Silver Ramirez

[tbo41fan]

Ramirez is NOT the best 3B in the NL.

There's no point in arguing about Ramirez. He's not the best 3B even in the NL Central, let alone the entire league. If you can't see that, there's no point in even beginning to explain who's better and why.

Yep. Wright is one of at least 3 or 4, possibly more who are better at third than Aramis. In order to be considered the best at your position, you have to be sound defensively and offensively.

Lol according to you.

:lmao:

What's the point in responding?

If you're not :cum: to Ramirez, you don't have "baseball knowledge".

A.K.A.

I made a claim and I have no idea how to back it up.

still waiting for you to prove someone better than Ramirez in NL

 

[nwfisch]

Looking at the error numbers, (not that it's the best way to judge a defense), Ramirez played fewer games than Wright in all years except 06. It's a sad situation when a guy like Ramirez is winning Silver Sluggers.

 

[Uman85]

A.K.A.

I made a claim and I have no idea how to back it up.

still waiting for you to prove someone better than Ramirez in NL

You weren't even in the discussion. The "Ramirez argument" is tireless and pointless. Fisch and Wrigley know exactly what I'm talking about. It's been brought up way too many times in the past month and it's not worth talking about anymore.

I keep my pants on when I watch Ramirez, unlike many others.

 

[nwfisch]

I get Ramirez was a big part of the Cubs runs in 03 and 07-08, however, he is going to decline rapidly soon, and if his numbers now can't get the Cubs to closer than 20 under, I don't see how much the Cubs are going to lose without Ramirez.

Sure they'll lose his pretty Silver Slugger stats, but dropping to 66 wins from 71 without Ramirez, while getting younger, is something I would support the Cubs doing.

 

[tbo41fan]

You weren't even in the discussion. The "Ramirez argument" is tireless and pointless. Fisch and Wrigley know exactly what I'm talking about. It's been brought up way too many times in the past month and it's not worth talking about anymore.

I keep my pants on when I watch Ramirez, unlike many others.

See thats the cool thing about message boards...you can join discussions!


Still haven't given a better option than Ramirez, so i'll just end my involvement here since I know you have no answers to who is a better 3rd baseman than Ramirez.

 

[tbo41fan]

We're not smart? You can't even type coherent, complete sentences. :lmao:

No need to insult someone else's "baseball knowledge" because they don't :cum: to Ramirez like you do. His offensive production is replaceable and his D is horrendous.

Theo thinks he's replaceable and so does Brenly. Those are two respectable opinions in baseball. I guess they need to "learn baseball" too then, huh?

It's pointless to even talk about Ramirez.

Oh yea, 1 more thing...

How exactly will his offensive numbers be replaced?

 

[nwfisch]

I'd take Wright or Sandoval in building a team over Ramirez.

With that not being the question at hand, whose better with the bat this season, Ramirez is. To me it was stat gathering.

 

[tbo41fan]

I'd take Wright or Sandoval in building a team over Ramirez.

With that not being the question at hand, whose better with the bat this season, Ramirez is. To me it was stat gathering.

The question is not who is better to build a team around...it's who is the BEST 3rd baseman in the NL

are you saying that those 2 are better 3rd basemen than Ramirez?

 

[Uman85]

Oh yea, 1 more thing...

How exactly will his offensive numbers be replaced?

Something called free agency. That's pretty neat. There are options at other positions who produce just as well as Ramirez did offensively and even better.

 

[nwfisch]

I'd take Wright or Sandoval in building a team over Ramirez.

With that not being the question at hand, whose better with the bat this season, Ramirez is. To me it was stat gathering.

The question is not who is better to build a team around...it's who is the BEST 3rd baseman in the NL

are you saying that those 2 are better 3rd basemen than Ramirez?

:nope:

I'll readily admit that Ramirez is the top 3B bat in the NL.

However, I would take at least 3 others in "rebuilding" the 3B spot.

Wright
Sandoval
Freese

 

[tbo41fan]

Something called free agency. That's pretty neat. There are options at other positions who produce just as well as Ramirez did offensively and even better.

You still forget to mention a small thing called a NAME of a player

generalizations aren't good enough when you make blatant statements like that

:nope:

I'll readily admit that Ramirez is the top 3B bat in the NL.

However, I would take at least 3 others in "rebuilding" the 3B spot.

Wright
Sandoval
Freese

I'd be weary of Freese since he is a small sample size (although it was on the biggest stage possible, props for that)

 

[Rice Cube]

I think the Silver Slugger vote was helped by the fact that most of the 3B this year either sucked or got hurt. By default, Aramis Ramirez was the best 3B in the NL. In most years as a Cub, Aramis Ramirez wasn't the best, but he was among the best offensively.

Wish him good luck going forward.

 

[Uman85]

You want a list? Here's a list.

