Silver Ramirez

[nwfisch]

Let's all :cum: to Uman's sig. edobear:

 

[The Bandit]

lol cmon man this is kind of sad...you are completely blowing our side of the argument out of the proportion

i would argue that your perspective exemplifies this more than ours(except opposite opinion about ramirez...)

Do you really need to name whos better? It's pretty obvious. Wright now probably isn't but when he played in Shea was definitly better. Adrian Beltre, Evan Longoria, Arod more then likely, Michael Young, in the NL Chipper in his prime not now way past it, Martin Prado is better defensivly and can get it done at the plate probably not 100 RBI or 40 Homers but a good bat, Ryan Zimmerman is better, Casey McGehee when he had his great year before was better, Polanco at his best is good, Sandoval, Freese, etc.

 

[daddies3angels]

You want a list? Here's a list.

-Pablo Sandoval - better .AVG, .OPS, only 3 less HRs and only 23 less RBIs with over 100 fewer ABs than Ramirez

-David Freese - Over 200 less ABs, nearly the same .AVG, .OBP, better defense and outstanding postseason in only his 2nd MLB year

- Ryan Zimmerman - Younger, better defender, better plate discipline and offensive production is on par with Ramirez

Like I said, 3 or 4 that are better. There's 3 right there. If Wright weren't so injury-prone, he could have a strong case to be just as good as Ramirez offensively and better defensively as well. Like fisch said, the years d3a mentioned, Wright played more than Ramirez. Otherwise there errors and stats would be about the same.

To be the best 3B in the league, you can't just look at offensive stats or defensive stats. You have to look at the whole picture. Ramirez has been a great offensive producer. I'm not arguing against that. His defense is the reason why he's not the BEST. He may be the best offensively, but he's not the best ALL-AROUND. That's all I'm saying.

I respect all of your opinions about his offense and it will be missed. But at the same time, if you can replace his offensive output at another position and plug in a solid defender on the corner, wouldn't you do that going forward? I believe that's the way Theo wants to move going forward and I think it's the right decision. This team is not going to contend next year, so keeping Ramirez wouldn't be much of a benefit IMO.

Better to go younger and build for the future, like Theo hinted at in his press conference.

Pablo DEF even worse then A-Ram. Dude cant move. Pablo not even discussed in silver slugger. Chipper was 2nd

Freese: Il laugh at you all day on this. Freese hit .290 10 HR 50 RBI. he had 3 good weeks, yes at great time but hitters get hot for 3 weeks all the damn time. Frees IS GO AWFULL IN FIELD. Why STL took him out every game when had lead in 7th.

Zimmerman i do like alot. I actually would take Zimmerman over A-Ram in Cubs situation BUT A-Ram has still proven ALOT more then Zimmerman.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

You want a list? Here's a list.

-Pablo Sandoval - better .AVG, .OPS, only 3 less HRs and only 23 less RBIs with over 100 fewer ABs than Ramireznot gonna argue here

-David Freese - Over 200 less ABs, nearly the same .AVG, .OBP, better defense and outstanding postseason in only his 2nd MLB yeardebatable does not have the power that ramirez has...better D but i'd like to see him with a season full of ABs

- Ryan Zimmerman - Younger, better defender, better plate discipline and offensive production is on par with Ramirezramirez has edge on offensive production by zimm's D wins out here...especially with zimm's offensive production coming in only 101 games

Like I said, 3 or 4 that are better. There's 3 right there. If Wright weren't so injury-prone, he could have a strong case to be just as good as Ramirez offensively and better defensively as well. Like fisch said, the years d3a mentioned, Wright played more than Ramirez. Otherwise there errors and stats would be about the same. skeptical on reese...zimm, sandoval definitely agree...wright if he's healthy but i think he's on the decline along with ramirez

To be the best 3B in the league, you can't just look at offensive stats or defensive stats. You have to look at the whole picture. Ramirez has been a great offensive producer. I'm not arguing against that. His defense is the reason why he's not the BEST. He may be the best offensively, but he's not the best ALL-AROUND. That's all I'm saying. i like your overall argument...but im not sure what you mean by the "whole picture"...all you have shown is offensive and defensive stats for your argument..so in your case you really havent shown the whole picture...whatever its arbitrary but something i noticed

I respect all of your opinions about his offense and it will be missed. But at the same time, if you can replace his offensive output at another position and plug in a solid defender on the corner, wouldn't you do that going forward? I believe that's the way Theo wants to move going forward and I think it's the right decision. This team is not going to contend next year, so keeping Ramirez wouldn't be much of a benefit IMOhow do you replace his offense and who do you have in mind for this guy to plug in out of curiosity...i would love to keep ramirez simply because he is our clean up power hitter and he's the best at his position for it....

