Rose is waking up!

[ChiSoxCity]

We have about four Robbins and no Batman. We need Batmans.

BTMFD and rebuild via the draft!

 

[GalePayton]

We have about four Robbins and no Batman. We need Batmans.

BTMFD and rebuild via the draft!

Both Rose and Jimmy are "Batmans".

 

[Axl Rose]

The great coaches are guys who will adjust their own offenses to the talent of the people on their team not the other way around.. It also easier to replace a coach than it is players. If I were Butler, I would not trade my offensive talents and compromise my abilities to some ideology of a rookie head coach if it hurt my effectiveness as a player. Butler is in the prime of his life and has worked his ass off to get what he has gotten. But beyond that, the needs of this team go way beyond what Rose and Butler are all about. The needs of this team are in making it into an up tempo group of players IF they decide to keep Hoiberg and that is a big damn IF.

So........ assuming that they keep Hoiberg and keep whatever his offense is all about then Gasol, Gibson, Snell, and a hobbled(if true) Noah need to go and they keep, Mirotic, Portis, McDermott, Rose, Butler, and Moore. That really is a pretty decent nucleus if you wish to rebuild in two years.

BUt this all presupposes that Hoiberg is the guy that you want to take control of this team and I have no confidence that he is. Nothing against him but how in the hell would you totally gut your team for a rookie head coach like Freddie?

again you're not winning anything on Jimmy postups and isos...so if thats all he brings to the table im fine with trading him. Hoiberg's ideology is not some obscure thing its very much inline with the current NBA

its actually something Jimmy could thrive in if he bought in

yes i'll take Hoiberg over most these guys. this team is done as a contender its no need to keep shoving this same group out that has 1 ECF appearance to their name in like 10 years...the NBA has passed these guys by

 

[cjswan232482]

Rose is not a natural point guard in my books. He is more a sanitized Iverson with less balls. Neither can run a team for a coach. Neither have the skills and/or mentality to run a team because both are score first guys and it is not in their mentality to facilitate an offense. Hoiball will never work with Gasol, Rose, and Butler. Square pegs in round holes.

Don't confused scoring ability with lack of point guard skills. Anybody would can get McDermott off for 30 pts is a point guard. Truth is until Butler Rose was the only guy who can get his shot. Rose is a shot creator for himself and others. Period.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Apparently Rose is much better going left than going right...go figure

https://theathletic.com/2016/02/23/left-is-right-for-a-more-efficient-derrick-rose/

 

[houheffna]

"Shown the door"? What makes you or anyone to believe that Rose knows how to run the offense? He sure as shit is not a good point guard. Far from it. Truth is that this team NEEDS a point guard with Butler returning back to his original position as a small forward. ANd as for "stepping back and watching some of these guys produce".......... WHAT GUYS? You make it sound as if this offense is clicking?????? They win two games against shit teams and suddenly all is well?

This might be a new low in terms of credibility for you. Funny, funny

Rose is a good point guard. He has always been able to run an offense. Most point guards in the league are aggressive when scoring the ball. Problem was he had no Karl Malone or Blake Griffin to play with when he was in MVP mode. He and Butler have to play together. If Lebron can play with Kyrie...Butler and Rose can play together. Butler has to stop being so bullheaded.

 

[The Hawk]

again you're not winning anything on Jimmy postups and isos...so if thats all he brings to the table im fine with trading him. Hoiberg's ideology is not some obscure thing its very much inline with the current NBA

its actually something Jimmy could thrive in if he bought in

yes i'll take Hoiberg over most these guys. this team is done as a contender its no need to keep shoving this same group out that has 1 ECF appearance to their name in like 10 years...the NBA has passed these guys by

How can you say that all Butler brings to the table is post-ups and isos and you would be fine trading him. The guy is an all-star two years in a row. He is considered one to the best ten players in the game and can play two position and play them well (SG and SG) And he is improving his ball handling ability to boot and his out-side shooting. He also might be the best one-on-one defender in the league. He is special.

Butler also called out Freddie Hoiberg and it was warranted. Leaders sometimes do it. This happened when Thibs was here when Noah and Gibson criticized him.

I just find is funny that the Bulls win two games against two very weak teams and all of a sudden Hoiberg is suddenly the MAN for the Bulls.

