Rose is waking up!

[Gustavus Adolphus]

How can you say that all Butler brings to the table is post-ups and isos and you would be fine trading him. The guy is an all-star two years in a row. He is considered one to the best ten players in the game and can play two position and play them well (SG and SG) And he is improving his ball handling ability to boot and his out-side shooting. He also might be the best one-on-one defender in the league. He is special.

Butler also called out Freddie Hoiberg and it was warranted. Leaders sometimes do it. This happened when Thibs was here when Noah and Gibson criticized him.

I just find is funny that the Bulls win two games against two very weak teams and all of a sudden Hoiberg is suddenly the MAN for the Bulls.

Hoiberg is your guy and that is fine. I do not agree with that but I do not blame Hoiberg for this unbalanced not contending team. That problem is Reiny and Gar/Pax along with big losses to the scouting guru and a fine assistant coach and coach which is the aforementioned three stooges fault.

Kobe was an all-star this year. Kobe Bryant. All-star selections really don't mean anything. Also: please provide the list that places Butler in the top 10.

 

[houheffna]

Jordan did not have much talent around him when Collins was there. Krause brought in the pieces like Pippin, Grant, Harper and the rest. Bringing Rodman in was also genius on his part. And it was Jordan who wanted Collins out.

I also have not diminished Jackson at all. He did get Jordan to buy into the system. Phil was a great coach but the triangle offense was just a piece of their success. It was the over-all coaching of Phil Jackson and the TALENT that Krause brought it that brought all of those championship to Chicago. WE will agree to disagree I guess

You are dead wrong about Jordan and Collins. Jordan tried to get KRAUSE fired...not Collins. You should find out why Collins was fired. It obviously isn't what you think.

And I guess you are having a hard time figuring out who is and who is not a point guard in the league...because you refuse to answer the question.

 

[nbafan23]

Krause is such a genius that his draft picks after Pippen and Grant in 87 were just remarkable pieces of talent.

 

[Axl Rose]

How can you say that all Butler brings to the table is post-ups and isos and you would be fine trading him. The guy is an all-star two years in a row. He is considered one to the best ten players in the game and can play two position and play them well (SG and SG) And he is improving his ball handling ability to boot and his out-side shooting. He also might be the best one-on-one defender in the league. He is special

im talking about on offense and I said IF thats all he brings to the table...you're the one that said Butler shouldn't make any adjustments to his offensive game....and what hes bringing to the table on that end is iso and postups

you're not winning anything with that style of play on offense especially with a non-superstar like Jimmy so yeah if he refuses to adjust trade him while his value is high

 

[Novak]

You don't think hoiboy is da MAN? I swear, EVERYONE here has been ready to crown him COTY

 

[nbafan23]

You don't think hoiboy is da MAN? I swear, EVERYONE here has been ready to crown him COTY

Well for me at least I didn't really want Hoiberg to be the HC. I wanted his head assistant who won 3 nba championships in 94, 95, and 2014 to be the one.

 

[Scoot26]

You don't think hoiboy is da MAN? I swear, EVERYONE here has been ready to crown him COTY

Who did?

Sent from the mod station in Nome, Alaska.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

The Hawk doesn't want people to equate Hoiberg to Phil, but he equated Butler to Jordan. Wat?!?!?!

Also, Jordan hated Doug Collins so much that he hired him in Washington. Wat?!?!?!

 

[Novak]

Who did?

Sent from the mod station in Nome, Alaska.

I was just reiterating hawk's point. He's a smart guy, I trust him.

 

[The Hawk]

Kobe was an all-star this year. Kobe Bryant. All-star selections really don't mean anything. Also: please provide the list that places Butler in the top 10.

Come-on, Gus. Kobe made the all-star team because it was his swan song, nothing else. As for Butler, all top ten lists are both subjective and objective. I thought that this discussion was a good one in that it brought Butler's defensive ability into the fore-front. I looked at others which discussed a metric that translates into a games won determination and places Butler in the top five in all of the NBA. This strongly supports defensive ability also when ratig NBA players.
www.msn.com/en-us/.../jimmy-butler-a-top-10-player/vp-AAgrnrV
MSN

 

[houheffna]

Come-on, Gus. Kobe made the all-star team because it was his swan song, nothing else. As for Butler, all top ten lists are both subjective and objective. I thought that this discussion was a good one in that it brought Butler's defensive ability into the fore-front. I looked at others which discussed a metric that translates into a games won determination and places Butler in the top five in all of the NBA. This strongly supports defensive ability also when ratig NBA players.
www.msn.com/en-us/.../jimmy-butler-a-top-10-player/vp-AAgrnrV
MSN

I can show you countless top ten rankings that list Rose as a point guard...

 

[nbafan23]

I can show you countless top ten rankings that list Rose as a point guard...

Hawk say Rose wasn't a point guard?

 

[houheffna]

Hawk say Rose wasn't a point guard?

yes...says Rose is a shooting guard. Only dude on the planet who thinks that. I live in Chicago...Rose is known for being unselfish and deferring to his teammates on the court going back to high school. He was trained in college by Rod Strickland, a prototype nba point guard. Don't understand the thinking so waiting on him to respond.

