Statistically, CW is getting out played by every quarterback drafted after him

[bamainatlanta]

No it's not. Montez isn't just about sacks. He currently is missing Billings, as is the whole line. Look what our DL did without Billings AND MOntez against the run, and then what they did against a very good running team in GB adding Montez back in. Night and day.

I certainly get that. He’s the most important guy on that line. I do find it funny some were expecting Aaron Donald for a 2nd round pick

 

[Montucky]

Um Bears D has not given up more than 21 points in any game Sweat has played. The one game he missed they got destroyed by Zona. They are currently 7 in scoring defense.

I’m not doubting anything about what he did last year. He was great, but also all that performance really went for nothing. The Bears still had no shot at the playoffs.

And now he’s in his late-twenties, injured and not racking up the statistical production that he did last year. Sure, he contributes in other ways and is integral to the defenses overall success. Not doubting that, but I am doubting his longevity. It’s not a great sign when guys get huge bags and immediately start struggling with injuries.

 

[TheEarlofRobin]

Sweat isn't the problem. He was a good player who was available to the Bears, and they acquired him. The problem is that Poles hasn't found any superstar players at any position area. That puts a lot of pressure on guys who are good but not great. Maybe Caleb will be a superstar QB. Jaylon Johnson needs to be more consistent but perhaps he can up his game. The Bears haven't had a top notch player since Khalil Mack.

 

[remydat]

I’m not doubting anything about what he did last year. He was great, but also all that performance really went for nothing. The Bears still had no shot at the playoffs.

And now he’s in his late-twenties, injured and not racking up the statistical production that he did last year. Sure, he contributes in other ways and is integral to the defenses overall success. Not doubting that, but I am doubting his longevity. It’s not a great sign when guys get huge bags and immediately start struggling with injuries.

He had 64 total pressures last year and is on track for 75 if you give him same number of pass rush snaps as he had last year.

So his pressure to sack rate is down a bit but not unusual for pass rushers as sacks tend to come in bunches. The other thing is his pass snaps are down because teams are running more due to Bears run D going from No 1 last year to the 20s. So not as many pass rush opportunities.

 

[baselman1974]

With James Pierce Jr. on the other side next year. The Bears will dominate the trenches with Robert Saleh as DC.

 

[Montucky]

Sweat isn't the problem. He was a good player who was available to the Bears, and they acquired him. The problem is that Poles hasn't found any superstar players at any position area. That puts a lot of pressure on guys who are good but not great. Maybe Caleb will be a superstar QB. Jaylon Johnson needs to be more consistent but perhaps he can up his game. The Bears haven't had a top notch player since Khalil Mack.

Jaylon Johnson wasn’t drafted by Ryan Poles, either.

 

[SlickWilly]

The Bears traded away Christian Darrisaw and Charles Cross for Justin Fields. Imagine how different things are if they just chilled out, put a veteran quarterback in there and built the roster up with those two guys. It’s too soon to see what could have been with Caleb Williams, and we’ll never really know what offers were on the table for first overall, but it just feels like they made that same mistake again.

And then the Chase Claypool trade and impulsive overdrafting of Darnell Wright. The Bears really are dogs chasing their own tails.

You gotta break the cycle, that’s first and foremost. No more whacky trades, it has been a theme with this franchise since they acquired Jay Cutler.

And imagine never taking a chance on a franchise QB. You have to try dipshit. It doesn't work out for every team.

 

[SlickWilly]

I think you’re missing the point.

Cutler was 2-11 against the Packers.
Trubisky was 1-6.
Fields was 0-6.

That’s getting absolutely clownishly owned.

On the other hand, Caleb actually played well and led the Bears on what should have been a game winning drive in his very first start against the Packers as a rookie.

And he still lost, because like all the other QB's mentioned, he has a dog shit coaching staff. That's the problem with this organization.

 

[Montucky]

He had 64 total pressures last year and is on track for 75 if you give him same number of snaps.

So his pressure to sack rate is down a bit but not unusual for pass rushers. The other thing is his pass snaps because teams are running more due to Bears run D going from No 1 last year to the 20s. So not as many pass rush opportunities.

OK but the point I’m making here is that this season is basically lost unless the Bears perform some sort of miracle. So what happens next year, when he is age 29? Or the year after when he’s age 30? I am saying there is trending to be some intersecting point where Montez Sweat, by some combination of getting old and getting hurt, is going to be less desireable than players the Bears had available to them at 40th overall last year.

Which would be OK if Montez Sweat pushed them over the top to become a playoff team, but that’s not what is happening. The Bears sold the future to boost the present, but the jump they saw as a result of adding Sweat is just two varying levels of “not good enough”.

Are you still defending the Chase Claypool trade these days, remy?

 

[Montucky]

And imagine never taking a chance on a franchise QB. You have to try dipshit. It doesn't work out for every team.

Well yeah they’ve been trying and it’s been pretty much a giant fucking disaster. So maybe its time to “try” something else.

 

[SlickWilly]

Well yeah they’ve been trying and it’s been pretty much a giant fucking disaster. So maybe its time to “try” something else.

LOL! Brilliant strategy!! The Bears should never draft a QB again cause it's never worked!!

 

[jive]

My point is that everything they were ever gonna get out of Montez Sweat they might have already got, and that going forward from this season on you’d rather have whatever you could have gotten in the second round instead.

And what do you have to show for that? Two seasons where the Bears never really had a shot to compete for anything. We’ll see if he turns it around but right now it looks like its trending poorly.

