Ryan Dempster to Rangers (officially official)

[dabynsky]

^I legitimately read both identical posts

I'll delete one. I was half awake and trying to get a toddler around while posting.

 

[Jntg4]

I'll delete one. I was half awake and trying to get a toddler around while posting.

lol I was justs urprised that it took me a few sentences to realize it was the same thing lol.

Is your Deadline recap thing up yet?

 

[dabynsky]

lol I was justs urprised that it took me a few sentences to realize it was the same thing lol.

Is your Deadline recap thing up yet?

It is up at WSD. Whether it is posted here is up to Rice, Zach, Rush, etc.

 

[Jntg4]

Nice, Imma gunna go read it

 

[Rice Cube]

It is up at WSD. Whether it is posted here is up to Rice, Zach, Rush, etc.

I sent the link to Zack and Rush so they can post it on CCS front page.

 

[Diehardfan]

Vizcaino has tremedous upside. 1) still a spec 2) had surgery he is far from a shoe in

That's very true but there is no shoe in MLB. How many "can't miss" kids have been brought in and they either can't carry their numbers to the big show (Corey Patterson, Ty Griffin, Gary Scott etc) or are injured all the time(Mark Prior, Kerry Wood). There are some....like the Harper kid in DC or Castro but they are in the minority. I'm not ripping the Cubs for making these moves, it had to be done and at least these kids do appear to have a big upside but it's really a crap shoot. Cub fans can hang their hat on the fact that Epstein and company appear to know talent when they see it....Rizzo being a prime example.

 

[2SeamHeat]

Oh, I see. You are well acquainted with the Dempster family. You know even better than Dempster himself what's best for him and his family. Its just so unfortunate that Ryan has the 5 & 10 clause and not you....because I'm POSITIVE that with ALL your knowledge of his family and situation that he would've
gladly had you pick his destination.

Did I once state this? No. However, it's pretty obvious that the family crap was merely an excuse to not look like an ass. Why? He accepted a trade to Texas in the end.... and continued to state he'd accept a trade to Atlanta if it came down to the wire. But hey, this information is readily available to anyone that paid attention. Such a shame it's so easy to read through the BS these days when every beat writer around is looking for a scoop and will publish every word you say on an issue like this.

The facts are, he turned down a trade to a team that has a better shot at making the post season than the team he was holding out for. He stated openly that he would accept a trade to Atlanta (so apparently it wasn't an issue for him and his family at that point, but suddenly changed once a trade was in place). After he nixed the trade, he then stated he would accept the trade to Atlanta if it was still on the table and they were nearing the deadline (suddenly there's no issue with his family in taking a trade to Atlanta after all). Had he gone to Atlanta and pitched successfully (which he would have had a better chance of doing in Atlanta due to environmental and stadium effects alone, nonetheless playing for a better team), it would have improved his value this winter when he hits the FA market. But this isn't good for his family's future?

The media and some fans suggest his daughter's illness is a big reason why he might have turned down a trade. He didn't want to move so far from his doctors. Yet, it's farther to LA from Chicago (1739.5 miles) than it is to Atlanta (716.5 miles). So, accepting a trade to LA would have moved him FARTHER from her doctors. Also, Dempster's daughter suffers from DiGeorge's Syndrome... and Atlanta actually houses a hospital of St. Joseph's that happens to be the world's leading medical center dealing with this disease! The very doctor that Dempster goes to, happens to be on the board of directors at this hospital and was once one of the resident physicians there! This is the hospital that most child DiGeorge's syndrome patients are sent to for prolonged treatment. Oh, and he understands this as this hospital is actually the primary recipient of donations made by his foundation. LA has no such hospital. LA also only has a couple of physicians that specialize or have vast experience with treating this illness. So, again, how is accepting a trade to LA more of a family-oriented decision over going to Atlanta?

