Pick an owner: Reinsdorf or Dolan

[Crystallas]

This is the area that Thanks would be given. ^^^^^^ rep instead.

If Dolan trusts Thomas to ruin his team, but spends loads of money, that doesn't make him better. While I don't think Pax is a great GM, look around the NBA, the league is full of boneheaded GMs. I'd love to see Pax go, but in all honesty, he isn't anywhere near as bad as Thomas. Actually, Gar is pretty damn good.

 

[Diddy1122]

So honestly, who did he overpay for? Besides Jerome James. Allan Houston was one of the best SGs in the league when the Knicks signed him. Who couldve predicted he was gonna have injury problems? Stephon Marbury was one of the top PGs in the league as well. He hired Isiah Thomas for what he did the previous few seasons in Indiana. I cant fault him for hiring Larry Brown, or Lenny Wilkens either.

Most of the stuff your blaming Dolan for were GM decisions. Do we really need to rehash the dumb moves the Bulls GMs have made ove the last ten plus years?

Kobe, AI, Ray Allen, Vince Carter, Paul Pierce & Jerry Stackhouse were the cream of the crop when it came to SG's in 2001. Houston was good but nowhere near those guys leagues as a player. I'm willing to bet he wouldn't even make a top 20 of SG's of the past decade list right now. In the summer of '01, he received no offer higher than $75M total from any team. Dolan paid him $112M. Houston was VASTLY OVERPAID. He was overpaid so much so that they had to create a special clause in the CBA just so the Knicks could get out from under that albatross of a contract.

He hired Thomas for his experience as the Raptors GM, not his coaching stint with the Pacers, which was underwhelming to say the least. You can certainly fault him for hiring Larry Brown. All one needed to do was take a quick look at the roster & know that it was horrible idea to bring in Brown. Not only was it horrible, but SIGNING HIM TO A 5 YEAR/$50M DEAL! Let's also not forget the 2 (that's right 2!) seperate contract extensions to Herb Williams.

While were at it, Anucha Brown-Sanders anyone? He basically calls her a money-hungry ***** & fires her when she had CLEAR EVIDENCE OF HARASSMENT!

Just face it already. It's 14-1 in the vote. No one here agrees with you, or anywhere else in the NBA world for that matter. Even Knicks fans wouldn't agree with you. It's time to give it up.

 

[Axl Rose]

both suck


one doesnt spend enough the other spends too much

 

[97Bulls]

Egos played their part, but as I've stated many times on here before, the Bulls were not dominant by the end of '98. Their age was starting to show. It was evident to anyone with 2 working eyes. And, YES, money was an issue. You've completely forgotten the fact that the league was HEADING TOWARD A LOCKOUT. The owners had no idea what the new CBA agreement would look like & if they even would be able to keep the team together. But I guess there's really no need to take that into account when talking about the motivations for the owner's actions.

I fail to see how the lockout kept them from keeping that team together. Ii honestly dont knoow why youre arguing this. Krause is on record as saying the team was being broken up before 98 began. All this other stuff is just smoking mirrors. Its well documented that he want ed to break them up because he didnt feel appreciated. Those are facts.

 

[nwfisch]

I fail to see how the lockout kept them from keeping that team together. Ii honestly dont knoow why youre arguing this. Krause is on record as saying the team was being broken up before 98 began. All this other stuff is just smoking mirrors. Its well documented that he want ed to break them up because he didnt feel appreciated. Those are facts.

So Reinsdorf was supposed to fire Krause to keep the dynasty one more year? Seems petty.

Not only that, like Diddy mentioned, MJ isn't worth $35M in 1999. Teams have to pay players for what they will do, not what they've done.

 

[houheffna]

Krause wanted to end the dynasty in 1997, who stepped in? Jerry Reinsdorf. Krause was going to trade Pippen for McGrady (McGrady stated it himself). Jordan obviously was against, so Reinsdorf stepped in and stopped him.

