Sources: Expect Cubs to spend next winter

[KBisBack!]

Stop. Cano and Choo are nowhere near enough to get us into the contenders role. Lets be real here.

Right now this team is horrible.

But do not underestimate how much an influence that adding one of the best hitters in the game (Cano) and another super solid, well above average bat in Choo makes on a team. It would be a massive upgrade. Massive.

IF Rizzo proves he is real and a .290/30/100 guy, adding Cano and Choo along with Soriano and Castro gives the Cubs at least a legitimate major league order instead of one of the worst in baseball.

Hell, you add these two bats and I wouldn't even complain them keeping DeJesus or Schierholz and Valbuena to band aid those positions.

 

[Chris J]

And the Rays never won developing prospects alone either.

heck the Pirates and Royals haven't won diddly in my lifetime developing prospects.

A lot more to look at here about the Rays so youre comment is stupid. The Rays could have very well won a WS if they never had to get rid of Garza and Crawford. And if the had money to spend on one bigger free agent, it wouldve completed their team.

Yes the Pirates have been bad for a long time and have never made the turn, despite their constant good draft picks. It's not just getting the high draft picks, it's having good scouting and a great player development. Same can go for the Royals. Its all a system buddy. Got to have all the right pieces in place

 

[Chris J]

The team is by no measures good. But they arent horrible. A good bullpen gets them a record at or over .500

 

[Chris J]

And fisch you hop on every single bandwagon and trend out there. You have no opinions of your own

 

[nwfisch]

And fisch you hop on every single bandwagon and trend out there. You have no opinions of your own

Says the guy with the Theo avatar.

Talk about bandwagon.

 

[X]

Royals: Wade Davis (from deal with Rays,) Alex Gordon, Billy Butler, Alcides Escobar, will make large attempt at retaining James Shields

Pirates: McCutcheon, Jose Tabata, openly discussing with Neil Walker, McDonald, Garrett Jones, other notable players havent hit

Rays: Committed to Longoria, will make attempt at Price (though not likely,) Matt Moore, Ben Zobrist, talked with Crawford before the ridiculous Boston offer, Gave Carlos Pena a deal after 2007 season.

Theres a difference between showing little interest in trying to sign multiple core players and being completely outbid because they're small market teams, will.

Several of these players mentioned are nice pieces, but not core players, or pieces you build around, imo...But I don't really have a dog in the fight...

 

[KBisBack!]

The Royals have historically shown little interest at signing MULTIPE CORE PLAYERS TO LONG TERM DEALS.

Funny.

I listed five players including three that are currently on the roster.

Exactly what is your definition of multiple core players then?

A 4 year deal that covers 3 arbitration years and maybe 1 free agent year? Not really a long term deal.

Well I also listed a potential 6 year deal in Escobar and a potential 8 year deal for Perez.

Exactly what is your definition of long term then? You whined and cried about a ten year deal as being too long for Fielder. So if 6 and 8 year deals aren't long term and 10 years is too long, is the only acceptable long term deal a 9 year deal then?

However, the Royals likely only signed Sweeney to an extension to save face after trading away Damon & Dye within recent years.

Or being one of the smallest market teams in all of baseball knew they could only sign one of those players to a long term deal and choose Sweeney who was one of the premier hitters in the AL in the early 2000's.

Whatever fits your agenda. I am sure you know much more about the Royals than I do.

What did they do with Zach Greinke not long after signing him to that extension?

Honored his request to be traded. HE ASKED TO BE TRADED.

details, details, details.

Is Alcides Escobar really a "core" player? He is a solid defensive SS (perhaps Gold Glove level), but based upon your own posts on Darwin Barney are you going to go against your defense alone not being that valuable theory? Don't want to be a hypocrite, do you?

Darwin Barney makes Alcides Escobar look like freaking Alex Rodriguez.

Stop being an idiot.