Interesting point. It's almost 3 years later, and I wonder if the tear down was actually necessary or even an improvement. It definitely hurt the vibe in the locker room.

Poles traded away Mack for a 2nd rounder, and shed his huge contract. But the following season traded a 2nd rounder to get Sweat and then sign him to a big contract. Sweat is definitely younger, but the production between the two the last couple seasons are similar. I don't think that Edmunds is performing better than Roquan, and he wasn't a cheap signing. Although I do like the TJ Edwards pickup. Three years later, and Poles still hasn't found a G better than James Daniels. Darnell Mooney and David Montgomery are outperforming their tenure at Chicago, and the contracts they signed for. As if it really did all come down to coaching, which is the biggest failure of Poles.

 

[bamainatlanta]

It is a marathon not a sprint.

No we must make decisions on a weekly basis. It’s the way.

 

[brundleflyguy]

It's coaching. The Bears always act like draft picks come fully formed and can't get any better. So they never try to coach up players (and often coach them down by forcing them to do things they aren't good at).

The trick is to get a good draft pick (and to be fair, many draft picks are good enough to compete with the proper coaching and support). Then you properly coach them and build a game plan around their strengths (rather than forcing them into a system where they play poorly). That gives you a chance to win.

The Bears consistently do the opposite. Draft a player, ignore his strengths, force him to play a system that he does poorly in and give zero coaching to make them better. And strangely, it's a disaster (well actually, it often is at just mediocre, which is worse because coaches don't get fired for being mediocre in Chicago, and you end up with middle tier picks).

I don't see this changing until the ownership decides that winning is important. And I can't see that happening as long as merchandise and tickets sell.

 

[remydat]

OK but the point I’m making here is that this season is basically lost unless the Bears perform some sort of miracle. So what happens next year, when he is age 29? Or the year after when he’s age 30? I am saying there is trending to be some intersecting point where Montez Sweat, by some combination of getting old and getting hurt, is going to be less desireable than players the Bears had available to them at 40th overall last year.

Which would be OK if Montez Sweat pushed them over the top to become a playoff team, but that’s not what is happening. The Bears sold the future to boost the present, but the jump they saw as a result of adding Sweat is just two varying levels of “not good enough”.

Are you still defending the Chase Claypool trade these days, remy?

The fact the team may not make the playoffs lies with the Offense and Flus not with Sweat and the D. This is the Mack argument all over again.

Who are you saying you wanted at pick 40 that would be of more value than Sweat. Name names bearing in mind that without Sweat we almost certainly have to draft DL with that 2nd unless you saying we opt for Verse or Turner over Rome.

 

[Montucky]

The fact the team may not make the playoffs lies with the Offense and Flus not with Sweat and the D. This is the Mack argument all over again.

Who are you saying you wanted at pick 40 that would be of more value than Sweat. Name names bearing in mind that without Sweat we almost certainly have to draft DL with that 2nd unless you saying we opt for Verse or Turner over Rome.

Well the guy who was taken at that pick is playing very well for the Eagles. The Bears have a fine nickel of their own.

If you want a position that has been a source of immense frustration? Zach Frazier looks to be a long-term answer at center for the Steelers. He could’ve been had there, easily.

Braden Fiske went 39th, could’ve made a very modest trade-up to snatch him.

And absolutely I disagree very strongly with the Rome Odunze pick. That absolutely should’ve been spent on a lineman. Odunze isn’t a bad player but that was a luxury when the Bears had so many pressing issues.

 

[ThatGuyRyan]

Sure, but I simply believe that if you are a first overall draft pick throwing to a plethora of weapons that have great NFL resumes and were all very costly to acquire that you should muster at least one touchdown combined in four games against the Redskins, Cardinals, Patriots and Green Bay.

A lot of talk about “putting the Bears in a position to win”, well…not scoring for a calendar month ain’t it. Right now he’s Bryce Young.

I am not arguing that, I brought it up. I am saying Waldron is a dipshit too.

 

[remydat]

Well the guy who was taken at that pick is playing very well for the Eagles. The Bears have a fine nickel of their own.

If you want a position that has been a source of immense frustration? Zach Frazier looks to be a long-term answer at center for the Steelers. He could’ve been had there, easily.

Braden Fiske went 39th, could’ve made a very modest trade-up to snatch him.

And absolutely I disagree very strongly with the Rome Odunze pick. That absolutely should’ve been spent on a lineman. Odunze isn’t a bad player but that was a luxury when the Bears had so many pressing issues.

Ok you are all over the place. Let's settle on an actual position here. So you wanted say Latham and Fiske over Odunze and Sweat?

If so, I can see the argument for that but probably still prefer Odunze and Sweat pending ehat we do this offseason with the OL.

 

[Les Grossman]

Sweat isn't the problem. He was a good player who was available to the Bears, and they acquired him. The problem is that Poles hasn't found any superstar players at any position area. That puts a lot of pressure on guys who are good but not great. Maybe Caleb will be a superstar QB. Jaylon Johnson needs to be more consistent but perhaps he can up his game. The Bears haven't had a top notch player since Khalil Mack.

Jaylon Johnson has been arguably one of the best CBs in the league this year, not sure what more you can ask of him. Nobody even throws his direction generally.

And by superstar, do you mean 'marketable' ? lol

 

[ThatGuyRyan]

Jaylon Johnson IS the super star of this team lol..