Rizzogasm Thread

[dabynsky]

Jackson going to have alot of K's cause he works counts like crazy. He goes deep into counts basically every AB. Why he K's and walks alot. He also on pace to have another 20/20 year in minors. If he has 20/20 in MLB like he has every year in minors then K's will be handled cause he walks alot. Thats his only downfall is the K's but if he starts swinging earlier then fans be bitching he dont take walks. So to say he hit .150 is a joke. He will prolly be around .250 hitter .350+ OBP with power and speed. So he auto upgrade over all 3 OF spots. Again if team going to be this bad i rather lose with kids then watching all these vets just suck every day

Given that he has just now got his BA over .250 in AAA, I think it is premature to pencil him in for .250 this year which is what we've been talking about.

 

[nwfisch]

Jackson not a young prospect anymore. He is 23 almost 24. He basically putting up the same numbers in every level. So you can kind of guess what he going to be. He be a .250-.260, .350-370 OBP 20 HR, 20+ SB guy. That is a very good starting OF. He basically DeJesus but with HR and SB. DeJesus only has OBP. Again if your going to lose 100+ games, you do it with youth. Not old shitty vets. Some guys take 2-3 yrs to learn in MLB. So do that now while the team sucks. Not in 2 yrs + when team needs to be winning

I get that you want to see the kids, but if the kids aren't ready (Jackson is still a kid even at 24) and you believe Jackson is the OF for the next decade, I'd rather have him mash AAA for another year or two before bringing him up.

 

[daddies3angels]

I understand that Jackson is going to K a lot. That's not the point here. The point is that Jackson is clearly far from ready at this time. To bring him up now would be a terrible mistake. Yet, it seem like the majority of the team's fanbase wants him up right now just to satisfy their desire to see progress at the MLB level... because they don't pay attention to what's going on in the minors.

If Jackson were to be called up right now... he'd have similar results to what Rizzo did last year in his callup with SD. If you don't think there's a scouting book out there based around his struggles at AAA right now, you're fooling yourself. What he'll do in 2-3 years' time is different form what he'd do right now, though, if he's allowed to fully develop.

Far from ready? S0 your saying 2-3 yrs down the road. That makes him 26-27. Thats not a young player anymore. You bring him up now or very soon to let him get his struggles out. Let him learn to hit MLB pitching. Then in 2-3 yrs when they suppose to be winning he can be a part of the winning team.

Brett Jackson Minor League Statistics & History - Baseball-Reference.com

He only 1 month away from being 24. We know what he can do in minors. He is a 20/20 with good OBP. Lets see what he can do in Majors now.

 

[daddies3angels]

Comes to a point where you just have to bring up the kids and see what you got. Letting them rip up AAA over and over and over and over does nothing to help your MLB club. How you see what you have to build around is letting these kids play everday against MLB pitching. Im not saying bring up 18,19,20, 21, or even 22. But once they 23+ its time.

 

[daddies3angels]

Given that he has just now got his BA over .250 in AAA, I think it is premature to pencil him in for .250 this year which is what we've been talking about.

He around .260 now. DeJesus is a .250 hitter and you love him cause he gets OBP. Guess what so does Jackson but also with power and speed. DeJesus doesnt do 1/4th of power or speed that Jackson can

 

[nwfisch]

Comes to a point where you just have to bring up the kids and see what you got. Letting them rip up AAA over and over and over and over does nothing to help your MLB club. How you see what you have to build around is letting these kids play everday against MLB pitching. Im not saying bring up 18,19,20, 21, or even 22. But once they 23+ its time.

He's not ripping up AAA when he's hitting 250, no offense.

 

[2SeamHeat]

Jackson not a young prospect anymore. He is 23 almost 24. He basically putting up the same numbers in every level. So you can kind of guess what he going to be. He be a .250-.260, .350-370 OBP 20 HR, 20+ SB guy. That is a very good starting OF. He basically DeJesus but with HR and SB. DeJesus only has OBP. Again if your going to lose 100+ games, you do it with youth. Not old shitty vets. Some guys take 2-3 yrs to learn in MLB. So do that now while the team sucks. Not in 2 yrs + when team needs to be winning

Actually, this is quite inaccurate. First, Jackson hit in the .295-330 range in the lowest levels... then failed to hit really all that well at all in AA. He wound up turning it on quite well last year in AAA, but he's struggling mightily now there.

