Rose is waking up!

FrankieLyrical

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Yep. Team drama seems down lately too. Even with the previous losing streak.

Does kinda make you wonder about Jimmy.

Sent from the mod station in Nome, Alaska.

I'm pretty sure I heard it from Nick Friedell on ESPN 1000 a few weeks ago, and he was saying how Jimmy's ego has gotten really big since his contract. He said that he's rubbed some people the wrong way in the locker room and it's because of how he keeps talking about being the leader so openly to the media, when players like Rose and Noah remember his very humble (2 ppg rookie year) beginnings.

It makes sense on both ends. Jimmy obviously has gotten better, but for him to come out and say the things he's said I can see why his teammates would have a problem with it.
 

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Yep. Team drama seems down lately too. Even with the previous losing streak.

Does kinda make you wonder about Jimmy.

Sent from the mod station in Nome, Alaska.
I think Jimmy does perhaps want an offense more centered around him, but Hoiball isn't centered on anyone in particular so that might be part of the issue. But we were also just generally sucking offensively to the point where Jimmy isos were probably better than what we'd get otherwise. I think it's fine to mix that in here and there, but our best chance of offensive success will come with Hoiball, especially with Doug and Bobby being hot right now.
 

Enasic

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I was told that I was crazy to say Butler could/should be a trade piece.

Definitely not crazy. But the package would have to be epic because you're basically handing the keys back over to Derrick and while he's looking good and seems healthy as ever, you can't bank on that going forward. If he plays another full healthy season next year, I think the decision would be easier to trade Jimmy. IF we got blown away by a package.
 

Novak

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Jimmy needs to work within the system (that means primarily running the O through Rose) or be shown the door. Fwiw, I think he'll fall more in line sooner rather than later. Who knows, maybe the injury, and opportunity to step back and watch some of these guys produce, will benefit him in the long run.
 

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Jimmy needs to work within the system (that means primarily running the O through Rose) or be shown the door. Fwiw, I think he'll fall more in line sooner rather than later. Who knows, maybe the injury, and opportunity to step back and watch some of these guys produce, will benefit him in the long run.

You watch last night, and the second half of Friday's game, and they were fun to watch. I said this in your other thread, but former players who commentate on the game all say they would love to play in an offense that Hoiberg runs. There was a great play last night, where Gasol made a great pass into a cutting Doug who ended up making a reverse layup - who wouldn't like to make that pass/shot??

It's not an issue that Butler wants to play isolation, per se, but Jimmy seems intent on making those iso plays with under :10 in the shot clock. Do it earlier, and I don't think Fred has a problem.
 

RoseMVP1

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The team is better with the offense in Roses hands and not Jimmys. I love Jimmy but that's just the reality.

Assuming he stays healthy, I'm expecting Derrick to blow up next year since he will be looking for the max. We just need people in the front office that knows how to put a team together.
 

Enasic

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Could it be that Jimmy is telling the team "I'll start running once you guys start playing defense" lol
 

Diddy1122

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This board really makes me lulz sometimes. :lmao:

2 months ago: Rose is the worst PG on the planet! Jimmy needs the ball more!
Now: Jimmy hogs the ball too much! Rose should be running the offense!

Jimmy was resistant at first, mainly due to the lack of post-ups in Hoiball, which is a bread and butter staple of his game. However, he's still played great as a primary ball handler (4.3apg; 2nd on team), and has pushed the ball much more as the months have progressed. Him getting hurt was a big blow for the very reason that Rose is finally turning the corner with his play and his health (fingers TIGHTLY crossed). These two have been steadily building chemistry while Rose was fully recovering from that pre-season face surgery. Rose and Butler were both starting to play well at a high level together and Jimmy went down. They'll need to get back to a high level together come playoff time.

The biggest problem this year has been the lack of consistency in defense and bench production. While there is some real good defense (1st in opponent FG%; 4th in defensive eff before Butler went down; 2nd in team rebounds), when it's coupled with a lack of opponent turnovers and abundance of opponent offensive rebounds (last in the league in both defensive categories), the holes clearly begin to show. Bench play has been inconsistent, partly due to injuries forcing so many new & often mismatched lineups and rotations. Solid roles have still not been fully established. It's been very plug & play, which is not what you want when you're trying to build habits & routines while implementing a new system.
 

