Polian on the cost of JG today

[bearmick]

From what I've seen from jimmy g, I think he's going to be an elite qb in this league.

That being said, it would be a tough pill to swallow to give up our third pick.

Also, I'm not as big of a fan of Allen as so many seem to be. One could make the same argument for him that he is a product of playing in a strong system and extremely talented defense that inflated his numbers. Again, I could be wrong but I see a lot of Bullard in his play. A lot of the sacks that I've seen were a product of taking advantage of a flushed qb in his direction. His run defense is legit though. The o-line players in the NFL are much better than college.

If it were guaranteed that jimmy g was the next top tier level qb, a Third pick would be a bargain but nothing is guaranteed

If Pace feels the same way you do, I hope he does give up the pick, or whatever it takes. I want him to take a swing on the guy he feels will be the best. It doesn't matter that I don't think that guy is Jimmy; if Pace does, go for it.

But FFS do go for it.

 

[Bearly]

Except that he was coached by the best coaching staff in the NFL for the last 3 years. Having the right coaches in place to develop players is a huge deal.. He has been developed by the best of the best.

Well, so was every other NE cast off and Flynn under Rodgers or Osweiller under Manning and those QB gurus. I have no problem with those that like the idea of JHimmy but I hate that argument. If the response is, 'but JG is better.', then, right or wrong, that's a different and appropriate argument.

 

[Enasic]

How do you know how much he likes him? He's trying to trade the guy; of course he's going to be talking about him in the press like he's the next Brady. He wants as much for him as he can get.

Aside from that, he has to trade JG. Brady has shown absolutely zero signs of decline whatsoever and wants to play for at least another five years. Jimmy isn't going to spend his entire career on a bench.

Also, Jimmy was the 62nd pick in the 2014 draft. It's not like he's getting rid of the first overall pick. If he were to take Pace's #3 for Jimmy and draft Watson/Kizer/Trubisky (if he likes any of them more than the others), he would essentially using the pick to buy himself the rest of Brady's career and not have to lose the heir apparent from his roster (I would argue that it's also an upgrade, but it's fine if you disagree).

What do you think is more important to BB, getting to keep the heir apparent in place, or drafting Jonathon Allen? I would bet major coin it's option A.

I would expect a lot more from the best mind in football history than to trade a capable QB with 1 more year left on his contract, while he also has another capable backup (Brissett), and take such a huge reach on one of the top 3 QBs in this class....they all need work and they won't contribute for a while. Especially on the Pats. BB and Brady probably will retire together....I'd imagine they'd want a player who can help them win now...not 3 years from now when they're both gone. Throwing in Jonathan Allen was a nice touch....I didn't know he was the only prospect available at #3.....and even if he were....Allen would certainly help BB and the Pats while he's still coaching, much more than these QB projects.

Edit: I've made my point and I'm moving on in regards to this topic. Pace isn't stupid enough to trade the #3 for JG anyways.

 

[satchice]

I don't think he's going to get a blockbuster contract, but there will be an extension as part of the trade. There's no way Jimmy is going to play for peanuts and gamble on his health for the last year at the back end of a meager rookie contract, and no way a team is going to give up valuable draft capital for a player on a one-year rental and then get have to massively overpay or let him hit the FA market.

There's just no way the trade happens without an extension being part of the deal. Business isn't done that way in the NFL.

What kind of a contract do you think he is going to sign? IF you are Jimmy, would you sign anything less then $80mil? No way his agent would let him sign anything fir less then 15 per. No matter what he is going to sign a big contract or wait till he hits FA. The PATS can not force him to sign some 4 year 50MIL contract so he is easier for them to trade that is just CRAZY!

I think minimum he signs is 4 year 75 Mil, weather he signs before you trade or after you trade wouldn't you rather see him in camp before he signs it??

What befit does a team have to trade him with a big contract in place? Again he is not going to sign a long term backup contract deal just to help the PATS make the trade.

If he is playing at a high level in your system, then why wouldn't he want to sign a long term contract? He smart enough to know he is signing long term or getting tagged..

Trade a draft pick for him is a gamble.. But I can see why some teams might want to take the gamble.. BUT what you want the team to do is double down on the unproven player.. that is just CRAZY!

 

[Warrior Spirit]

Man, it's gonna suck giving up the #3 pick. The Bears worked so hard to get it.

I have a feeling Fox can inspire his players to get more top 5 picks.

