Rizzogasm Thread

[2SeamHeat]

I think that's probably what they are weighing now. If they try to avoid Super Two he might as well be a September call-up and that's not good for his development really. I think they could probably get two months' worth of assessment out of him if they called him up against Atlanta instead of against the Mets at Wrigley. That has the advantage of having him debut away from Wrigley and the meatheads, and still giving him plenty of time to show that he has it before rosters expand.

The problem is, you still have to play the PR thing... especially with the drones that make up 65% of the fans that attend games in Wrigley. Hendry got a lot negative blow back for debuting Castro on the road. That was a move made out of desperate necessity, as Fontenot was sucking ass at 2B and the team was doing essentially nothing offensively. This move isn't being made in the same manner. The fans are clamoring for him so bad, that if he's not up soon, there'll be rioting in Wrigleyville! Thus, I seriously doubt they will debut Rizzo on the road... if only to feed the fans something other than Bryan LaHair this season.

 

[dabynsky]

I will seriously lose a lot of faith in Theo/Jed if fan reaction is weighing the slighest bit in the decision making. Make the right call to build a winning organization and the fans will be there. Tourists will show up enough to keep the franchise in the black til then.

 

[2SeamHeat]

It's not even that, it is just that he has to be up now, and no sense sending him from Iowa to Arizona when we can wait a day and give him an easier flight from Iowa to Chicago, but not play him against Santana.

That's pretty much how I see it. Rizzo has done what Rizzo will do at AAA. I just don't see him progressing much more in his development down there at this point. He needs to face big league pitching and pressures. Now, I don't think there's much of a difference between calling him up today or two weeks from now in that regard... However, I'm thinking the sooner he is up the better in terms of his development.

Though, I can also see the reasoning behind holding him down until Super 2 is avoided. This team can become competitive very suddenly with just 3-4 well-reasoned FA signings. Castro is already a Super 2, and will cost the team a lot of cash earlier than he should... and a lot more overall. I suspect he'll get a 5-6 year extension after this season to buyout his arbitration years. They are also facing the same thing with Garza. To add one more time bomb issue like that to the payroll may make the long term look on signing FAs a lot more difficult to pull off.

 

[waldo7239117]

Here's the line-up I would put out there with probably starters:

1) CF David DeJesus
2) SS Starlin Castro
3) 1B Anthony Rizzo
4) LF Alfonso Soriano
5) RF Brain LaHair
6) C Geovany Soto
7) 3B Luis Valbuena
8) 2B Darwin Barney
9) P Randy Wells

**I think there's a good chance, Barney would bad 7th and Valbuena will bat 8th. But other than that, this is the lien-up I would put out there there. Also, Rizzo could bat 5th and LaHair 3rd, but I wouldn't do that.

 

[Rice Cube]

The problem is, you still have to play the PR thing... especially with the drones that make up 65% of the fans that attend games in Wrigley. Hendry got a lot negative blow back for debuting Castro on the road. That was a move made out of desperate necessity, as Fontenot was sucking ass at 2B and the team was doing essentially nothing offensively. This move isn't being made in the same manner. The fans are clamoring for him so bad, that if he's not up soon, there'll be rioting in Wrigleyville! Thus, I seriously doubt they will debut Rizzo on the road... if only to feed the fans something other than Bryan LaHair this season.

I think they understand the PR thing and I think if he is called up, it's because he has nothing left to prove in AAA, they already have the $$ set aside to pay him his extra arbitration salary, and they need the extra month to properly assess him. I'd be okay with that. I doubt he sells that many more tickets but the development part of it is important.

 

[2SeamHeat]

if you think he brings back a teams farm you are crazy.

His trade value is tangent upon whether the acquiring team feels he can be extended or not. If he's only a 2-3 month rental, then he might bring a worthwhile prospect and one other blah prospect. If the other team feels they can extend him... he'll land two high-rate prospects and one or two medium prospects.

 

[Rice Cube]

His trade value is tangent upon whether the acquiring team feels he can be extended or not. If he's only a 2-3 month rental, then he might bring a worthwhile prospect and one other blah prospect. If the other team feels they can extend him... he'll land two high-rate prospects and one or two medium prospects.

I forgot who we were talking about :lol: I assume it's not Rizzo.

 

[2SeamHeat]

I forgot who we were talking about :lol: I assume it's not Rizzo.

Oh I was catching up on the earlier stuff regarding Greinke.

 

[Rice Cube]

Oh I was catching up on the earlier stuff regarding Greinke.

Ah. Considering what the Brewers gave up to get Greinke I think they'd expect a package that's about equal if they traded him now. It won't be as lucrative but it should still be good. The issue is that he's an impending free agent rather than under team control and the new CBA prevents the new team from getting a pick if not extended but I assume that's been covered already.