Enasic

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Well 2 months ago Rose was one of the worst PGs and Jimmy did need the ball more. Things have changed now however. Even if Jimmy wants his post up possessions, he doesn't need to trot down the court to do it. He can sprint down to the post and put the pressure on his defender as well as the bigs. He could still get out in transition. I do absolutely agree that the defense and bench are the biggest problems and will be our downfall in the playoffs.
 

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You want to know why the offense runs more smoothly with Rose? It is because Rose is a natural point guard and Jimmy is learning the position. I think Rose and Butler can flourish together if they just learn to play faster. Rose is pushing the ball now that he is in better shape.
 

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The reason it may seem like Jimmy wants to slow the offense down is because he's always guarding the other team's #1 guy. You know how exhausting that is? He's been by far the only player worth a damn on this team this season so let's not be so quick to throw him under the bus.




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Axl Rose

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Jimmy wants to improve his brand is what its about. this is the pivotal time in his career to get endorsement money so he wants to stick with what hes comfortable with which is postup and iso

but lets be honest we aren't winning anything on Jimmy postups and isos and its not what Hoiberg is about and actually its what he wants to avoid in most instances...he has to adjust his game
 

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Jimmy needs to work within the system (that means primarily running the O through Rose) or be shown the door. Fwiw, I think he'll fall more in line sooner rather than later. Who knows, maybe the injury, and opportunity to step back and watch some of these guys produce, will benefit him in the long run.

"Shown the door"? What makes you or anyone to believe that Rose knows how to run the offense? He sure as shit is not a good point guard. Far from it. Truth is that this team NEEDS a point guard with Butler returning back to his original position as a small forward. ANd as for "stepping back and watching some of these guys produce".......... WHAT GUYS? You make it sound as if this offense is clicking?????? They win two games against shit teams and suddenly all is well?

This might be a new low in terms of credibility for you. Funny, funny:(
 

The Hawk

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The team is better with the offense in Roses hands and not Jimmys. I love Jimmy but that's just the reality.

Assuming he stays healthy, I'm expecting Derrick to blow up next year since he will be looking for the max. We just need people in the front office that knows how to put a team together.

This team will only be better when the ball is in neither of their hands. They need someone who knows how to run an offense because neither Rose or Butler is a point guard. Butler because of a lack of ball handling skill and Rose because of his score first mentality. What they need is a point guard. Return Butler to small forward and go with Rose as a 2 guard or trade him.
 

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Well 2 months ago Rose was one of the worst PGs and Jimmy did need the ball more. Things have changed now however. Even if Jimmy wants his post up possessions, he doesn't need to trot down the court to do it. He can sprint down to the post and put the pressure on his defender as well as the bigs. He could still get out in transition. I do absolutely agree that the defense and bench are the biggest problems and will be our downfall in the playoffs.

"Play-offs"? This team will be very lucky to be the 8th seed.
 

The Hawk

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You want to know why the offense runs more smoothly with Rose? It is because Rose is a natural point guard and Jimmy is learning the position. I think Rose and Butler can flourish together if they just learn to play faster. Rose is pushing the ball now that he is in better shape.

Rose is not a natural point guard in my books. He is more a sanitized Iverson with less balls. Neither can run a team for a coach. Neither have the skills and/or mentality to run a team because both are score first guys and it is not in their mentality to facilitate an offense. Hoiball will never work with Gasol, Rose, and Butler. Square pegs in round holes.
 

The Hawk

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Jimmy wants to improve his brand is what its about. this is the pivotal time in his career to get endorsement money so he wants to stick with what hes comfortable with which is postup and iso

but lets be honest we aren't winning anything on Jimmy postups and isos and its not what Hoiberg is about and actually its what he wants to avoid in most instances...he has to adjust his game

The great coaches are guys who will adjust their own offenses to the talent of the people on their team not the other way around.. It also easier to replace a coach than it is players. If I were Butler, I would not trade my offensive talents and compromise my abilities to some ideology of a rookie head coach if it hurt my effectiveness as a player. Butler is in the prime of his life and has worked his ass off to get what he has gotten. But beyond that, the needs of this team go way beyond what Rose and Butler are all about. The needs of this team are in making it into an up tempo group of players IF they decide to keep Hoiberg and that is a big damn IF.

