Rose is waking up!

[Enasic]

TS% and eFG% are about as good as it gets when it comes to measuring efficiency and Rose is brutal in both categories.

Here's the problem:

You say you admit that he's been one of the worst starting PG's in the league yet you go onto make arguments that seem like you're defending against that position. It's obviously, very confusing.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

TS% and eFG% are about as good as it gets when it comes to measuring efficiency and Rose is brutal in both categories.

Here's the problem:

You say you admit that he's been one of the worst starting PG's in the league yet you go onto make arguments that seem like you're defending against that position. It's obviously, very confusing.

Being one of the worst starters in the league through 30 games =/= time to dump him

and =/= He's one of the worst players in the league.

There are 150 starters. And nearly 450 players.

When it comes to "see it to believe it" people, we've already seen it before. Not much reason to believe it can't or won't happen again. That's what I'm arguing against.

 

[Enasic]

Being one of the worst starters in the league through 30 games =/= time to dump him

and =/= He's one of the worst players in the league.

There are 150 starters. And nearly 450 players.

When it comes to "see it to believe it" people, we've already seen it before. Not much reason to believe it can't or won't happen again. That's what I'm arguing against.

What have we seen before?

Rose being dominant 5 seasons ago?

Players who were not good in over 4 seasons and suddenly became very good again and overcame injuries?

I just think having a wait and see approach is the more logical thing to do than just expecting him to be great again because he was 5 years ago.

 

[Diehardfan]

Just to throw another log on the fire....the $21 million wuss has another owie and will not be available for tonight's game. His act is as old as it is tiresome.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Just to throw another log on the fire....the $21 million wuss has another owie and will not be available for tonight's game. His act is as old as it is tiresome.

You know he's only missed like 2 games so far this year...

 

[clonetrooper264]

Also just to reiterate, Rose has never been an efficient player...but his efficiency was crap even for him.

 

[Enasic]

Rose was fine efficiency wise his MVP year. Not elite, but very good.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Rose was fine efficiency wise his MVP year. Not elite, but very good.

55%. Isn't that like average? Or perhaps I'm mistaken.

 

[Enasic]

55%. Isn't that like average? Or perhaps I'm mistaken.

Nah, you're right. It's about average. Maybe a better way of phrasing it is that his efficiency wasn't a problem, and very respectable given his overall production. But I definitely agree, he was never an elite player in terms of efficiency. He was efficient enough, and had the ability to flat out take over games in crunch time to where you could argue, he was a top 5 player in the game. Despite not being as efficient as guys like LeBron, Curry, Durant, Westbrook, CP3, etc.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Also just to reiterate, Rose has never been an efficient player...but his efficiency was crap even for him.

Are you sure about that? I think a lot of people have a skewed understanding of how to interpret if a player is an efficient scorer.

Typically, in order for a player or a team to be efficient, they would need to have an output of at least 1 point per possession. Rose was an efficient player during his MVP season because of his free throw shooting. He was right around the 1 point per possession mark making 33% of three's (1.6 makes per game times 3 points for each make (4.8) divided by the number of attempts (4.8) which equals 1. Rose also averaged about 3.4 possessions per game that season in which he averaged 5.9 points.

He averaged 1.08 pts per possession. 0.08 better than average. So, yes, Rose has been efficient.

 

[Enasic]

Are you sure about that? I think a lot of people have a skewed understanding of how to interpret if a player is an efficient scorer.

Typically, in order for a player or a team to be efficient, they would need to have an output of at least 1 point per possession. Rose was an efficient player during his MVP season because of his free throw shooting. He was right around the 1 point per possession mark making 33% of three's (1.6 makes per game times 3 points for each make (4.8) divided by the number of attempts (4.8) which equals 1. Rose also averaged about 3.4 possessions per game that season in which he averaged 5.9 points.

He averaged 1.08 pts per possession. 0.08 better than average. So, yes, Rose has been efficient.

Yes, back in his MVP days efficiency really wasn't a problem. However, he was never in the elite category in terms of efficiency.

 

[Axl Rose]

of course Rose shows a few games of progression then gets some kind of injury

his body just doesn't want to play ball anymore

 

[Novak]

ERMERGERD ROSE MlSSED A GAME!!!!111!!!

 

[Axl Rose]

ERMERGERD ROSE MlSSED A GAME!!!

he has missed over 200 games in the last few years. this just another one added to the total.

at this rate Derrick will retire with more games missed than played.

 

[knoxville7]

Some dudes in this forum call him one of the worst players in the league and others say it's a no brainer to get rid of him at all costs. That's why I'm defending him because I feel that is a pretty extreme mentality.

TS% is not nearly as accurate of a formula to measure scoring efficiency as [ 2PM(*2) + 3PM(*3) + FTM(*1) ] / [ FGA + FTA(/2) ] and then times 100

The NBA average, just to give you an idea is about 102.

Rose is below even the last ranked 76ers (who average 92 as a team) at 85. Though there are a number of players below him in efficiency (i.e. Lawson, Kobe Bryant, and Mudiay who is at like 61).

So, yes, by any measurement, Rose has been very weak in terms of scoring efficiency. That was the weak spot of his game this season so far.

His assisting and opponent FG% and opponent output though has been very good. Still, the reason Rose was the MVP was having all those other categories strong as well as scoring 108 pts / 100 possessions versus the 85 he is so far this season. A far cry from Stephen Curry this season who is a scorching hot 135/100poss but was enough to match LeBron James' current 108/100poss.

so you like points per 100 possessions as your stat? and you say derrick has done such a good job defensively against his opponents night in and night out right? well he is giving up 105 points per 100 possessions...nothing special there either...

 

[knoxville7]

the other thing to remember when it comes to derrick and the "lack of support" you think he gets, is that a lot of it derrick brings upon himself. if derrick was more humble, and saying things like, give it time and im working hard to get back....maybe acknowledge that he is struggling, instead he rattles off shit about how he is still great and an MVP level player. not very endearing

 

[Axl Rose]

the other thing to remember when it comes to derrick and the "lack of support" you think he gets, is that a lot of it derrick brings upon himself. if derrick was more humble, and saying things like, give it time and im working hard to get back....maybe acknowledge that he is struggling, instead he rattles off shit about how he is still great and an MVP level player. not very endearing

or saying how hes waiting for his next big payday, unprompted, on media day, 2 years ahead of his free agency. when he hasn't lived up to his current contract....yes im still bitter about that

 

[knoxville7]

or saying how hes waiting for his next big payday, unprompted, on media day, 2 years ahead of his free agency. when he hasn't lived up to his current contract....yes im still bitter about that

yep, absolutely. theres a lot of instances that you could mention like this. it certainly rubbed me(and many many others) the wrong way.

 

[clonetrooper264]

the other thing to remember when it comes to derrick and the "lack of support" you think he gets, is that a lot of it derrick brings upon himself. if derrick was more humble, and saying things like, give it time and im working hard to get back....maybe acknowledge that he is struggling, instead he rattles off shit about how he is still great and an MVP level player. not very endearing

Well he used to be humble...ah those were the days.

He has said he's played terrible a couple times I believe. So he's not 100% oblivious. Maybe 98%.

 

[Axl Rose]

yet another game he missed

its not so much me being upset that hes sitting out, im just sick and tired of him being injured constantly. i know its not his fault but my god its been 5 YEARS of this...when will it end?

its even more frustrating that it ALWAYS comes after Rose starts to find some rhythm and the injury pretty much starts him over at square one....i don't get how anybody could not be frustrated by this

can't wait till his deal is up and we can get off this rollercoaster cause im feeling sick