Now, he accepts a deal to Texas. I know the Dallas/Ft.Worth metro area very well (Arlington is in this metro area). Kinda lived there off and on for 3 years. The housing market is terrible if you are only planning on being there temporarily. There is no DiGeorge specialist in the Dallas metro area of any significance, so he's going to have to either fly a doctor in... or fly his daughter out. Plus, he's moving to the dreaded AL (where he didn't want to go to in the first place because he was worried about the higher offensive output AL teams are capable of). Not only this, but he's moving to one of the best hitter-friendly ball parks in the major leagues! He's going to get shelled at home, and he's going to get shelled on the road. Sure, he's probably going to go to the playoffs, but the odds on him being pointed to as a big part of that are very slim. The odds are actually in favor of his second half collapse ballooning his ERA above 4. This will deeply harm his value this winter, as it will undoubtedly make it clear he can't pitch in the AL. Thus, the move he actually approved is worse overall for his future... and makes no sense at all to have made with his family in mind.

Also, it doesn't help that he stated on 4 different occasions that he wanted to go to LA so he could be with his old friend Ted Lilly. Yeah, that sounds like a family-oriented decision and not selfish at all. As I said, the pretense of your statement is truly ridiculous if you actually lay out the facts of the situation.

 

[dabynsky]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/breaking/chi-epstein-defends-dempster-on-atlanta-trade-fiasco-20120801,0,4673128.story

Read this article. Tell me what you think after reading that...

 

[2SeamHeat]

That's very true but there is no shoe in MLB. How many "can't miss" kids have been brought in and they either can't carry their numbers to the big show (Corey Patterson, Ty Griffin, Gary Scott etc) or are injured all the time(Mark Prior, Kerry Wood). There are some....like the Harper kid in DC or Castro but they are in the minority. I'm not ripping the Cubs for making these moves, it had to be done and at least these kids do appear to have a big upside but it's really a crap shoot. Cub fans can hang their hat on the fact that Epstein and company appear to know talent when they see it....Rizzo being a prime example.

This I totally agree with. I think overall the team got a good haul for what they traded and the circumstances that came up. Prospects are very much hit or miss, though some are more hit than miss when they have success at higher levels. Vizcaino's TJ surgery is a concern, but TJ surgery has become so routine that it has a 90% success rate. Most pitchers have no elbow issues whatsoever for year (and typically around 10-12 years) after the surgery. They also usually come back stronger than they were prior to the surgery. The last thing to return to a pitcher is command and control, but it usually does with time and proper rehabbing. I also like the Villanueva kid, though I think he's a better haul if he moves to 2B. I like Torreyes and DeVoss, but their best assets are an ability to become leadoff men. I think the future leadoff man might be playing CF in Szczur. So, getting a guy that could hit 15 HR and 35-40 doubles and be a bit of a run producer there with a very good glove is a wonderful thought.

The arms, not so impressed with. I do think that Hendricks might have a good shot at being a back-end rotation guy that could succeed in Wrigley as a ground-baller that has extreme control and command with lesser stuff overall.

 

[2SeamHeat]

I guess I should also say that I personally am not so upset as I once was regarding Dempster's decision. In the end, we did get fair value for him given the circumstances. I do wish him luck in Texas, and he's going to need it there.

However, I can easily see why anyone would be upset with all of this. My argument with DieHard is that the whole "better for his family" crap is nothing but a smoke screen. Dempster wanted to go to LA to play with his old friend Ted... not because it was a better situation for his family. He even suggested this prior to the Atlanta fiasco. And no, Epstein playing the damage control, publicity role does not change things. That's simply him doing what any worthwhile team Pres would in that situation, and try not to burn bridges with a player and create potential future issues with other players.

 

[Rice Cube]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/breaking/chi-epstein-defends-dempster-on-atlanta-trade-fiasco-20120801,0,4673128.story

Read this article. Tell me what you think after reading that...

I think Theo Epstein is a cool dude.

 

[dabynsky]

I think the article is pretty damning to Ryan Dempster. They had to let him listen to the Dodgers lowball offers to get him to agree to go elsewhere. Oh well, well done to get him out of here with something useful.

 

[Rice Cube]

I think the article is pretty damning to Ryan Dempster. They had to let him listen to the Dodgers lowball offers to get him to agree to go elsewhere. Oh well, well done to get him out of here with something useful.

Why? He has 10-5 rights. He can do whatever the **** he wants. We don't have to like it, but it's not like we can force him to do anything any more than the Cubs could. I'm pretty sure this is how most trades of 10-5 guys work and this one was blown way out of proportion because Atlanta didn't know how to shut up.

