The Adam Dunn Debate Thread

[brett05]

He is the least of our problems.

You misspelled Chris Sale there.

 

[brett05]

Dunn's play has certainly gone up since Jun 1st, no doubt.
I hope someone else thinks he's got value and makes an offer to get him out.

 

[DewsSox79]

we need to start pointing the finger at guys like ramirez, viciedo (while still young) de aza, Rios (especially defense) Konerko (aging), Keppinger, Flowers (supposed to be good at defense, which he is not). There is really no threat in the lineup. No one is scared to pitch to Dunn and teams know if they walk him no one will drive him in, plus he isnt the fastest guy in the league. Dunn is really the bright spot.

 

[brett05]

we need to start pointing the finger at guys like ramirez, viciedo (while still young) de aza, Rios (especially defense) Konerko (aging), Keppinger, Flowers (supposed to be good at defense, which he is not). There is really no threat in the lineup. No one is scared to pitch to Dunn and teams know if they walk him no one will drive him in, plus he isnt the fastest guy in the league. Dunn is really the bright spot.

:andruw:

 

[FirstTimer]

:andruw:

Offensively he is.

He leads your team in OPS, OPS+, HR's, RBI's, SLG, BB's, He's 3rd in TB, R's, and OBP etc.

He's 5th in oWAR. He's the top of an uninspiring bunch at the plate but I'd say he's been your best offensive player ahead of Rios and DeAza

 

[BigSoxHurt35]

I won't shit on konerko because his age was gona catch up sooner rather than later. Now Ramirez viciedo and kepp have been bad although Ramirez has a decent avg but his d and HRs aren't what they should be. Viciedo is still young ill give him a break. Kepp needs canned

 

[brett05]

Thanks Dews for quoting FT, I don't read his posts.

That's like holding 2 or 3 of the worst 1,500 yard rushing seasons in the NFL. If you're the worst of some of the best that's still pretty damn good and productive.

It's been done over 300 times and he's got three of the top five worst ever. Not as productive as anyone would want to make it out to be.

 

[TheChicagoFan]

Who cares that he doesn't hit for average? If that's what you expected from Adam Dunn when the Sox signed him you're stupid and were bound to be upset. The White Sox signed him to hit homeruns and provide power in a powerless lineup the year before.

 

[Capt. Serious]

People were so fast to tear Rios a new one but continue to make excuses for Dunn.

 

[FirstTimer]

Thanks Dews for quoting FT, I don't read his posts.



It's been done over 300 times and he's got three of the top five worst ever. Not as productive as anyone would want to make it out to be.

Name them. Rank them. Based on what are they 3 of the 5 worst ever?

You're just saying it to say it.

Again, having 3 of the 5 worst 40 HR seasons ever is better than never having a 40HR season in general for a player like Dunn.

You're bitching just to *****.

I did some research.

http://pinstripepundits.com/2013/01/the-worst-40-home-run-seasons-of-all-time.html

If you're basing it on this there is a reason Dunn is there. His defensive value reduces his offensive value. Pretty bad reasoning though seeing as defensive metrics are habitually wonky and on top of this Dunn is still a positive rated player overall despite his incredibly horrid dWAR.

Even still the author goes on to conclude repeatedly that Dunn and Granderson aren't bad and the numbers are actually pretty good relative to the league and the average player in general(which like I said being the "worst of the best" still makes you pretty good)

Other charts there also show Dunn by wRC as being perfectly fine and not in that category of 3 of the 5 worst ever. Depends on the metrics and the values.


Per PBT:

Going by OPS+ instead, Batista’s season still ranks as the worst, since there was quite a bit more offense back in 2000 than there is now. Batista had just a 102 OPS+, meaning he was barely a league-average hitter with his .263 average and .307 OBP. Dunn’s OPS+ this year is 112, while Granderson was at 113 entering the night (it’ll probably climb to 115 or so as a result of his big game). No one else came in below Dunn’s 112, but the Rockies’ Vinny Castilla also finished at 112 as a 40-homer guy in Coors Field in 1996.

Sure Dunn's 40 HR years aren't Ruthian but you'd rather have him in your lineup than not doing what he does. Even at his "worst" his 40HR season put him easily above the league average in OPS+

 

[JosMin]

I have never, in my entire life..... would have imagined somebody actually ranking a 40+ home run season as "among the worst 40+ home run seasons ever". It's 40 fucking home runs.... when is that a bad thing? That's like saying getting your dick sucked three times in a day is crap because one day you got 4 blow jobs instead.

I rarely venture in the Sox forum, but riddle me this -- can you solely blame Adam Dunn that the White Sox are 29th in runs scored? How about that they're 27th in OBP or 24th in slugging? Or what about the fact that, as a team, their strikeout to walk ratio is 3.5 to 1? Adam Dunn never turned into the uber OBP/40 homer guy everyone wanted, but he's still 44th on the career home run list and in a lineup filled with issues offensively, he's the last thing you need to be worrying about. At the end of the day, at least you know what you're getting with Dunn.