 

[bearmick]

Edit: I've made my point and I'm moving on

Your point is based on assumptions, including the assumption that BB is retiring in three years.

 

[bearmick]

What kind of a contract do you think he is going to sign?

I would expect they'll look at other deals like Osweiler's as a starting point and negotiate from there.

 

[Enasic]

Your point is based on assumptions, including the assumption that BB is retiring in three years.

And what is your point based on exactly? Do you even have one?

 

[dbldrew]

So was Matt Cassel, and Ryan Mallett. That in itself doesn't prove anything. There is no history of QBs who developed in that system being good when they leave it and play elsewhere.

LOL except the history of Matt Cassel and Ryan Mallett having there best years statistically after they left the patriots.

 

[dbldrew]

Well, so was every other NE cast off and Flynn under Rodgers or Osweiller under Manning and those QB gurus. I have no problem with those that like the idea of JHimmy but I hate that argument. If the response is, 'but JG is better.', then, right or wrong, that's a different and appropriate argument.

Im talking about coaching staff not backing up all time great Qbs.

 

[satchice]

I would expect they'll look at other deals like Osweiler's as a starting point and negotiate from there.

Okay perfect, lets assume he takes a contact like Osweiler's deal.. 4 year $80 MIL, $40 Fully guaranteed, $15up front (OZ's 74 / 37 / 12)
2017 13 Mil cap
2018 21 Mil Cap Dead money 28MIll
2019 23 Mil Cap Dead money 9MIL
2020 22 Mil Cap Dead money 6MIL

You can not cut the guy for at least 2-3 years. You are trading for Jimmy to be the starter not a guy to bring in for competition or to develop he is already 25.
On August 30th you might find out this guy cant beat out Matt Barkley for 3rd string QB, but you have to keep him now that you already gave the contact to him.

If he will sign the contract before the trade why would he not sign the contract after training camp? why would you want to the contract in place first??

 

[didshereallysaythat]

Why would Jimmy get a contract as rich as Osweiler? Brock played in a half a season of games for Denver and did very well at the time. He was more proven going into the contract than Jimmy is.

 

[WindyCity]

Why would Jimmy get a contract as rich as Osweiler? Brock played in a half a season of games for Denver and did very well at the time. He was more proven going into the contract than Jimmy is.

Going rate for QBs.

Osweilers deal was stupid, but even stupid deals set markets.

 

[WindyCity]

I offer them 2(36) and maybe an additional mid round pick.

If they say no I lock in on Trubisky and Watson.

 

[bearmick]

LOL except the history of Matt Cassel and Ryan Mallett having there best years statistically after they left the patriots.

They still weren't franchise qbs. That's not to say Jimmy necessarily isn't, but if he is it's because he's just that good, not because he's been sitting on the bench at Gillette.

 

[didshereallysaythat]

Going rate for QBs.

Osweilers deal was stupid, but even stupid deals set markets.

But wouldn't that be the market if Jimmy actually played half a season? Not 1.5 games. Shouldn't he be considered LESS than the market for Osweiler?

 

[bearmick]

But wouldn't that be the market if Jimmy actually played half a season? Not 1.5 games. Shouldn't he be considered LESS than the market for Osweiler?

You aren't paying for what they've done on a pro rated game basis, you're paying for who they're expected to be. Jimmy's profile right now is that of the top veteran available and he'll be paid as a veteran starter even if he doesn't have the body of work.

 

[satchice]

Why would Jimmy get a contract as rich as Osweiler? Brock played in a half a season of games for Denver and did very well at the time. He was more proven going into the contract than Jimmy is.

If he came in and played as well as McCown or Hoyer in recent years then he could demand what ever he wanted. so the Osweiler contract is the minimum he would take. That is market value. The Bears have a good Oline, if they sign Alshon they have a good Receiving core, and a good young back. Plus a better then average defense on the upraise. All he has to do is keep healthy and take care of the football.

 

[didshereallysaythat]

You aren't paying for what they've done on a pro rated game basis, you're paying for who they're expected to be. Jimmy's profile right now is that of the top veteran available and he'll be paid as a veteran starter even if he doesn't have the body of work.

Why is his profile higher than AJ McCarron? It's like he is extra hyped up because he was on New England. Like there is this fairy dust bullshit people are believing.

 

[bearmick]

Why is his profile higher than AJ McCarron?

He was a 2nd round pick who was high profile from the get go because he was considered to be Brady's heir.

McCarron was a 5th round pick who backs up an average starter.