAR. I agree that's not what the Cubs need, but the difference between Jackson and Wilson is much smaller than the difference between Pena and Fielder.

 

[dabynsky]

Kenny Lofton played for 11 teams. He really fuckin' sucks.

Yeah, W-L record. That's a great idea.

And he has been worth 2.1 wins according to B-R. Please, learn to read.



Average is about 2 WAR. I agree that's not what the Cubs need, but the difference between Jackson and Wilson is much smaller than the difference between Pena and Fielder.

The cost difference between Jackson/Fielder and Wilson/Pena is also much higher.

 

[nwfisch]

Kenny Lofton played for 11 teams. He really fuckin' sucks.

Yeah, W-L record. That's a great idea.

And he has been worth 2.1 wins according to B-R. Please, learn to read.



Average is about 2 WAR. I agree that's not what the Cubs need, but the difference between Jackson and Wilson is much smaller than the difference between Pena and Fielder.

Lofton wasn't that great, but he did play for the Cubs in 03.

W-L record isn't great, but neither are random stats.

My bad.

Actually Jackson must be better than Wilson Jackson has a 9.7 WAR over 9.4 for Wilson.

 

[Captain Obvious]

The cost difference between Jackson/Fielder and Wilson/Pena is also much higher.

I really don't think it's that much. Wilson/Pena is probably 25 million combined, whereas Jackson Fielder is probably 30-32. That 5-7 million is actually below market value for the difference in performance.

 

[nwfisch]

I really don't think it's that much. Wilson/Pena is probably 25 million combined, whereas Jackson Fielder is probably 30-32. That 5-7 million is actually below market value for the difference in performance.

I really hope the Cubs don't sign Pena to $10M a year if they do resign him....

 

[dabynsky]

I really don't think it's that much. Wilson/Pena is probably 25 million combined, whereas Jackson Fielder is probably 30-32. That 5-7 million is actually below market value for the difference in performance.

I would be shocked if Jackson/Fielder got any less than 32 million combined. The difference by your numbers is 2 wins. So you are paying 7 million for 2 wins.

 

[Captain Obvious]

Lofton wasn't that great, but he did play for the Cubs in 03.

W-L record isn't great, but neither are random stats.

My bad.

Actually Jackson must be better than Wilson Jackson has a 9.7 WAR over 9.4 for Wilson.

Random Stats? What random stats? The stats I use correlate to run production very well.

Jackson has been in the majors since 03, Wilson since 05. Plus, it's not reliable information because Wilson has only been a starter for 2 years.

 

[nwfisch]

Random Stats? What random stats? The stats I use correlate to run production very well.

Jackson has been in the majors since 03, Wilson since 05. Plus, it's not reliable information because Wilson has only been a starter for 2 years.

You don't use total runs?

You use random metrics, not stats.

You throw them at us expecting them to stick.

You admitted there is a fallacy in the WAR metric. Now only if you quit using it :tiptoe:

 

[Captain Obvious]

You don't use total runs?

You use random metrics, not stats.

You throw them at us expecting them to stick.

You admitted there is a fallacy in the WAR metric. Now only if you quit using it :tiptoe:

There is fallacy in any stat that you use. That's the point, using stats, metrics, whatever, the ones you are using don't correlate to runs. The ones that I use, do. Does it really matter if I use metrics or stats or count ceiling tiles, as long as it tells me who is better? I don't think it does.

 

[nwfisch]

There is fallacy in any stat that you use. That's the point, using stats, metrics, whatever, the ones you are using don't correlate to runs. The ones that I use, do. Does it really matter if I use metrics or stats or count ceiling tiles, as long as it tells me who is better? I don't think it does.

I'd rather just count the tiles, instead of using a metric....

Same with total runs scored and allowed.

Pena was relieved that the Cubs pulled him back :lol:

 

[Captain Obvious]

I'd rather just count the tiles, instead of using a metric....

Same with total runs scored and allowed.

Pena was relieved that the Cubs pulled him back :lol:

So Yuniesky Bentancourt has scored 43 runs this season and Chase Headley has scored 42, therefore Headley is better??