Better to go younger and build for the future, like Theo hinted at in his press conference.

i think Aramis is probably 3rd or 4th out of the 3rd basemen in the NL...i dont think anything you have said has refuted that..but to say he's simply not that good or anything of the sort is honestly ludicrous

yes his defense is mediocre at best...but consider his offensive prowess...

and i completely understand if theo and the cubs want to part ways with ramirez..there are certainly plausible motives to that...and there are certainly plausible motives for keeping him(which i would like to but i again i understand the whole parting thing)

 

[Uman85]

Pablo DEF even worse then A-Ram. Dude cant move. Pablo not even discussed in silver slugger. Chipper was 2nd

Freese: Il laugh at you all day on this. Freese hit .290 10 HR 50 RBI. he had 3 good weeks, yes at great time but hitters get hot for 3 weeks all the damn time. Frees IS GO AWFULL IN FIELD. Why STL took him out every game when had lead in 7th.

Zimmerman i do like alot. I actually would take Zimmerman over A-Ram in Cubs situation BUT A-Ram has still proven ALOT more then Zimmerman.

Trust me, after I try and decipher the sentences you're attempting to put together, I'm laughing right back at you.

 

[daddies3angels]

Trust me, after I try and decipher the sentences you're attempting to put together, I'm laughing right back at you.

Its a forum. Not english class :angryfinger:

 

[Uman85]

i think Aramis is probably 3rd or 4th out of the 3rd basemen in the NL...i dont think anything you have said has refuted that..but to say he's simply not that good or anything of the sort is honestly ludicrous

yes his defense is mediocre at best...but consider his offensive prowess...

and i completely understand if theo and the cubs want to part ways with ramirez..there are certainly plausible motives to that...and there are certainly plausible motives for keeping him(which i would like to but i again i understand the whole parting thing)

I mentioned 3, all of whom are better ALL-AROUND(that's defensively and offensively) than Ramirez.

I never said he "simply isn't that good". He's good, but he's not the BEST. I don't think that's very hard to understand. If some think he's the best, that's fine. It's an opinion. You've got one, I've got one, your mother's hairdresser has one. They're great.

 

[Uman85]

Its a forum. Not english class :angryfinger:

:beerbang:

 

[Mr. Cub]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsQqmVBFEgw]A Tribute to Aramis Ramirez - YouTube[/ame]

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

I mentioned 3, all of whom are better ALL-AROUND(that's defensively and offensively) than Ramirez.

I never said he "simply isn't that good". He's good, but he's not the BEST. I don't think that's very hard to understand. If some think he's the best, that's fine. It's an opinion. You've got one, I've got one, your mother's hairdresser has one. They're great.

my fault...i made an assumption there...

i thought you were just being too definitive with your first statement

i dont think ramirez is the best 3B in the NL either..NL central i think he has a legitimate case

but certainly i have never glorified him or any of the sort

 

[Uman85]

my fault...i made an assumption there...

i thought you were just being too definitive with your first statement

i dont think ramirez is the best 3B in the NL either..NL central i think he has a legitimate case

but certainly i have never glorified him or any of the sort

I agree. If he's not the best in the Central, he's a close second. I think it's going to be an interesting offseason, not just for the Cubs, but for many teams. I'm excited to see what happens and to see the question marks that many fans have get answered one way or another.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Do you really need to name whos better? It's pretty obvious. Wright now probably isn't but when he played in Shea was definitly better. Adrian Beltre, Evan Longoria, Arod more then likely, Michael Young, in the NL Chipper in his prime not now way past it, Martin Prado is better defensivly and can get it done at the plate probably not 100 RBI or 40 Homers but a good bat, Ryan Zimmerman is better, Casey McGehee when he had his great year before was better, Polanco at his best is good, Sandoval, Freese, etc.