 

[brett05]

I rarely venture in the Sox forum, but riddle me this -- can you solely blame Adam Dunn that the White Sox are 29th in runs scored? How about that they're 27th in OBP or 24th in slugging? Or what about the fact that, as a team, their strikeout to walk ratio is 3.5 to 1? Adam Dunn never turned into the uber OBP/40 homer guy everyone wanted, but he's still 44th on the career home run list and in a lineup filled with issues offensively, he's the last thing you need to be worrying about. At the end of the day, at least you know what you're getting with Dunn.

1) Just initially an awful analogy so I removed it from further comment.
2) No one is solely blaming Dunn. No one.
3) I know what I am getting out of Dunn, he's also being paid to do a lot more like his normal slash lines. I also know what I am going to get out of the rest of the players on the team which is why just about everyone is expendable.

 

[FirstTimer]

1) Just initially an awful analogy so I removed it from further comment.
2) No one is solely blaming Dunn. No one.
3) I know what I am getting out of Dunn, he's also being paid to do a lot more like his normal slash lines. I also know what I am going to get out of the rest of the players on the team which is why just about everyone is expendable.

I thought the analogy was great.

I'm putting it back in.


I have never, in my entire life..... would have imagined somebody actually ranking a 40+ home run season as "among the worst 40+ home run seasons ever". It's 40 fucking home runs.... when is that a bad thing? That's like saying getting your dick sucked three times in a day is crap because one day you got 4 blow jobs instead.

 

[JosMin]

I thought the analogy was great.

I'm putting it back in.


I have never, in my entire life..... would have imagined somebody actually ranking a 40+ home run season as "among the worst 40+ home run seasons ever". It's 40 fucking home runs.... when is that a bad thing? That's like saying getting your dick sucked three times in a day is crap because one day you got 4 blow jobs instead.

If some board members don't like oral sex, that's perfectly fine. More biddies for me. But come on, how on Earth could you complain about a 40 home run season?

 

[JosMin]

1) Just initially an awful analogy so I removed it from further comment.
2) No one is solely blaming Dunn. No one.
3) I know what I am getting out of Dunn, he's also being paid to do a lot more like his normal slash lines. I also know what I am going to get out of the rest of the players on the team which is why just about everyone is expendable.

The analogy rocked. Come on, Brett.

That aside, I know nobody is saying Adam Dunn is the reason the White Sox suck. But let's be honest -- if you take him out of that lineup, how much worse are you going to be? It's not like the White Sox have anything remotely close in the pipeline that could replicate Dunn's run production. The fact is this -- when Kenny Williams signed Dunn, he probably never figured his BA would dip to such astronomically bad measures, but if he's still walking a lot, driving in runs and hitting homers, then you might as well keep his contract. It's not like you could peddle him off on anyone else, anyway.

 

[BigSoxHurt35]

This thread is now making me:lol::rolling:

 

[brett05]

That aside, I know nobody is saying Adam Dunn is the reason the White Sox suck. But let's be honest -- if you take him out of that lineup, how much worse are you going to be? It's not like the White Sox have anything remotely close in the pipeline that could replicate Dunn's run production.

Probably right. Never said he should be replaced mostly for that reason, just giving correct criticism.

The fact is this -- when Kenny Williams signed Dunn, he probably never figured his BA would dip to such astronomically bad measures,

I don't think anyone did.

but if he's still walking a lot,

But his ob% stinks which is what he was in part paid to do.

driving in runs

Given his production with runners in scoring position he's not really doing that.

and hitting homers,

He is doing that lately.

then you might as well keep his contract. It's not like you could peddle him off on anyone else, anyway.

You are dead on there. No one wants him. If he was productive someone would take him for a decent trade. You proved my point right there.

 

[TheChicagoFan]

I have never, in my entire life..... would have imagined somebody actually ranking a 40+ home run season as "among the worst 40+ home run seasons ever". It's 40 fucking home runs.... when is that a bad thing? That's like saying getting your dick sucked three times in a day is crap because one day you got 4 blow jobs instead.

I rarely venture in the Sox forum, but riddle me this -- can you solely blame Adam Dunn that the White Sox are 29th in runs scored? How about that they're 27th in OBP or 24th in slugging? Or what about the fact that, as a team, their strikeout to walk ratio is 3.5 to 1? Adam Dunn never turned into the uber OBP/40 homer guy everyone wanted, but he's still 44th on the career home run list and in a lineup filled with issues offensively, he's the last thing you need to be worrying about. At the end of the day, at least you know what you're getting with Dunn.

Well what if you get really bad head 3 times in a day? I have a buddy who has had to fake it before.....

 

[FirstTimer]

Well what if you get really bad head 3 times in a day? I have a buddy who has had to fake it before.....

Uhhhhhhhh....his girlfriend must be an idiot.

 

[BigSoxHurt35]

Dunn has been absolutely robbed of 2 RBIs tonight. **** that shift