There's a difference between hitting .300 or so while striking out about every 4th AB in the lower levels where pitchers are learning their trade... then there is hitting around .260 and striking out almost every other AB against a mix of top prospects and emergency veterans. Jackson is facing more breaking stuff now than he ever has before... and he's learning to deal with it. If you think his struggles in Iowa are bad... wait until he sees MLB level breaking and off-speed stuff.

Then again, the same people who seem to be clamoring for rushing the prospects... are the same people who, more often than not, will cite how Patterson, Brown, etc flopped as an argument against the franchise's ability to develop positional players. We've seen Castro rake since being rushed... but look at the defensive issues he's had. THAT was the reason he was still at AA when he was called up. He had to polish his defensive game and learn patience at the plate. He's managed to develop the defensive game to a point so far... but at this point, I doubt he ever learns to take a walk at a worthwhile pace.

Call Jackson up now... and you ruin him. He won't hit. He will struggle just to make contact... then get sent back down again... to struggle there. This isn't the same situation as Rizzo last year, as Rizzo was murdering AAA before he got called up. Jackson will lose any and all confidence he has right now... and will flop hard due to that.

 

[dabynsky]

He around .260 now. DeJesus is a .250 hitter and you love him cause he gets OBP. Guess what so does Jackson but also with power and speed. DeJesus doesnt do 1/4th of power or speed that Jackson can

Right I love what DeJesus is doing at the major league level and I doubt that Jackson can transfer that to the major league now. Jackson is hitting 10 points higher against much weaker competition.

A different perspective on "MLB ready" prospects Rizzo, Jackson, Castillo, Lake and Vitters | Cubs Den

Check this article out D3A. I am not arguing that Jackson needs years in the minor leagues. I am just saying he still has stuff to prove at AAA right now unlike Rizzo.

 

[daddies3angels]

He's not ripping up AAA when he's hitting 250, no offense.

He also got 830+ OPS


He never going to have high BA. Do we think Dunn sucks cause he his .226? No. look at the other skills that Jackson does very well. Takes walks, hits for power, has speed to steal bases.

 

[daddies3angels]

Right I love what DeJesus is doing at the major league level and I doubt that Jackson can transfer that to the major league now. Jackson is hitting 10 points higher against much weaker competition.

A different perspective on "MLB ready" prospects Rizzo, Jackson, Castillo, Lake and Vitters | Cubs Den

Check this article out D3A. I am not arguing that Jackson needs years in the minor leagues. I am just saying he still has stuff to prove at AAA right now unlike Rizzo.

i read that earlier. I still think there a point where he going to be 24 y/o. He going to be what he going to be. Let him learn in the MLB. I know some people bring up Pie and Patterson. Do people really think they would have been different type of players if they were left in AAA a bit longer? I dont. They were going to be what they were going to be. Either you can hit MLB or you cant. Were not going to know what he can do till he up playing at MLB level. Why the team sucks let the kids learn.

 

[2SeamHeat]

He around .260 now. DeJesus is a .250 hitter and you love him cause he gets OBP. Guess what so does Jackson but also with power and speed. DeJesus doesnt do 1/4th of power or speed that Jackson can

And.... there's no difference between MLB and AAA pitching? No difference between a .338 OBP and a .366 OBP? No difference between 46 Ks facing MLB pitchers (at about a 1/5 clip) and 104 Ks facing AAA pitchers (at about a near 1/2 clip)?

Age doesn't and shouldn't factor into when a prospect is ready, especially when most college draftees don't make it to the majors until they are 24-25 these days. What should matter is that prospect proving he's ready. Jackson doesn't even look like he should be in AAA right now due to his K-rate.

 

[daddies3angels]

And.... there's no difference between MLB and AAA pitching? No difference between a .338 OBP and a .366 OBP? No difference between 46 Ks facing MLB pitchers (at about a 1/5 clip) and 104 Ks facing AAA pitchers (at about a near 1/2 clip)?

Age doesn't and shouldn't factor into when a prospect is ready, especially when most college draftees don't make it to the majors until they are 24-25 these days. What should matter is that prospect proving he's ready. Jackson doesn't even look like he should be in AAA right now due to his K-rate.

