Silver Ramirez

[CODE_BLUE56]

I won't be at all. I'm actually expecting it. This team and organization is in bad shape, so fixing it won't be easy and the years until it becomes a respectable, well-run organization are going to be tough to watch IMO. But they're necessary in order to make things right.

Rebuilding isn't an overnight fix and it's not easy.

of course...my interest is exactly how ramirez fits into that(i.e. how long he stays with the club and what his impact will be if he's on the team or goneI)

 

[Rice Cube]

of course...my interest is exactly how ramirez fits into that(i.e. how long he stays with the club and what his impact will be if he's on the team or goneI)

If the team was contending they should keep Ramirez.

If the team is not, he best helps by saving them money and netting a draft pick.

 

[DewsSox79]

David Wright Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

Wright has had more Error in every year since Wright in league.

Aramis Ramirez Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

2005 E: Wright-24 A-Ram-10
2006 E: Wright-19 A-Ram-13
2007 E: Wright-21 A-Ram-10

Must i got on..you guys dont know baseball

Figured why not go on:

2008 E: Wright-16 A-Ram 18 (so 1 year so far)
2009 E: Wright -18 A-Ram 10
2010 E: Wright-19 A-Ram 16

so we are going to base this off of errors? really?

 

[Captain Obvious]

Well he was the best hitter at 3rd... ??

We're not smart? You can't even type coherent, complete sentences. :lmao:

No need to insult someone else's "baseball knowledge" because they don't :cum: to Ramirez like you do. His offensive production is replaceable and his D is horrendous.

Theo thinks he's replaceable and so does Brenly. Those are two respectable opinions in baseball. I guess they need to "learn baseball" too then, huh?

It's pointless to even talk about Ramirez.

His offensive production is replaceable, I agree. However, when you replace it, you aren't going to be able to improve this team. This team needs to improve and Ramirez gives them the best shot at doing that. However, if they don't resign Ramirez, that will mean no Fielder. Basically no one. Which I am totally cool with because it means that Thessiah will get to reform this team into a solid model. Then we can get some pitching next year, then some hitting the year after and start to get serious about contending, as draft picks will be starting to become MLB players.

Looking at the error numbers, (not that it's the best way to judge a defense), Ramirez played fewer games than Wright in all years except 06. It's a sad situation when a guy like Ramirez is winning Silver Sluggers.

How is it a sad situation when the best hitter at a position wins a Silver Slugger?

I'd take Wright or Sandoval in building a team over Ramirez.

With that not being the question at hand, whose better with the bat this season, Ramirez is. To me it was stat gathering.

Stat gathering again? Ugh. What makes you think that a player can become better in certain situations than others?

Something called free agency. That's pretty neat. There are options at other positions who produce just as well as Ramirez did offensively and even better.

Yes, but then you lose the production at the other position and have to replace it with someone at 3rd. And that's just making the team neutral. That's not improving the team.

If the team was contending they should keep Ramirez.

If the team is not, he best helps by saving them money and netting a draft pick.

QFT.

 

[nwfisch]

That's just it CO, I want to let Ramirez walk before his skillset rapidly diminishes. I'm willing to see the Cubs rebuild the franchise right. To me, it wouldn't benefit the Cubs to have a stat-gathering 3B going forward.

Stat-gathering means that even though Ramirez's stats look nice, did they really change the outcome of the season? I'll say no. Ramirez didn't make Soriano, Soto or anyone else much better.

 

[daddies3angels]

That's just it CO, I want to let Ramirez walk before his skillset rapidly diminishes. I'm willing to see the Cubs rebuild the franchise right. To me, it wouldn't benefit the Cubs to have a stat-gathering 3B going forward.

Stat-gathering means that even though Ramirez's stats look nice, did they really change the outcome of the season? I'll say no. Ramirez didn't make Soriano, Soto or anyone else much better.

But DeWitt,Baker, LeMaiuh, Vitters will? What a joke.

 

[Rice Cube]

But DeWitt,Baker, LeMaiuh, Vitters will? What a joke.

I think the point is that if the Cubs cannot contend in 2012 and Ramirez probably falls off a cliff in 2013, you don't want to give him that money. Instead, save the money, grab the draft pick, and see if one of your farmhands catches lightning in a bottle or if you can trade/sign a comparable option. In the short term, Aramis' production will be missed, but let him try to win one somewhere else while this team rebuilds.

 

[Captain Obvious]

That's just it CO, I want to let Ramirez walk before his skillset rapidly diminishes. I'm willing to see the Cubs rebuild the franchise right. To me, it wouldn't benefit the Cubs to have a stat-gathering 3B going forward.

Stat-gathering means that even though Ramirez's stats look nice, did they really change the outcome of the season? I'll say no. Ramirez didn't make Soriano, Soto or anyone else much better.

Thinking that Ramirez will rapidly diminish is just an assumption. You do not know that. He could gradually decline, we don't know.

No, they didn't change the outcome of the season. But had his teammates been better, they would have. It's not his fault that his teammates sucked. Had Jose Bautista not been on the Blue Jays, they probably still would have finished 4th in their division. That makes him a stat gatherer too. I guess he wouldn't benefit the Cubs going forward either.

 

[nwfisch]

Thinking that Ramirez will rapidly diminish is just an assumption. You do not know that. He could gradually decline, we don't know.

No, they didn't change the outcome of the season. But had his teammates been better, they would have. It's not his fault that his teammates sucked. Had Jose Bautista not been on the Blue Jays, they probably still would have finished 4th in their division. That makes him a stat gatherer too. I guess he wouldn't benefit the Cubs going forward either.

That's a risk I don't want the Cubs to take going forward.

Ramirez is among the top 5 3B in baseball, and I don't think he can sustain his production for 3 years, and if he does on the Cubs, it will be in a losing effort more than likely.