Krause was again taken out of the decision in 1998...Reinsdorf supposedly did everything from try to sign back Jackson, Jordan, Pippen and Rodman as well as the whole supporting cast for another year...

Jordan DID NOT WANT TO COME BACK. Everybody who was around the Bulls knew about it. And it was less about Krause and more about his teammates at the time. Namely...Pippen and Rodman. Jordan had made up his mind before that postseason ended.

He delayed retiring because of the strike. He knew that if he retired before the CBA was settled, the union would lose leverage. It was pretty much cut and dry...plain and simple. Sam Smith wrote about it and Steve Rosenbloom has talked about it on radio. Did Krause have a lot to do with the split? Yes! Is he the sole reason? No. Not at all.

Every time I bring that up, the Pippen fans get antsy. It is what it is...

 

[97Bulls]

Kobe, AI, Ray Allen, Vince Carter, Paul Pierce & Jerry Stackhouse were the cream of the crop when it came to SG's in 2001. Houston was good but nowhere near those guys leagues as a player. I'm willing to bet he wouldn't even make a top 20 of SG's of the past decade list right now. In the summer of '01, he received no offer higher than $75M total from any team. Dolan paid him $112M. Houston was VASTLY OVERPAID. He was overpaid so much so that they had to create a special clause in the CBA just so the Knicks could get out from under that albatross of a contract.

He hired Thomas for his experience as the Raptors GM, not his coaching stint with the Pacers, which was underwhelming to say the least. You can certainly fault him for hiring Larry Brown. All one needed to do was take a quick look at the roster & know that it was horrible idea to bring in Brown. Not only was it horrible, but SIGNING HIM TO A 5 YEAR/$50M DEAL! Let's also not forget the 2 (that's right 2!) seperate contract extensions to Herb Williams.

While were at it, Anucha Brown-Sanders anyone? He basically calls her a money-hungry ***** & fires her when she had CLEAR EVIDENCE OF HARASSMENT!

Just face it already. It's 14-1 in the vote. No one here agrees with you, or anywhere else in the NBA world for that matter. Even Knicks fans wouldn't agree with you. It's time to give it up.

Youre arguing this wrong. As a fan in no way shape or form does it help our cause to have an owner that blantantly makes it known HE DOESNT GIVE A DAMN ABOUT THE BULLS PAST MAKING MONEY. HES EXPRESSED THIS PUBLICLY TWICE. This iis why players dont want to come here. Faactor in his ppenny pinching and it pretty obvious. Jerry Reinsdorf Is the Bulls worst enemy.

Ive neer hear or saw a Knick fan call for James Dolans head. They wanted Thomas fiired. Which he did.

As far as this silly vote. Makes no difference. At one time, people thought the world was flat, our solar sytem evolved around thhe earth. And if youre religious, the masses killed jesus. I know im right. Jerry Reinsdorf is killing the Bulls.

 

[97Bulls]

Krause wanted to end the dynasty in 1997, who stepped in? Jerry Reinsdorf. Krause was going to trade Pippen for McGrady (McGrady stated it himself). Jordan obviously was against, so Reinsdorf stepped in and stopped him.

Krause was again taken out of the decision in 1998...Reinsdorf supposedly did everything from try to sign back Jackson, Jordan, Pippen and Rodman as well as the whole supporting cast for another year...

Jordan DID NOT WANT TO COME BACK. Everybody who was around the Bulls knew about it. And it was less about Krause and more about his teammates at the time. Namely...Pippen and Rodman. Jordan had made up his mind before that postseason ended.

He delayed retiring because of the strike. He knew that if he retired before the CBA was settled, the union would lose leverage. It was pretty much cut and dry...plain and simple. Sam Smith wrote about it and Steve Rosenbloom has talked about it on radio. Did Krause have a lot to do with the split? Yes! Is he the sole reason? No. Not at all.