Escobar posted a .721 OPS last year and Barney hasn't even remotely sniffed .700. Escobar has slumped badly the last couple weeks and his OPS of .650 dwarfs Barney's current .544 and not far from Barney's career high of .666.

Barney is another pitcher in the batting order. Escobar is considerably better offensively and we haven't even touched his superior base running. Escobar stole more bases last year than Barney has his entire career.

 

[nwfisch]

http://www.chicitysports.com/forum/showthread.php/17344-Relax-Epstein-won-t-be-new-GM-%28speculation-thread%29/page3

Not bandwagon at all.

 

[KBisBack!]

Got to have all the right pieces in place

Exactly.

Have to have all the right pieces in place.

Including going out and signing and adding quality free agents to pair with a strong farm system.

It is difficult to win just on free agency alone. It is harder to win on system alone.

That is why many of the smarter people around here have been saying the Cubs should be doing BOTH. They have the resources to do it.

 

[Willrust]

Royals: Wade Davis (from deal with Rays,) Alex Gordon, Billy Butler, Alcides Escobar, will make large attempt at retaining James Shields

Pirates: McCutcheon, Jose Tabata, openly discussing with Neil Walker, McDonald, Garrett Jones, other notable players havent hit

Rays: Committed to Longoria, will make attempt at Price (though not likely,) Matt Moore, Ben Zobrist, talked with Crawford before the ridiculous Boston offer, Gave Carlos Pena a deal after 2007 season.

Theres a difference between showing little interest in trying to sign multiple core players and being completely outbid because they're small market teams, will.

Pat, there is a difference between doing something historically, and doing something within the past 2-3 years.

Royals have extended Escobar and Perez to long term deals. Billy Butler will be 29 years old after the 2015 season when his deal with the option is done. Do you see the Royals extending him again? Wade Davis has not signed an extension with the Royals. Define a large attempt at retaining James Shields. Is it larger than a baby's arm? He does have an option that will be worth 12 to 13.5M depending upon escalator clauses, so that will tell what the Royals have planned for the future.

The largest free agent contract given by the Pittsburgh Pirates in the history of their franchise is... Care to take a guess? The answer will be at the bottom.

You are absolutely correct about the Rays extending Longoria, Zobrist and Moore. That goes completely against what they had previously done with Garza, Crawford, Upton, Shields & likely Price; you know historically what they have done. BTW, don't be surprised if they try moving Longoria when that 2nd extension kicks in around 2016 or Zobrist when the 7M option kicks in next year.

The largest FA contract signed in the history of the Pittsburgh Pirates belongs to Russell Martin. A 2 year deal worth a whopping 17M. Do you seriously want to compare the way the Pirates run their organization to the Cubs?

 

[Boobaby1]

I wouldn't mind getting Headley, however, think the asking price is gonna be to rich to get so far a one hit wonder.

I would dangle Almora, Vogelbach, and Barney to Seattle for Kyle Seager if that would get a phone call back.

Extend Shark and Garza, sign Choo, Beltran, and re-sign Schierholz for the bench or used if Soriano is traded.

After trading Feldman (5 mil) and Dejesus (5 mil after buyout) at the deadline, the Cubs will have freed up that money, Marmol ( 9.75 million) is done after this year, and Soriano (18 mil) has one year left. There is at least 20 million coming off the books.

The line-up could go:

SS Castro
CF Choo
1B Rizzo
RF Beltran
3B Seager
LF Soriano
C Castillo
2B Watkins

Pitching: Shark, Garza, Gray/Appel, E-Jax, Wood, Baker, Villy.

This to me would add core players in Seager, Appel/Gray, cost maybe an additional 15 million on the payroll, not empty the farm, and still get a real good pick next year too.

Just a thought.

 

[patg006]

The largest FA contract signed in the history of the Pittsburgh Pirates belongs to Russell Martin. A 2 year deal worth a whopping 17M. Do you seriously want to compare the way the Pirates run their organization to the Cubs?