Hoiberg is your guy and that is fine. I do not agree with that but I do not blame Hoiberg for this unbalanced not contending team. That problem is Reiny and Gar/Pax along with big losses to the scouting guru and a fine assistant coach and coach which is the aforementioned three stooges fault.

 

[The Hawk]

Don't confused scoring ability with lack of point guard skills. Anybody would can get McDermott off for 30 pts is a point guard. Truth is until Butler Rose was the only guy who can get his shot. Rose is a shot creator for himself and others. Period.

He really doesn't have point guard skills. FOr example, he pretty much goes to his right most of the time. He is a scorer. More like a small shooting guard. The only times that he really passes is when he is trapped and cann't shoot himself. That is the lion share of his passes.

 

[The Hawk]

We have about four Robbins and no Batman. We need Batmans.

BTMFD and rebuild via the draft!

We have one Batman (Butler), one Robin (Rose), one Riddler (Gasol), one Police Commissioner (Gibson), and a bunch of stunt men and body doubles.

 

[The Hawk]

Apparently Rose is much better going left than going right...go figure

https://theathletic.com/2016/02/23/left-is-right-for-a-more-efficient-derrick-rose/

I was not talking about his jump shot. I was talking about taking it to the hole where he is right hand dominant.

 

[The Hawk]

Rose is a good point guard. He has always been able to run an offense. Most point guards in the league are aggressive when scoring the ball. Problem was he had no Karl Malone or Blake Griffin to play with when he was in MVP mode. He and Butler have to play together. If Lebron can play with Kyrie...Butler and Rose can play together. Butler has to stop being so bullheaded.

He is not a point guard. He is a scoring guard. He really does not look to set up his teammates and a large part of this is because he wants to dominate the ball and score ala Kobe and Carmelo.

 

[The Hawk]

True...if there is one guy who has helped out McDermott in the NBA with his unselfishness on offense and his help ability on defense, its Derrick Rose. If we could create a two-person NBA Jam team from the Bulls roster, I would choose Rose and McDermott because their skills mesh so well.

They'd get smoked because neither plays defense well.

 

[houheffna]

He is not a point guard. He is a scoring guard. He really does not look to set up his teammates and a large part of this is because he wants to dominate the ball and score ala Kobe and Carmelo.

So....Irving and Curry aren't point guards either? What about Westbrook? Maybe there are no point guards in the league anymore besides a few.

 

[houheffna]

The great coaches are guys who will adjust their own offenses to the talent of the people on their team not the other way around.. It also easier to replace a coach than it is players.

Phil Jackson worked with Michael Jordan and got him to share the ball and play within an offensive system. Did the same with Kobe and Shaq, established all star players who were willing to make their teams better. Jordan didn't make the triangle, he made it look better by buying in. Again, Butler will have to soften his head a bit. Great coaches earn the trust and respect of players and players buy in.

 

[The Hawk]

Phil Jackson worked with Michael Jordan and got him to share the ball and play within an offensive system. Did the same with Kobe and Shaq, established all star players who were willing to make their teams better. Jordan didn't make the triangle, he made it look better by buying in. Again, Butler will have to soften his head a bit. Great coaches earn the trust and respect of players and players buy in.

Please do not attempt to equate Phil Jackson with Freddie Hoiberg as far as "coaching" goes.. As for Jordan, he could have made any offense work. Jackson happened to use the triangle but it was not this offense that won those championships, it was won by Michael Jordan and a great team of other players that trusted in Jordan to lead them.

I do not believe that Butler needs to change a damned thing. He called out Hoiberg who need to kick kicked in the ass just as Jordan called out another Bulls head coach before Phil Jackson. Remember him? It was Jordan who Jackson owed his job to.

 

[The Hawk]

Point guard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_guard
Wikipedia
The point guard (PG), also called the one or point, is one of the five positions in a regulation basketball game. A point guard has perhaps the most specialized role of any position. They are expected to run the team's offense by controlling the ball and making sure that it gets to the right players at the right time.


Derrick Rose is NOT the definition of a point guard. He does NOT have the mentality of making sure that the ball gets to the right players at the right time. His a scoring guard to which setting other guys up are a secondary option. Hinrich was the same kind of player but without Rose's skill set.

 

[houheffna]

Please do not attempt to equate Phil Jackson with Freddie Hoiberg as far as "coaching" goes.. As for Jordan, he could have made any offense work. Jackson happened to use the triangle but it was not this offense that won those championships, it was won by Michael Jordan and a great team of other players that trusted in Jordan to lead them.