Every time I bring that up, the Pippen fans get antsy. It is what it is...

I remember you bringing this up. Ive never heard such. Can you prove this? It was my understanding that Jordan threatend to retire if they traded Pippen. Or if Krause fired Jackson.


Not saaying its not true. But I know its well documented Krause was breaking up the team.

 

[houheffna]

I remember you bringing this up. Ive never heard such. Can you prove this? It was my understanding that Jordan threatend to retire if they traded Pippen. Or if Krause fired Jackson.


Not saaying its not true. But I know its well documented Krause was breaking up the team.

I don't know if he threatened retirement, but he wasn't happy with Krause wanting McGrady and wanting to trade Pippen to get him.

I posted the article by Sam Smith, then I posted something from a Bulls scout talking about McGrady working out for the Bulls when he was 18. THEN I posted McGrady mentioning Krause wanting to draft him, he talked about it in 2010 when the Bulls brought him in for a workout. All of that is archived.

 

[houheffna]

Youre arguing this wrong. As a fan in no way shape or form does it help our cause to have an owner that blantantly makes it known HE DOESNT GIVE A DAMN ABOUT THE BULLS PAST MAKING MONEY. HES EXPRESSED THIS PUBLICLY TWICE. This iis why players dont want to come here. Faactor in his ppenny pinching and it pretty obvious. Jerry Reinsdorf Is the Bulls worst enemy.

Ive neer hear or saw a Knick fan call for James Dolans head. They wanted Thomas fiired. Which he did.

As far as this silly vote. Makes no difference. At one time, people thought the world was flat, our solar sytem evolved around thhe earth. And if youre religious, the masses killed jesus. I know im right. Jerry Reinsdorf is killing the Bulls.

WHAT??? Lol...what planet do you live on? Man I was watching a doc on Tribe Called Quest and Phife Dog was shitting on Knicks management. Damn near every Knicks fan hates Dolan...wow.

 

[97Bulls]

I don't know if he threatened retirement, but he wasn't happy with Krause wanting McGrady and wanting to trade Pippen to get him.

I posted the article by Sam Smith, then I posted something from a Bulls scout talking about McGrady working out for the Bulls when he was 18. THEN I posted McGrady mentioning Krause wanting to draft him, he talked about it in 2010 when the Bulls brought him in for a workout. All of that is archived.

I just read it on NBA.com. I find it kinda hard to believe because if its true Jordan wasnt comming back regardless, why wouldnt Krause make that known? It would redirect a large portion of the blame he has recieved.

 

[97Bulls]

I don't know if he threatened retirement, but he wasn't happy with Krause wanting McGrady and wanting to trade Pippen to get him.

I posted the article by Sam Smith, then I posted something from a Bulls scout talking about McGrady working out for the Bulls when he was 18. THEN I posted McGrady mentioning Krause wanting to draft him, he talked about it in 2010 when the Bulls brought him in for a workout. All of that is archived.

I just read it on NBA.com. I find it kinda hard to believe because if its true Jordan wasnt comming back regardless, why wouldnt Krause make that known? It would redirect a large portion of the blame he has recieved.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Lol...if Reinsdorf did with Jeremy Lin what Dolan just did...people would be climbing the walls and calling for JR's head. Dolan's problems are Dolan's fault! It is like running a company or being POTUS. You have to delegate responsibility and delegate WELL! You have to do a good job or you shouldn't be in that position.

I personally have had problems with Paxson...but I am not calling for Reinsdorf to sell the team because he did well enough in his decision making to get 6 rings. Dolan spends money to make up for the mistakes he made. He cakes mistake on top of costly mistake, that is why the Knicks spent $200mil in lux tax...

I'm not really saying that either is perfect or even that one is better than the other. Just saying that the case could be made and stated the case.