Based on what? Most received in a year? Andrew McCutcheon in 2017 at 14.2 million, or his option in 18 of 14.75 million? Longevity? McCutcheon again. Average per year? 8.5 million for Russell versus McCutcheon's 7 year, 66.15 million? Averaging 9.4 million a year.

Even at 6 years, 51.5 he originally signed without the option--he's still at 8.58 million a year--more than Martin.

Or does this information go against that agenda thingy?

Whoops

 

[Willrust]

Funny.

I listed five players including three that are currently on the roster.

Exactly what is your definition of multiple core players then?


You listed players over a 13 year period of which few were on the team at the same time.

Well I also listed a potential 6 year deal in Escobar and a potential 8 year deal for Perez.

And I gave you credit for Perez

Exactly what is your definition of long term then? You whined and cried about a ten year deal as being too long for Fielder. So if 6 and 8 year deals aren't long term and 10 years is too long, is the only acceptable long term deal a 9 year deal then?



Or being one of the smallest market teams in all of baseball knew they could only sign one of those players to a long term deal and choose Sweeney who was one of the premier hitters in the AL in the early 2000's.

That is another take on it, but yes. They were too cheap to try and extend them all so chose 1.

Whatever fits your agenda. I am sure you know much more about the Royals than I do.




Honored his request to be traded. HE ASKED TO BE TRADED.

details, details, details.

And I am sure that they had zero desire to trade him and his salary at the peak of his value.

Darwin Barney makes Alcides Escobar look like freaking Alex Rodriguez.

Stop being an idiot.

Escobar posted a .721 OPS last year and Barney hasn't even remotely sniffed .700. Escobar has slumped badly the last couple weeks and his OPS of .650 dwarfs Barney's current .544 and not far from Barney's career high of .666.

Barney is another pitcher in the batting order. Escobar is considerably better offensively and we haven't even touched his superior base running. Escobar stole more bases last year than Barney has his entire career.

Career OPS:
Barney - .647
Escobar - .662

Saying that anyone makes Alcides Escobar look like Alex Rodriguez is fucking crazy. You should take an anti-psychotic for that. As for comparing their defense, you can do that as soon as Escobar wins a gold glove. And again, I question Escobar as a "core" player. I have a feeling you would too, if it weren't me that suggested it.

 

[Willrust]

Based on what? Most received in a year? Andrew McCutcheon in 2017 at 14.2 million, or his option in 18 of 14.75 million? Longevity? McCutcheon again. Average per year? 8.5 million for Russell versus McCutcheon's 6 year, 66.15 million? Averaging over 11 million a year.

Or does this information go against that agenda thingy?

Wow, when did Andrew McCutcheon become a FREE AGENT!!!

Read, before you try going on your agenda rant.

 

[Willrust]

Exactly.

Have to have all the right pieces in place.

Including going out and signing and adding quality free agents to pair with a strong farm system.

It is difficult to win just on free agency alone. It is harder to win on system alone.

That is why many of the smarter people around here have been saying the Cubs should be doing BOTH. They have the resources to do it.

And just because the Cubs didn't go out and spend hundreds of millions in 2012 or 2013 doesn't mean that they will never go out and sign the right free agents to supplement the youth of the organization. Exhibit A is the article of which this thread began.

 

[The Bandit]

Right now this team is horrible.

But do not underestimate how much an influence that adding one of the best hitters in the game (Cano) and another super solid, well above average bat in Choo makes on a team. It would be a massive upgrade. Massive.

IF Rizzo proves he is real and a .290/30/100 guy, adding Cano and Choo along with Soriano and Castro gives the Cubs at least a legitimate major league order instead of one of the worst in baseball.

Hell, you add these two bats and I wouldn't even complain them keeping DeJesus or Schierholz and Valbuena to band aid those positions.