-Pablo Sandoval - better .AVG, .OPS, only 3 less HRs and only 23 less RBIs with over 100 fewer ABs than Ramirez

-David Freese - Over 200 less ABs, nearly the same .AVG, .OBP, better defense and outstanding postseason in only his 2nd MLB year

- Ryan Zimmerman - Younger, better defender, better plate discipline and offensive production is on par with Ramirez

Like I said, 3 or 4 that are better. There's 3 right there. If Wright weren't so injury-prone, he could have a strong case to be just as good as Ramirez offensively and better defensively as well. Like fisch said, the years d3a mentioned, Wright played more than Ramirez. Otherwise there errors and stats would be about the same.

To be the best 3B in the league, you can't just look at offensive stats or defensive stats. You have to look at the whole picture. Ramirez has been a great offensive producer. I'm not arguing against that. His defense is the reason why he's not the BEST. He may be the best offensively, but he's not the best ALL-AROUND. That's all I'm saying.

I respect all of your opinions about his offense and it will be missed. But at the same time, if you can replace his offensive output at another position and plug in a solid defender on the corner, wouldn't you do that going forward? I believe that's the way Theo wants to move going forward and I think it's the right decision. This team is not going to contend next year, so keeping Ramirez wouldn't be much of a benefit IMO.

Better to go younger and build for the future, like Theo hinted at in his press conference.

 

[Uman85]

I think the Silver Slugger vote was helped by the fact that most of the 3B this year either sucked or got hurt. By default, Aramis Ramirez was the best 3B in the NL. In most years as a Cub, Aramis Ramirez wasn't the best, but he was among the best offensively.

Wish him good luck going forward.

More or less, what I alluded to in my last post. I like his offense and he was one of the best offensively in most seasons. But all-around, he may have been top 5, but not the best.

 

[tbo41fan]

You want a list? Here's a list.

-Pablo Sandoval - better .AVG, .OPS, only 3 less HRs and only 23 less RBIs with over 100 fewer ABs than Ramirez

-David Freese - Over 200 less ABs, nearly the same .AVG, .OBP, better defense and outstanding postseason in only his 2nd MLB year

- Ryan Zimmerman - Younger, better defender, better plate discipline and offensive production is on par with Ramirez

Like I said, 3 or 4 that are better. There's 3 right there. If Wright weren't so injury-prone, he could have a strong case to be just as good as Ramirez offensively and better defensively as well. Like fisch said, the years d3a mentioned, Wright played more than Ramirez. Otherwise there errors and stats would be about the same.

To be the best 3B in the league, you can't just look at offensive stats or defensive stats. You have to look at the whole picture. Ramirez has been a great offensive producer. I'm not arguing against that. His defense is the reason why he's not the BEST. He may be the best offensively, but he's not the best ALL-AROUND. That's all I'm saying.

I respect all of your opinions about his offense and it will be missed. But at the same time, if you can replace his offensive output at another position and plug in a solid defender on the corner, wouldn't you do that going forward? I believe that's the way Theo wants to move going forward and I think it's the right decision. This team is not going to contend next year, so keeping Ramirez wouldn't be much of a benefit IMO.

Better to go younger and build for the future, like Theo hinted at in his press conference.

Well i disagree with you about those guys being > Aram, but whatever

3B is a hitting position IMO...a good 1B makes a 3B MILES better at 3rd....look at when Derrek Lee was here....we heard about ARAM's defense, but it wasnt a big deal

As for what Theo has planned, he is the expert, who am I to go against what a great basbeall mind like that thinks? I'll support whatever he does


That being said, I think Aram resigns here :tiptoe:

 

[The Bandit]

Refer to my sig d3a. He's not what he used to be and he doesn't put in the work anymore. dudes a good hitter. But he is replaceable. Might take a couple years but you can make up for his loss. He isn't worth what he is going to command in Free Agency, due to the fact that there is basically no real marketable 3b available other then him. But he is not and never has been the best 3b and never will be. Underrated yes. But not the best. ARod, Longoria, Rolen at a time, Braun when he was a 3b Pujols when he was a 3b, Beltre, and Zimmerman

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

What's the point in responding?

If you're not :cum: to Ramirez, you don't have "baseball knowledge".

lol cmon man this is kind of sad...you are completely blowing our side of the argument out of the proportion

i would argue that your perspective exemplifies this more than ours(except opposite opinion about ramirez...)

 

[nwfisch]

lol cmon man this is kind of sad...you are completely blowing our side of the argument out of the proportion

That's how I felt when explaining Ramirez's shortcomings in the postseason.

It is what it is.

 

[Uman85]

lol cmon man this is kind of sad...you are completely blowing our side of the argument out of the proportion

i would argue that your perspective exemplifies this more than ours(except opposite opinion about ramirez...)

Not at all. You haven't seen what's been said about him in the past. But I digress. Theo doesn't have Ramirez in his future plans, so this is really a moot argument.

Theo has the reigns of this team and two World Series rings. I'm not going to argue against that.

 

[Uman85]

That's how I felt when explaining Ramirez's shortcomings in the postseason.

It is what it is.

Yep. That's exactly how it was. But it's over now.