I think if any owner did what Dolan did with Jeremy Lin, people would be calling for heads. In that situation it was seemingly clear that they wanted to go with Lin as their PG of the future. They brought in Jason Kidd to try to help mentor him and help him become a better PG. The issue wasn't really the total money in the deal, it was the poison pill 3rd year. It's the same reason why we didn't keep Asik. Asik isn't worth 15M. Neither is Lin. Factor in the luxury tax penalty that would be paid that 3rd year and it's not really hard to see why they made that decision. If they could've averaged out the deal like the Rockets could so that it was around 8M a year, I think Lin would've been kept for sure and Asik might have been as well...maybe. No one here cared that Asik was let go for financial reasons because Asik was just a backup here. Lin was a clear starter and was maybe almost as important to that team as Melo and Amare in a way. That's why fans were upset.

Paxson has made his mistakes as a GM (Ben Wallace signing, drafting Tyrus Thomas, etc), but overall he was at least decent. Isaiah Thomas was just a terrible GM in every aspect. It's Dolan's fault for letting Thomas run wild like he did, but like I said, I'd rather have an owner like him paired with a good GM than Reinsdorf paired with a good GM because Dolan would let the GM spend more on talent. I think a GM like Gar could make this team a lot better if he could go into the tax.

 

[Jntg4]

Reinsdorf up 15-1 lol

 

[houheffna]

I just read it on NBA.com. I find it kinda hard to believe because if its true Jordan wasnt comming back regardless, why wouldnt Krause make that known? It would redirect a large portion of the blame he has recieved.

When has Krause made ANYTHING known?

 

[houheffna]

I'm not really saying that either is perfect or even that one is better than the other. Just saying that the case could be made and stated the case.

I think if any owner did what Dolan did with Jeremy Lin, people would be calling for heads. In that situation it was seemingly clear that they wanted to go with Lin as their PG of the future. They brought in Jason Kidd to try to help mentor him and help him become a better PG. The issue wasn't really the total money in the deal, it was the poison pill 3rd year. It's the same reason why we didn't keep Asik. Asik isn't worth 15M. Neither is Lin. Factor in the luxury tax penalty that would be paid that 3rd year and it's not really hard to see why they made that decision. If they could've averaged out the deal like the Rockets could so that it was around 8M a year, I think Lin would've been kept for sure and Asik might have been as well...maybe. No one here cared that Asik was let go for financial reasons because Asik was just a backup here. Lin was a clear starter and was maybe almost as important to that team as Melo and Amare in a way. That's why fans were upset.

Paxson has made his mistakes as a GM (Ben Wallace signing, drafting Tyrus Thomas, etc), but overall he was at least decent. Isaiah Thomas was just a terrible GM in every aspect. It's Dolan's fault for letting Thomas run wild like he did, but like I said, I'd rather have an owner like him paired with a good GM than Reinsdorf paired with a good GM because Dolan would let the GM spend more on talent. I think a GM like Gar could make this team a lot better if he could go into the tax.

Absolutely not the reason the Knicks didn't sign Lin...Dolan was upset with Lin over something petty. That was my point. He didn't sign Lin because of a grudge he held. He might be right in the long run. We will see.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Absolutely not the reason the Knicks didn't sign Lin...Dolan was upset with Lin over something petty. That was my point. He didn't sign Lin because of a grudge he held. He might be right in the long run. We will see.

Really...? I never saw that anywhere. Well that changes things if that's the case.

 

[97Bulls]

When has Krause made ANYTHING known?

He made known he didn't want the Bulls dynasty anymore.

 

[nwfisch]

He made known he didn't want the Bulls dynasty anymore.

And how is that Reinsdorf's fault for being cheap?

Gee if Reinsdorf was that set on making a profit, he would have dumped salary every year, no?

He would have traded Pippen for a rookie McGrady.

 

[DaBearsrule4ever]

He made known he didn't want the Bulls dynasty anymore.

In all fairness, when that Bulls dynasty was broken up, that team was aging. I was only 13 when that team was broken up but the more I think about it years later, the more it makes sense.