A. i dont care about the AL...this is concerning the NL

B. Zimm and Sandoval are the two i think are better than Ramirez right now..Wright is injury hampered and we'll see on him...Freese i'm sketpical about...more ABs and more experience as a 2B and then i'll say he's better...surely it can be debated that freese is better however

my argument from the beginning is that Ramirez is a top 5 NL 3rd basemen..even with his mediocre D

never said he was the best in the NL and certainly not overall

alot of y'all were being definitive...and i wanted some elaboration...thanks for the clarification(no sarcasm)

 

[nwfisch]

You're welcome

 

[Uman85]

You're welcome

A thread isn't a success without a .

 

[The Bandit]

A. i dont care about the AL...this is concerning the NL

B. Zimm and Sandoval are the two i think are better than Ramirez right now..Wright is injury hampered and we'll see on him...Freese i'm sketpical about...more ABs and more experience as a 2B and then i'll say he's better...surely it can be debated that freese is better however

my argument from the beginning is that Ramirez is a top 5 NL 3rd basemen..even with his mediocre D

never said he was the best in the NL and certainly not overall

alot of y'all were being definitive...and i wanted some elaboration...thanks for the clarification(no sarcasm)

Sorry been going off of D3A claiming he's the best and yada yada so that's what I've been going against. He's easily top 15 in the league. probably top 5 in the NL and definitely top 2 in the Central

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

I agree. If he's not the best in the Central, he's a close second. I think it's going to be an interesting offseason, not just for the Cubs, but for many teams. I'm excited to see what happens and to see the question marks that many fans have get answered one way or another.

agree there

actually my biggest issue now is how you and some are saying ramirez's offensive production is simply replacable or expendable?

how do we compensate for the loss of the largest chunk of overall offensive production on the team? do we hope that a consolidated effort envelops the hole left? we have to hope some guys step up..and some will..on the other hand, some wont

its a reasonable conjecture to say that without ramirez..the offense will dip...now depending on the replacement..the defense may improve marginally but i would argue that the offensive gap left by ramirez is larger than the liability he is on D

i guess it depends on how the rest of the team shapes out..do we get FAs? what are we looking at here? that remains, in some cases, to be seen.

 

[Uman85]

agree there

actually my biggest issue now is how you and some are saying ramirez's offensive production is simply replacable or expendable?

how do we compensate for the loss of the largest chunk of overall offensive production on the team? do we hope that a consolidated effort envelops the hole left? we have to hope some guys step up..and some will..on the other hand, some wont

its a reasonable conjecture to say that without ramirez..the offense will dip...now depending on the replacement..the defense may improve marginally but i would argue that the offensive gap left by ramirez is larger than the liability he is on D

i guess it depends on how the rest of the team shapes out..do we get FAs? what are we looking at here? that remains, in some cases, to be seen.

Unless the Cubs go out and spend big in free agency, I don't see them contending next year or even the year after. With that being said, I think maybe one or two type B free agents will be picked up in free agency for a 1-2 year deal or maybe a few prospects brought up. The load that the Cubs lose from Ramirez will be spread out among a few players going forward until they are serious contenders in 3 years. Theo is the only one who knows at this point. I think the only thing the rest of us can do is just speculate.

 

[Rice Cube]

I don't think Ramirez's offensive production is easily replaceable. His defense can be fixed, but that depends on whether you think the better defender will save more runs than he chokes away at the plate. The offensive production will be replaced in the future, but it's likely not from Ramirez himself. Dude is old, injury-risk, declining. Even though I think the world of him, his time is done and we'll thank him and appreciate the sandwich pick.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Unless the Cubs go out and spend big in free agency, I don't see them contending next year or even the year after. With that being said, I think maybe one or two type B free agents will be picked up in free agency for a 1-2 year deal or maybe a few prospects brought up. The load that the Cubs lose from Ramirez will be spread out among a few players going forward until they are serious contenders in 3 years. Theo is the only one who knows at this point. I think the only thing the rest of us can do is just speculate.

then dont be surprised if in this rebuilding stage we see a dip in offensive production(specifically in the power department)

 

[Uman85]

then dont be surprised if in this rebuilding stage we see a dip in offensive production(specifically in the power department)

I won't be at all. I'm actually expecting it. This team and organization is in bad shape, so fixing it won't be easy and the years until it becomes a respectable, well-run organization are going to be tough to watch IMO. But they're necessary in order to make things right.

Rebuilding isn't an overnight fix and it's not easy.