Really? I don't know if I can see them as contenders with that or not... what would the lineup look like?
Castro
Choo
Cano/Rizzo
Rizzo/Cano
Soriano
Valbuena
Castillo
instert random player

?

middle of the lineup is solid but streaky with Soriano and Rizzo (so far) top of the order can produce singles but k's a lot in Castro, and the bottom outside of Castillo who is decent doesn't have much to offer... it's a solid 500 maybe a little better but idk if I'd give it the contending badge yet, maybe a player away or so

Based on what? Most received in a year? Andrew McCutcheon in 2017 at 14.2 million, or his option in 18 of 14.75 million? Longevity? McCutcheon again. Average per year? 8.5 million for Russell versus McCutcheon's 7 year, 66.15 million? Averaging 9.4 million a year.

Even at 6 years, 51.5 he originally signed without the option--he's still at 8.58 million a year--more than Martin.

Or does this information go against that agenda thingy?

Whoops

Reading skills dude... he said FA signing in the history of the organization. And it's McCutchen.

 

[CSF77]

Really? I don't know if I can see them as contenders with that or not... what would the lineup look like?
Castro
Choo
Cano/Rizzo
Rizzo/Cano
Soriano
Valbuena
Castillo
instert random player

?

middle of the lineup is solid but streaky with Soriano and Rizzo (so far) top of the order can produce singles but k's a lot in Castro, and the bottom outside of Castillo who is decent doesn't have much to offer... it's a solid 500 maybe a little better but idk if I'd give it the contending badge yet, maybe a player away or so


Reading skills dude... he said FA signing in the history of the organization. And it's McCutchen.

They have control over Schierholtz and Hairston next year also.

So as far as team control:
LF Soriano til 2014
CF team option on Dejesus
RF 1 year of arb Schierholtz and last year on Hairston
3B Valbuena in Arb 2.
SS Castro in a deal.
2B Barney going to arb 1
1B Rizzo locked up
C Castillo under team control.

To be honest they do not have to do anything just sign their arb cases and pull their options.

Rotation:

Wood arb 1
Shark Arb 2
Garza F/A
Villenueva 2nd year
Feldman F/A
Baker F/A

This is a higher concern right now and going into the off season.

At min they need to think of getting a 5 man rotation and bare mins.


On minor deal:

Resign Dioner Navarro (30). Castillo hits RH pitching better. Navarro a S/H makes a solid back up who hits LH pitching better.

F/A SP:

Matt Garza (30)
Ricky Nolasco (31)
Shaun Marcum (32)
Paul Maholm (32)
Tim Lincecum (30)
Josh Johnson (30)
Phil Hughes (28)
Dan Haren (33)
Gavin Floyd (31) (Wouldn't be surprised if they did with him getting shut down)

There are options going on via F/A in SP.

Looking at each position:

LF: they are not getting out of that deal. No need to address it until 2015.

CF: Have 1 option year on Dejesus. They have Borbon under control. (Arb Eligible: 2014, Free Agent: 2018 ) Szczur should be in AAA next year. Big pick was a CF. I do not see a big investment here.

RF: Next year they can keep the same situation. Combined RF has 7 HR and 26 RBI's. Last years investment was on Soler who is projected to RF. Can easily be on the team by 2015. Again not seeing an investment here.

3B: Big concern IMO.

SS: locked up

2B: Big concern

1B Locked up

C: Need to resign Navarro. Small concern.

Valbuena may be an answer to 2B/3B if he can prove he can hit LH pitching. They need a better hitter then Barney though. Watkins maybe an answer. He projects as a lead off.

 

[SilenceS]

They have control over Schierholtz and Hairston next year also.

So as far as team control:
LF Soriano til 2014
CF team option on Dejesus
RF 1 year of arb Schierholtz and last year on Hairston
3B Valbuena in Arb 2.
SS Castro in a deal.
2B Barney going to arb 1
1B Rizzo locked up
C Castillo under team control.

To be honest they do not have to do anything just sign their arb cases and pull their options.