 

[Lex L.]

I think they should let Ramirez wallk and he's been my favorite Cub over the last several years. I wish I knew what his pitches per at bat are but its not like he's overly selective. He's not as bad as Soriano but what is that saying exactly? I think they need to remake the roster in a way where it has a bunch of guys who work counts and fight for at bats. It's one of the things that has bothered me most about the Jim Hendry era Cubs. For the most part, they've been awful in this regard.

BTW, I don't think letting Ramirez walk precludes us from signing someone.

I dont even care about the top 5 3B business. I see Aramis as a 3-4-5 hitter. Thats his value. Nevermind that he plays 3B. If we can add a middle of the order guy at RF and at 1B, then I don't see the problem with letting him walk. It doesnt really make a difference if we have some average guy at 3B batting 7th and a RF who can hit at 4 verses a poor fielding 3B who can hit at 4 and an average RF, which is likely what the scenario with Ramirez represents.

 

[Captain Obvious]

I think they should let Ramirez wallk and he's been my favorite Cub over the last several years. I wish I knew what his pitches per at bat are but its not like he's overly selective. He's not as bad as Soriano but what is that saying exactly? I think they need to remake the roster in a way where it has a bunch of guys who work counts and fight for at bats. It's one of the things that has bothered me most about the Jim Hendry era Cubs. For the most part, they've been awful in this regard.

BTW, I don't think letting Ramirez walk precludes us from signing someone.

I dont even care about the top 5 3B business. I see Aramis as a 3-4-5 hitter. Thats his value. Nevermind that he plays 3B. If we can add a middle of the order guy at RF and at 1B, then I don't see the problem with letting him walk. It doesnt really make a difference if we have some average guy at 3B batting 7th and a RF who can hit at 4 verses a poor fielding 3B who can hit at 4 and an average RF, which is likely what the scenario with Ramirez represents.

The problem with this argument is that RF and 1B are positions that are supposed to have high production. 3B isn't(anymore). The production there has declined. That is where Ramirez gets his value from. You can't just disregard his position, because that's where his value comes from.

 

[DewsSox79]

Well he was the best hitter at 3rd... ??


His offensive production is replaceable, I agree. However, when you replace it, you aren't going to be able to improve this team. This team needs to improve and Ramirez gives them the best shot at doing that. However, if they don't resign Ramirez, that will mean no Fielder. Basically no one. Which I am totally cool with because it means that Thessiah will get to reform this team into a solid model. Then we can get some pitching next year, then some hitting the year after and start to get serious about contending, as draft picks will be starting to become MLB players.


How is it a sad situation when the best hitter at a position wins a Silver Slugger?



Stat gathering again? Ugh. What makes you think that a player can become better in certain situations than others?



Yes, but then you lose the production at the other position and have to replace it with someone at 3rd. And that's just making the team neutral. That's not improving the team.




QFT.

Really? is that what people are calling him now?

 

[DewsSox79]

The problem with this argument is that RF and 1B are positions that are supposed to have high production. 3B isn't(anymore). The production there has declined. That is where Ramirez gets his value from. You can't just disregard his position, because that's where his value comes from.

WTF? yeah, so you cant supplement the power at another position? please. As long as the balance of power in the lineup, it doesnt matter what position it comes from.

 

[Lex L.]

The problem with this argument is that RF and 1B are positions that are supposed to have high production. 3B isn't(anymore). The production there has declined. That is where Ramirez gets his value from. You can't just disregard his position, because that's where his value comes from.

Not really. The offense typically comes from the corners (1B, 3B, RF, and LF). Truthfully, you probably find more offensive producers at RF and LF than you do at 3B. Notice how I specifically mentioned RF when commenting that its left pocket right pocket.

Nice try, now STFU.

 

[Shawon_Dunston]

WTF? yeah, so you cant supplement the power at another position? please. As long as the balance of power in the lineup, it doesnt matter what position it comes from.

Agreed, but who can the Cubs REALISTICALLY go out and sign or trade to offset the loss of Ramirez? Everyone says, "Well just sign a free agent or make a trade" but who exactly? Odds are the Cubs are not going to make a significant bid to either Albert or Prince. The cupboard is really bare out there outside of them. No good free agents and the Cubs don't have to pieces to make a trade worth doing.

 

[Captain Obvious]

Really? is that what people are calling him now?

So what? Why does it matter?

Not really. The offense typically comes from the corners (1B, 3B, RF, and LF). Truthfully, you probably find more offensive producers at RF and LF than you do at 3B. Notice how I specifically mentioned RF when commenting that its left pocket right pocket.

Nice try, now STFU.

Yes, typically it does. However, when you look at who the 3B are around the league, you'll see that that is likely not to continue. That's why 3B's OPS dropped 50 points from 10-11.

 

[nickofypres]

Who better?

David Wright.

Don't let his fallout fool you. Citi Field really fucked him, and a lot of Met hitters up, not to mention injuries have cost him time. New York is bringing in the walls and lowering them. Look for a huge rebound year for Wright.

 

[Jntg4]

WTF? yeah, so you cant supplement the power at another position? please. As long as the balance of power in the lineup, it doesnt matter what position it comes from.

I tried to explain this to him months ago, lol.

 

[Uman85]

David Wright.

Don't let his fallout fool you. Citi Field really fucked him, and a lot of Met hitters up, not to mention injuries have cost him time. New York is bringing in the walls and lowering them. Look for a huge rebound year for Wright.

:clap:

 

[Captain Obvious]

I tried to explain this to him months ago, lol.

The part that you are not understanding is that the point is to better the team. In order to do so, we need Ramirez. Yes, he is replaceable. However, that's all you will be doing is replacing him. You will be unable to make the team much better.