Besides his K-rate all other numbers show he ready. Castro has 1 flaw and thats not taking walks. So we should let him learn this in the minors? While the team sucks and really sucks let the kids learn in the MLB so in 2-3 yrs you know who are keepers and guys that wont help. Honestly there a very good chance Jackson would have better OBP, more HR, same amount of SB as Castro in the MLB. But Cubs should keep him in AAA cause of 1 stat. Its time to let the kids play now while the team is suppose to suck for the next 2-3 yrs. Also on the DeJesus part he could only dream of being a 20/20 guy. Jackson has a very good shot of doing it

 

[dabynsky]

Besides his K-rate all other numbers show he ready. Castro has 1 flaw and thats not taking walks. So we should let him learn this in the minors? While the team sucks and really sucks let the kids learn in the MLB so in 2-3 yrs you know who are keepers and guys that wont help. Honestly there a very good chance Jackson would have better OBP, more HR, same amount of SB as Castro in the MLB. But Cubs should keep him in AAA cause of 1 stat. Its time to let the kids play now while the team is suppose to suck for the next 2-3 yrs.

The fact that he has serious issues with contact isn't going to go away by just promoting him. They will only be maginified. You act as if Jackson has nothing to prove, but his OPS is only slightly above the league average in the very hitter friendly PCL. Jackson will be here, but he has to work on some things before the Cubs ought to bring him up.

And there is a pretty solid argument that the Cubs rushed Castro and that he could have used some extra time in the minors. Thankfully he is so talented that he made up for that, but Jackson lacks the eye popping athletic tools of a Castro.

 

[daddies3angels]

The fact that he has serious issues with contact isn't going to go away by just promoting him. They will only be maginified. You act as if Jackson has nothing to prove, but his OPS is only slightly above the league average in the very hitter friendly PCL. Jackson will be here, but he has to work on some things before the Cubs ought to bring him up.

And there is a pretty solid argument that the Cubs rushed Castro and that he could have used some extra time in the minors. Thankfully he is so talented that he made up for that, but Jackson lacks the eye popping athletic tools of a Castro.

I agree his contact issues wont go away. I also dont think keeping him in AAA for 1 yr + going to fix them either. Ask any scout they say he not going to hit for high avg but he will do other things above avg. OBP, Power, Speed, and from what i hear he above avg DEF OF. Again while your MLB team is so bad let the kids learn at the big league level. Again if Jackson was a young and i mean young spec then its different story. But he will be 24 in 1 month. Thats not exactly a young pup

 

[dabynsky]

I agree his contact issues wont go away. I also dont think keeping him in AAA for 1 yr + going to fix them either. Ask any scout they say he not going to hit for high avg but he will do other things above avg. OBP, Power, Speed, and from what i hear he above avg DEF OF. Again while your MLB team is so bad let the kids learn at the big league level. Again if Jackson was a young and i mean young spec then its different story. But he will be 24 in 1 month. Thats not exactly a young pup

I guess this is the difference that I see. I agree that if he is still down in AAA at age 26 that is a problem, but because he is about to be 24 doesn't mean they have to get him to the majors right now. Let him play down in AAA where he has to work on things. If he is hitting like this, he gets a September callup. If he pours it on like Rizzo, he gets called up sooner.

 

[daddies3angels]

I guess this is the difference that I see. I agree that if he is still down in AAA at age 26 that is a problem, but because he is about to be 24 doesn't mean they have to get him to the majors right now. Let him play down in AAA where he has to work on things. If he is hitting like this, he gets a September callup. If he pours it on like Rizzo, he gets called up sooner.

Actually Cubs dont have to give him Sept callup either cause he not on 40 man roster

 

[Rice Cube]

Actually Cubs dont have to give him Sept callup either cause he not on 40 man roster

I'm sure if they wanted to they could do some roster moves to bring him up. Iowa is probably not going to the playoffs and Jackson needs something to do instead of just going fishing.

 

[dabynsky]

I never said they had to, but I would guess he does once the Iowa season is done.

 

[Rice Cube]

They're not going to risk screwing up the guy's development or messing up his confidence by bringing him up while he's in the midst of an insane slump. They also cannot justify playing him over the OFs already on the MLB roster right now. They will have to trade at least Soriano and probably DeJesus as well before they call Jackson up. If he can figure it out soon after Rizzo is called up I think he could probably come up in August but that really depends on him and not the Cubs.

 

[2SeamHeat]

Look, Jackson's simply not ready. If he can't make consistent contact in AAA, he's not going to do so at the MLB level, Yes, this can be improved. It can be improved through experience and coaching. While he may not be ready right now... there is still half of this season remaining, and he is improving right now. He could very well end up showing signs that he's ready come September. He could go into next ST and win the job by proving he's ready. 3 months is forever when it comes to development.

I say give him the rest of this season at Iowa, along with Vitters who is looking more and more like he's getting close to ready. Let them both play winter ball. Then let's see where they are when camp opens up in February. Another year (from now) in Iowa won't hurt them, and it really won't set the team back either.