Rotation:

Wood arb 1
Shark Arb 2
Garza F/A
Villenueva 2nd year
Feldman F/A
Baker F/A

This is a higher concern right now and going into the off season.

At min they need to think of getting a 5 man rotation and bare mins.


On minor deal:

Resign Dioner Navarro (30). Castillo hits RH pitching better. Navarro a S/H makes a solid back up who hits LH pitching better.

F/A SP:

Matt Garza (30)
Ricky Nolasco (31)
Shaun Marcum (32)
Paul Maholm (32)
Tim Lincecum (30)
Josh Johnson (30)
Phil Hughes (28)
Dan Haren (33)
Gavin Floyd (31) (Wouldn't be surprised if they did with him getting shut down)

There are options going on via F/A in SP.

Looking at each position:

LF: they are not getting out of that deal. No need to address it until 2015.

CF: Have 1 option year on Dejesus. They have Borbon under control. (Arb Eligible: 2014, Free Agent: 2018 ) Szczur should be in AAA next year. Big pick was a CF. I do not see a big investment here.

RF: Next year they can keep the same situation. Combined RF has 7 HR and 26 RBI's. Last years investment was on Soler who is projected to RF. Can easily be on the team by 2015. Again not seeing an investment here.

3B: Big concern IMO.

SS: locked up

2B: Big concern

1B Locked up

C: Need to resign Navarro. Small concern.

Valbuena may be an answer to 2B/3B if he can prove he can hit LH pitching. They need a better hitter then Barney though. Watkins maybe an answer. He projects as a lead off.

Szczur will be in AAA this year and could see some time in September. He is doing very well in AA. Watkins has hit like shit, but has taken a ton of walks. Szczur would be a leadoff hitter over Watkings in my opinion if they were on the same team.

Also, I know he has a long way to go but Brett Jackson has only struck out twice in the past 22 at bats. Lets hope this progress continues.

 

[FirstTimer]

Robinson Cano: 2B, New York Yankees
Shin-Soo Choo: OF, Cincinnati Reds
Curtis Granderson: OF, New York Yankees
Hunter Pence: OF, San Francisco Giants
Josh Johnson: SP, Toronto Blue Jays
Tim Lincecum: SP, San Francisco Giants
Ricky Nolasco: SP, Miami Marlins

Pretty underwhelming list to spend money on aside from Granderson, who has yet to play a game this year, and will be 33 years old at the start of next year.

No way the Yankees let Cano go so I'm not really even looking at him.

 

[CSF77]

Szczur will be in AAA this year and could see some time in September. He is doing very well in AA. Watkins has hit like shit, but has taken a ton of walks. Szczur would be a leadoff hitter over Watkings in my opinion if they were on the same team.

Also, I know he has a long way to go but Brett Jackson has only struck out twice in the past 22 at bats. Lets hope this progress continues.

AA Matt Szczur: .291/.366/.381 134 AB 15 BB to 20 SO. 6 of his 39 hits for extra bases. 13 SB with 2 CS.
So single/walk with solid speed. I can see that one.

I would in this scenerio hit Watkins #2 also.

AAA Logan Watkins .237/.384/.407 28 BB 35 SO 4 SB with 5 CS. Most he has had was 28 in 2012. Last year he got 76 BB with 97 SO's.
BA wise this is a low water for him. .281 in 2012, .281 in 2011, .261 in 2010, .326 in 2009. I believe he can hit around .270 and keep a OBA near .400.

Just seems like it would play chaos with pitching. Szczur on 1st Watkins taking pitches running up pitch counts fast.


Jackson IDK.
Apr: .219/.315/.406 7 BB 24 SO (64 AB)
May: .333/.391/.429 2 BB 2 SO (21 AB)

If he can keep it up through June then it is something to think on.

Of them all Szczur has looked the best. I'd promote him and bump Sappelt out of CF in Iowa.