 

[dabynsky]

Ah. Considering what the Brewers gave up to get Greinke I think they'd expect a package that's about equal if they traded him now. It won't be as lucrative but it should still be good. The issue is that he's an impending free agent rather than under team control and the new CBA prevents the new team from getting a pick if not extended but I assume that's been covered already.

It has and the counter to the thinking that teams will give up nothing for impending FA that are still productive is that the original team will just keep them for compensation pick.

 

[nwfisch]

If Rizzo isn't at the game next Sunday, Wrigley's getting burned.

 

[2SeamHeat]

I will seriously lose a lot of faith in Theo/Jed if fan reaction is weighing the slighest bit in the decision making. Make the right call to build a winning organization and the fans will be there. Tourists will show up enough to keep the franchise in the black til then.

Well, you've got a team with waning ticket sales, TV viewers, and radio listeners. That's trouble, especially for an organization that's never really had this issue no matter how bad the team was. There's already an outcry that the FO screwed fans over in pockets here and there. Some morons are already calling for Epstein and Hoyer's heads... as well as Sveum. For a team that has little to nothing to offer right now... you have to do something to feed the fanbase and keep them interested enough to attend and view games. This is how the revenue comes in. Right now, that focus is all being placed upon the arrival of Rizzo.

While to me it doesn't matter where he plays his first game in a Cubs' uni... or even when it happens this year. I'm also not the typical Cub fan that seems to have no idea what's going on unless the Chicago media tells them. There are idiots all over the place clamoring for Jackson to come up right now... so that he can hit .150 with a 3/4 K-rate! But, Epstein is screwing them personally because Soriano, Soto, DeJesus, Marmol, etc haven't been traded for gold... and Jackson, Rizzo, and Clevenger aren't playing everyday to all be All Stars and share the RoY prize this year.

 

[dabynsky]

Well, you've got a team with waning ticket sales, TV viewers, and radio listeners. That's trouble, especially for an organization that's never really had this issue no matter how bad the team was. There's already an outcry that the FO screwed fans over in pockets here and there. Some morons are already calling for Epstein and Hoyer's heads... as well as Sveum. For a team that has little to nothing to offer right now... you have to do something to feed the fanbase and keep them interested enough to attend and view games. This is how the revenue comes in. Right now, that focus is all being placed upon the arrival of Rizzo.

While to me it doesn't matter where he plays his first game in a Cubs' uni... or even when it happens this year. I'm also not the typical Cub fan that seems to have no idea what's going on unless the Chicago media tells them. There are idiots all over the place clamoring for Jackson to come up right now... so that he can hit .150 with a 3/4 K-rate! But, Epstein is screwing them personally because Soriano, Soto, DeJesus, Marmol, etc haven't been traded for gold... and Jackson, Rizzo, and Clevenger aren't playing everyday to all be All Stars and share the RoY prize this year.

The fans will be back the moment this team is winning. Handling Rizzo correctly is the quickest path to that. Ergo, I seriously hope that fan reaction has zero input into the decision Theo/Jed make.

 

[Jntg4]

Here's the line-up I would put out there with probably starters:

1) CF David DeJesus
2) SS Starlin Castro
3) 1B Anthony Rizzo
4) LF Alfonso Soriano
5) RF Brain LaHair
6) C Geovany Soto
7) 3B Luis Valbuena
8) 2B Darwin Barney
9) P Randy Wells

**I think there's a good chance, Barney would bad 7th and Valbuena will bat 8th. But other than that, this is the lien-up I would put out there there. Also, Rizzo could bat 5th and LaHair 3rd, but I wouldn't do that.

lol, Brain LaHair (not complaining about spelling, but it was a misspelling of Bryan that I never had seen before)

 

[2SeamHeat]

Ah. Considering what the Brewers gave up to get Greinke I think they'd expect a package that's about equal if they traded him now. It won't be as lucrative but it should still be good. The issue is that he's an impending free agent rather than under team control and the new CBA prevents the new team from getting a pick if not extended but I assume that's been covered already.

Well, partial season rentals don't typically bring in the same haul as when a team trades for him with still 2 years of control. Typically when a team does overpay like that, they are either absolutely desperate to keep up with another team (Sabathia to Milwaukee in 2008... because the Cubs got Harden from Oakland), or because they believe they can extend him quite easily (Erik Bedard to Seattle).

So, I think a lot of Greinke's value will be tangent on whether or not the receiving team thinks they can extend him... as I don't see a lot of desperation out there yet.

 

[daddies3angels]

Well, you've got a team with waning ticket sales, TV viewers, and radio listeners. That's trouble, especially for an organization that's never really had this issue no matter how bad the team was. There's already an outcry that the FO screwed fans over in pockets here and there. Some morons are already calling for Epstein and Hoyer's heads... as well as Sveum. For a team that has little to nothing to offer right now... you have to do something to feed the fanbase and keep them interested enough to attend and view games. This is how the revenue comes in. Right now, that focus is all being placed upon the arrival of Rizzo.