So........ assuming that they keep Hoiberg and keep whatever his offense is all about then Gasol, Gibson, Snell, and a hobbled(if true) Noah need to go and they keep, Mirotic, Portis, McDermott, Rose, Butler, and Moore. That really is a pretty decent nucleus if you wish to rebuild in two years.

BUt this all presupposes that Hoiberg is the guy that you want to take control of this team and I have no confidence that he is. Nothing against him but how in the hell would you totally gut your team for a rookie head coach like Freddie?
 

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Rose is not a natural point guard in my books. He is more a sanitized Iverson with less balls. Neither can run a team for a coach. Neither have the skills and/or mentality to run a team because both are score first guys and it is not in their mentality to facilitate an offense. Hoiball will never work with Gasol, Rose, and Butler. Square pegs in round holes.

If it can't work with 3 All-stars...who the **** do you think it's going to work with exactly?
 

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If it can't work with 3 All-stars...who the **** do you think it's going to work with exactly?

Answer that question for yourself. Two of the three guys I mentioned are post up people(Butler and Gasol). Rose is the only real up tempo guy. This is why the hiring of Hoiberg made no damned sense. The Bulls had a core team designed ofr great defense and a post offense. Unfortunately the GM and owner would not complete the team.

I am so fucking pissed right now because of the incompetence of the management of this team for the last six years. Yeah, some of it was bad luck with injuries but the ownership and management did not do much of anything to go all out to win a championship.
 

stevethacreator

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Answer that question for yourself. Two of the three guys I mentioned are post up people(Butler and Gasol). Rose is the only real up tempo guy. This is why the hiring of Hoiberg made no damned sense. The Bulls had a core team designed ofr great defense and a post offense. Unfortunately the GM and owner would not complete the team.

I am so fucking pissed right now because of the incompetence of the management of this team for the last six years. Yeah, some of it was bad luck with injuries but the ownership and management did not do much of anything to go all out to win a championship.

Look, I miss Thibs defense because you had to work and the knock on Fred's defense is understandable. But Thibs had no offensive plays drawn up except isolating up top and getting the pick so they can DRAW defenders in and kick it out to shooters that we didn't have at the time. Even then Thibs liked to jam minutes into his starting two guards, especially in the playoffs. And it didn't help that Pau was kind of the log jam in the offense either, every time you saw Pau in the post, he would face-up and didn't play his game he wanted. And it didn't help he first round we played against a good defensive center like John Henson who was blocking machine, what was he averaging in the playoffs like 1.7 BPG?

Anyway, Fred's offense doesn't play to Pau or Jimmy's strengths; But that's...not totally bad. The problem is that we always got stuck because Pau, as much of a great production player he is, sometimes plays soft in the post. The only guy who plays decent with his back to the basket is Taj and that says something. What our offense lacked for five years was that we had no shooters on this team and now we kind of do. The problem was, how are we gonna create and like I said, I'd sacrifice Tony Snell to the Sun God if it meant I could get Dougie on the floor and spread it out. And as we saw in the Lakers game, spreading the floor? We got Rose cutting to the rim. They jam up the inside, we kick it out to a shooter. Someone's falling asleep baseline? We cut to the basket and go up aggressive. THAT'S what's missing, while defense is PARAMOUNT, you become predictable in the sense that people know you're a good on-ball defensive team, but they also know that you don't have shot creators. And that was our problem.

Thibs, I'll never be ungrateful to him because he set a standard for the Bulls since he got the job and turn this team around when we were young and getting beat first round. And the trials he had to go through to build this team through a FO that is tone deaf when it comes to drafting and building something. Thibs was an amazing coach. But I can understand the situation, and the frustration and it sucks he got axed through petty lobbying. But we got Hoiberg now, who is STILL trying to find pieces and figure out what guys are good at. That comes with the territory of trying to reprogram guys who were coached on HUSTLE and winning the mind games on the defensive side. Now we have a chance to flourish and I want that for the team, and the Lakers game kept me sorta optimistic in the sense that...if we can find our offense and defense in time this team CAN be saved.
 

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