I do not believe that Butler needs to change a damned thing. He called out Hoiberg who need to kick kicked in the ass just as Jordan called out another Bulls head coach before Phil Jackson. Remember him? It was Jordan who Jackson owed his job to.

LOL! Man, I don't think you were a Bulls fan in the late 1980's. What Butler did, Jordan didn't do to Collins. Jordan kept that stuff away from the media, with the exception of Krause.

I can compare Hoiberg and Jackson because when Jackson started....nobody believed in him but Krause. And if you think Krause listened to Jordan when it came to coaching prospects...again, you weren't a fan and you weren't paying attention. Furthermore, you compare Hoiberg to other coaches...that's why you down him so much. So I used the best coach and the best player as an example of two people compromising for the betterment of the team. Butler does a lot of what he is doing now for the same reason Jordan was playing the way he did in the late 80's. Neither trusted their teammates much.

So you are saying that Phil had NOTHING to do with those titles? That triangle offense had nothing to do with those titles? Phil getting everyone to step up and fill a role for the team had nothing to do with those titles? Jordan didn't win a damn thing from 1984-1990. And the way he was playing...he wasn't going to. He brought in to what Phil wanted him to do. Sorry that theory pisses all over your theory. The idea being your theory is wrong.

If you think Jimmy Butler is going to get you to a championship doing his best imitation of Joe Johnson...then you haven't paid attention to recent history either.

 

[houheffna]

Point guard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_guard
Wikipedia
The point guard (PG), also called the one or point, is one of the five positions in a regulation basketball game. A point guard has perhaps the most specialized role of any position. They are expected to run the team's offense by controlling the ball and making sure that it gets to the right players at the right time.


Derrick Rose is NOT the definition of a point guard. He does NOT have the mentality of making sure that the ball gets to the right players at the right time. His a scoring guard to which setting other guys up are a secondary option. Hinrich was the same kind of player but without Rose's skill set.

I don't think the players are complaining about not getting the ball from Rose. He is an unselfish player on the court. There have been times he has done questionable things out there but never was he NOT a point guard. You are wrong about Hinrich too. Steve Kerr was comparing Hinrich to Steve Nash! Not Jeff Hornacek. Obviously it was an exaggeration, but I don't think he compares Hinrich to Nash if Hinrich didn't show a pro level ability to play that position.

But let me ask again....Curry? Irving? Gary Payton? Sam Cassell? Isiah Thomas, Isaiah Thomas (Boston)....are those guys point guards or shooting guards?

 

[Benchmob757]

Sometimes the things you read on here are just...ugh.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[The Hawk]

LOL! Man, I don't think you were a Bulls fan in the late 1980's. What Butler did, Jordan didn't do to Collins. Jordan kept that stuff away from the media, with the exception of Krause.

I can compare Hoiberg and Jackson because when Jackson started....nobody believed in him but Krause. And if you think Krause listened to Jordan when it came to coaching prospects...again, you weren't a fan and you weren't paying attention. Furthermore, you compare Hoiberg to other coaches...that's why you down him so much. So I used the best coach and the best player as an example of two people compromising for the betterment of the team. Butler does a lot of what he is doing now for the same reason Jordan was playing the way he did in the late 80's. Neither trusted their teammates much.

So you are saying that Phil had NOTHING to do with those titles? That triangle offense had nothing to do with those titles? Phil getting everyone to step up and fill a role for the team had nothing to do with those titles? Jordan didn't win a damn thing from 1984-1990. And the way he was playing...he wasn't going to. He brought in to what Phil wanted him to do. Sorry that theory pisses all over your theory. The idea being your theory is wrong.

If you think Jimmy Butler is going to get you to a championship doing his best imitation of Joe Johnson...then you haven't paid attention to recent history either.

Jordan did not have much talent around him when Collins was there. Krause brought in the pieces like Pippin, Grant, Harper and the rest. Bringing Rodman in was also genius on his part. And it was Jordan who wanted Collins out.

I also have not diminished Jackson at all. He did get Jordan to buy into the system. Phil was a great coach but the triangle offense was just a piece of their success. It was the over-all coaching of Phil Jackson and the TALENT that Krause brought it that brought all of those championship to Chicago. WE will agree to disagree I guess