While to me it doesn't matter where he plays his first game in a Cubs' uni... or even when it happens this year. I'm also not the typical Cub fan that seems to have no idea what's going on unless the Chicago media tells them. There are idiots all over the place clamoring for Jackson to come up right now... so that he can hit .150 with a 3/4 K-rate! But, Epstein is screwing them personally because Soriano, Soto, DeJesus, Marmol, etc haven't been traded for gold... and Jackson, Rizzo, and Clevenger aren't playing everyday to all be All Stars and share the RoY prize this year.

Jackson going to have alot of K's cause he works counts like crazy. He goes deep into counts basically every AB. Why he K's and walks alot. He also on pace to have another 20/20 year in minors. If he has 20/20 in MLB like he has every year in minors then K's will be handled cause he walks alot. Thats his only downfall is the K's but if he starts swinging earlier then fans be bitching he dont take walks. So to say he hit .150 is a joke. He will prolly be around .250 hitter .350+ OBP with power and speed. So he auto upgrade over all 3 OF spots. Again if team going to be this bad i rather lose with kids then watching all these vets just suck every day

 

[nwfisch]

Jackson going to have alot of K's cause he works counts like crazy. He goes deep into counts basically every AB. Why he K's and walks alot. He also on pace to have another 20/20 year in minors. If he has 20/20 in MLB like he has every year in minors then K's will be handled cause he walks alot. Thats his only downfall is the K's but if he starts swinging earlier then fans be bitching he dont take walks. So to say he hit .150 is a joke. He will prolly be around .250 hitter .350+ OBP with power and speed. So he auto upgrade over all 3 OF spots. Again if team going to be this bad i rather lose with kids then watching all these vets just suck every day

What 2Seam's saying I think is that it does no good to call up Jackson now in 2012 just because he's one of the Cubs' better prospects, and risk stunting his development, or knocking off the face of the Earth a la Pie or Patterson.

 

[2SeamHeat]

Here's the line-up I would put out there with probably starters:

1) CF David DeJesus
2) SS Starlin Castro
3) 1B Anthony Rizzo
4) LF Alfonso Soriano
5) RF Brain LaHair
6) C Geovany Soto
7) 3B Luis Valbuena
8) 2B Darwin Barney
9) P Randy Wells

**I think there's a good chance, Barney would bad 7th and Valbuena will bat 8th. But other than that, this is the lien-up I would put out there there. Also, Rizzo could bat 5th and LaHair 3rd, but I wouldn't do that.

I'd swap Rizzo and LaHair, and Barney and Valbuena. I think having Barney ahead of Valbuena makes better sense due to the fact that Valbuena has shown some run production ability... but not so much of the get on base ability as of yet.

 

[daddies3angels]

What 2Seam's saying I think is that it does no good to call up Jackson now in 2012 just because he's one of the Cubs' better prospects, and risk stunting his development, or knocking off the face of the Earth a la Pie or Patterson.

Jackson not a young prospect anymore. He is 23 almost 24. He basically putting up the same numbers in every level. So you can kind of guess what he going to be. He be a .250-.260, .350-370 OBP 20 HR, 20+ SB guy. That is a very good starting OF. He basically DeJesus but with HR and SB. DeJesus only has OBP. Again if your going to lose 100+ games, you do it with youth. Not old shitty vets. Some guys take 2-3 yrs to learn in MLB. So do that now while the team sucks. Not in 2 yrs + when team needs to be winning

 

[2SeamHeat]

Jackson going to have alot of K's cause he works counts like crazy. He goes deep into counts basically every AB. Why he K's and walks alot. He also on pace to have another 20/20 year in minors. If he has 20/20 in MLB like he has every year in minors then K's will be handled cause he walks alot. Thats his only downfall is the K's but if he starts swinging earlier then fans be bitching he dont take walks. So to say he hit .150 is a joke. He will prolly be around .250 hitter .350+ OBP with power and speed. So he auto upgrade over all 3 OF spots. Again if team going to be this bad i rather lose with kids then watching all these vets just suck every day

I understand that Jackson is going to K a lot. That's not the point here. The point is that Jackson is clearly far from ready at this time. To bring him up now would be a terrible mistake. Yet, it seem like the majority of the team's fanbase wants him up right now just to satisfy their desire to see progress at the MLB level... because they don't pay attention to what's going on in the minors.

If Jackson were to be called up right now... he'd have similar results to what Rizzo did last year in his callup with SD. If you don't think there's a scouting book out there based around his struggles at AAA right now, you're fooling yourself. What he'll do in 2-3 years' time is different form what he'd do right now, though, if he's allowed to fully develop.