 

[Raskolnikov]

Rose has been a PG at every level. He always operates with the ball in his hands. A couple times this year he seemed to be getting minutes while resting and deferring to Moore as the PG. Or letting Jimmy do his thing.

For the vast majority of the minutes he is running the show. Is Lebron a PG? Was Jordan the PG?

Its all relative. To say Jordan was the SG and Kerr was the PG isn't quite right...it is about the play on the court and not the position. Rose in college = PG. Rose in past = PG. A couple times this year we have had others bring the ball up or run the offense.

But Rose is one of the PG's on this team. Come on Hawk. Post better, you can do it.

 

[The Hawk]

You are dead wrong about Jordan and Collins. Jordan tried to get KRAUSE fired...not Collins. You should find out why Collins was fired. It obviously isn't what you think.

And I guess you are having a hard time figuring out who is and who is not a point guard in the league...because you refuse to answer the question.

I know why Collins was fired and it is common knowledge. Collins was burning out Jordan, even playing him at the point in order to force Jordan to PASS THE BALL. Jordan back at that point didn't want to pass the basketball because he didn't have much talent in his teammates and trusted only himself to score. Jordan was also pissed because Collins ran Jordan's buddy and "protector", Charles Oakley, out of town which really pissed Jordan off.

So Jordan was pissed both at Krause and Collins while Collins was also going behind Krause's back directly to Reinny to get Krause fired. In essence, Reinny got rid of Collins to appease both Krause and Jordan. That is what happened.

As for the point guard question. I answered that with the Wiki definition of point guard. There are five players on the floor for one team at a given time. Historically the game evolved and the player who "ran" the offense was named the POINT GUARD. He was like the quarterback of the team and was charged with getting the ball to the right person to score a play at a time. THe other guard was typicall charged mostly with trying to score and less likely to set up someone else. This guy became named the SHOOTING GUARD.

My point is that these names are merely names because the game of basketball has further evolved into one where the definitions are less clear. Guys like Curry, Westbrook, Hardin and Rose do not fit what used to be the classic definition of point guard. They are score first pass second players. That is the truth of it. I am also saying that the Bulls could very much use a guy who has the prime responsibility of setting up the other players. That is my opinion. YOu can call Derrick Rose anykind of name that you want to as far as what position that he plays but mine is that he is a scoring guard. Same thing with Curry, Westbrook, and Hardin.

 

[Novak]

But Rose is one of the PG's on this team. Come on Hawk. Post better, you can do it.

Lol, no he can't.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Well gee let's go sign Chris Duhon then

 

[Scoot26]

Well gee let's go sign Chris Duhon then

What a fantastic idea.

Sent from the mod station in Nome, Alaska.

 

[houheffna]

I know why Collins was fired and it is common knowledge. Collins was burning out Jordan, even playing him at the point in order to force Jordan to PASS THE BALL. Jordan back at that point didn't want to pass the basketball because he didn't have much talent in his teammates and trusted only himself to score. Jordan was also pissed because Collins ran Jordan's buddy and "protector", Charles Oakley, out of town which really pissed Jordan off.

So Jordan was pissed both at Krause and Collins while Collins was also going behind Krause's back directly to Reinny to get Krause fired. In essence, Reinny got rid of Collins to appease both Krause and Jordan. That is what happened.

As for the point guard question. I answered that with the Wiki definition of point guard. There are five players on the floor for one team at a given time. Historically the game evolved and the player who "ran" the offense was named the POINT GUARD. He was like the quarterback of the team and was charged with getting the ball to the right person to score a play at a time. THe other guard was typicall charged mostly with trying to score and less likely to set up someone else. This guy became named the SHOOTING GUARD.

My point is that these names are merely names because the game of basketball has further evolved into one where the definitions are less clear. Guys like Curry, Westbrook, Hardin and Rose do not fit what used to be the classic definition of point guard. They are score first pass second players. That is the truth of it. I am also saying that the Bulls could very much use a guy who has the prime responsibility of setting up the other players. That is my opinion. YOu can call Derrick Rose anykind of name that you want to as far as what position that he plays but mine is that he is a scoring guard. Same thing with Curry, Westbrook, and Hardin.

Good job of doing a little research to figure out the real reason Collins was fired...and then ever so slightly trying to bend your theory into truth without people noticing. It didn't work but good job. That said, Butler and Jordan's situation are NOTHING ALIKE.

So was Rose a point guard when Ben Gordon was here? Did he stop being a pg when he became the best player on the team? How does that work exactly?

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

The word agenda used to mean the plural of agendum, which was a single item. Now an agenda is actually used as a singular noun, and plural is now called agendas. Even more recently, it is used in conjunction with other words that describes something with maybe a sinister such as; political agenda or homosexual agenda.

Point being, the meanings of words and phrases change over time. That Rose, Lillard, and Curry aren't giving perfect bounce passes to power forwards off a pick and roll doesn't make them any less of a point guard. Besides, the entire game has changed, and the ideas of pace/space offensive approaches (I.E. - the one the Bulls would like to run) doesn't lend itself to pigeon-hold players into traditional positional roles.

It wasn't too long ago that conventional wisdom said you needed a dominant center to win a title - well who was the last dominant center to win a title? Shaquille O'Neal in '06???