 

[dabynsky]

Why? He has 10-5 rights. He can do whatever the **** he wants. We don't have to like it, but it's not like we can force him to do anything any more than the Cubs could. I'm pretty sure this is how most trades of 10-5 guys work and this one was blown way out of proportion because Atlanta didn't know how to shut up.

It takes away the whole best situation for my family and blindsided narrative. As I said at the outset I didn't have a problem with Kerry Wood or Aramis Ramirez sticking it out the year, but this made it clear that Dempster had to be handled to get to go anywhere but LAD. Again it is his right to do this, but this blows a ton of the spin that the Demspter side has tried to put out there as untrue.

 

[Rice Cube]

It takes away the whole best situation for my family and blindsided narrative. As I said at the outset I didn't have a problem with Kerry Wood or Aramis Ramirez sticking it out the year, but this made it clear that Dempster had to be handled to get to go anywhere but LAD. Again it is his right to do this, but this blows a ton of the spin that the Demspter side has tried to put out there as untrue.

I'm probably in the minority but I don't really put a lot of stock into what athletes say. The reality is that Dempster had 10-5 rights and he could choose where he wanted to go, and the Cubs had to respect that. The fact that he actually let them trade him to a non-preferred destination could be construed as noble. I'm sure plenty of fans will still be miffed that the Cubs lost out on a primo prospect (I was too) but there's only so much blame you can heap on Dempster, especially when he had the leverage and none of this is an issue had Atlanta just clammed up about it until the deal was officially official. I think Theo handled it well and I'm glad he explained the reality of 10-5 the way he did. Depending on who you talk to, it could be that Dempster never actually said "I veto the trade" but rather just wanted time to think about it, which is sort of what he said. This isn't really a defense of Dempster as I have no vested interest in his life choices or whatever, but just the way I see things. Being that he's now been traded and the return didn't suck (even with losing Delgado) I think it's safe to consider this little drama over with.

 

[2SeamHeat]

It takes away the whole best situation for my family and blindsided narrative. As I said at the outset I didn't have a problem with Kerry Wood or Aramis Ramirez sticking it out the year, but this made it clear that Dempster had to be handled to get to go anywhere but LAD. Again it is his right to do this, but this blows a ton of the spin that the Demspter side has tried to put out there as untrue.

Pretty much sums up my side of the argument. It sucks that he turned down the trade to Atlanta, however, we may have ended up with a better pitcher in the end with Vizcaino if he comes back strong and lives up to even 2/3 of his potential. What bites with that is, we got that for Maholm. So, conceivably, we could have gotten Delgado for Dempster... and a similar haul of Vizcaino for Malholm from another team. Oh well, we did get Villanueva for Demp, even if we kind of needed to get back a solid arm for him.

 

[Rice Cube]

I'm not saying you guys are wrong about the smokescreens and doublespeak and stuff.

I'm just saying I don't really give a shit anymore :lol:

 

[DewsSox79]

i get it, he has 10-5 rights. but 2-3 months somewhere where you can get a ring (atl). it wasnt like he was dealt to a team 10 games out. I think he is a more of a diva and regards himself as this amazing pitcher. he isnt. he is pitching well, but he isnt the make or break for any team as he will start to slow down, especially in the AL. he is soft.

 

[Rice Cube]

i get it, he has 10-5 rights. but 2-3 months somewhere where you can get a ring (atl). it wasnt like he was dealt to a team 10 games out. I think he is a more of a diva and regards himself as this amazing pitcher. he isnt. he is pitching well, but he isnt the make or break for any team as he will start to slow down, especially in the AL. he is soft.

I guess we'll see. Not my problem anymore.

 

[ZDemp34]

i get it, he has 10-5 rights. but 2-3 months somewhere where you can get a ring (atl). it wasnt like he was dealt to a team 10 games out. I think he is a more of a diva and regards himself as this amazing pitcher. he isnt. he is pitching well, but he isnt the make or break for any team as he will start to slow down, especially in the AL. he is soft.

Texas might win the World Series anyways.