The Carnivore Diet

[inchibearfan]

Real good info. Over the years, I can recall all the times this or that food was said to be so good for you, only to hear how bad it is a short time later. So, to recap, veggies, grains, sugars , red meat, fish, fruit etc. all bad. LMAO Pretty much does not leave anything, does it?

Also, in the video, he did hit briefly on that one thing I mentioned before that is even worse for us than sugar and it's not a carb. It is seed oils and probably just as prevalent in the average diet as sugar is. He linked these seed oils to cancer but there is plenty more other damage they cause including a lot of weight gain. They are basically waste turned into oils. They are extremely high in omega 6 to omega 3 ratio. A heavy amount of processing is required for seed oils which means more bad stuff needs be used to make them which also oxidizes and turns them rancid very quickly. Stuff like solvents, toxic chemicals, high heating and naturally occurring trans-fats add to the health risks. The bad news is the very worst seed oils are the ones most used by people and restaurants because they are just cheap. They are, no doubt, a leading cause for the obesity epidemic.

Cooking oils just are not regulated much at all by the FDA. They basically just view the oils as being interchangeable. Truth is, if you think you can just stick with olive oil and avocado oil, you'll be disappointed to know they are often mixed with these seed oils to increase profit margins. You'd have to do your research and find those very few brands that have been shown to be legit and can be trusted.

So, if you're looking to reduce/eliminate sugar to reduce your weight/improve health, that's still a real good place to start. Eliminating seed oils would be an even better place to start and something that people could easily let go of as it has no taste. The problem would just come with trying to avoid it cause it is added to a lot of common foods.

Avoiding seed oils will also lead to not eating 95% of processed food as it is in nearly all of it. I think the seed oils cause the human body to not be able to process carbs/sugar properly, i.e., metabolic disorders. Although people are eating 20x the amount of sugar humans ate historically as well which is another issue.

 

[FozzyBear]

Avoiding seed oils will also lead to not eating 95% of processed food as it is in nearly all of it. I think the seed oils cause the human body to not be able to process carbs/sugar properly, i.e., metabolic disorders. Although people are eating 20x the amount of sugar humans ate historically as well which is another issue.

I had too much process foods this week. got fat too. i put on 10 pounds in the last 3 days.. def all fat, right?

anywho had fam shit to do and ended up going to a family labour camp.. dominos was payment. ate two pizzas. eating all those carbs just made me want to eat more.. never felt satiated. felt full, but still hungry. inflammation pains in me legs started roughly 20 minutes after eating.. had a carb crash and felt the need for a nap too.. didnt but was tired.

had 2 more pizzas the following day finishing the fam tasks.. painting a kitchen.. same feelings.. weighed day 3.. 10 pounds heavier.. def retained at least an extra gallon+ of waters.

def lots of seed oils.. seed oils use to be used for farm equipment right? now they feed them to humans... seems healthy

havent exercised the last three day either.. going into to day 4 and am debating.. havent had 4 days off from even just doing light walking in a long time..... carbs making me feel lazy.. that and da injury to me achilles/heel area has slowed me down. it feels better after the extra rest and maybe i should exercise.. idk.. maybe 1 mo day off.. still gots a scan set up for it in 2 days time..

ordered a proper but budget spin bike.. gonna def cross train mo betta going forward.. will try and limit running to 2-3 days mixed in with rowing/spin bike. gonna see how long 10 pounds of water takes to flush after going back to me way of eating just meat. probably 1-2 days

 

[Warrior Spirit]

Avoiding seed oils will also lead to not eating 95% of processed food as it is in nearly all of it. I think the seed oils cause the human body to not be able to process carbs/sugar properly, i.e., metabolic disorders. Although people are eating 20x the amount of sugar humans ate historically as well which is another issue.

I don't think seed oils cause sugar to be worse than it is. I think both are bad and if you look back to when the obesity epidemic exploded, it was around 1980. Fats were being blamed for people being overweight back then, but what followed has caused the amount of obesity in the world to double since that time and also it's the cause of many more overweight people than not.

Back then, trans fats were considered the heart healthy alternative to other natural fats by the "experts". Sugar also wasn't seen to be much of a problem, at least when compared to fats. So the entire food industry shifts towards more heavily processed foods and it would be a few decades before it had to be admitted that the "experts" were as wrong as wrong can be when it came to trans fats and everything else they wanted to use to replace saturated fats.

A sensible look back at where it all went wrong will show it was a compound effect where people were now getting not only more sugar in their diets but also the most unhealthy fat of all in the form of trans fats and seed oils being used way more than ever. The introduction of vegetable oils to replace saturated fats was probably the biggest factor in turning the world fat so quickly. Before that time, even fast food places used lard and tallow(animal fats). Now, when you go to pretty much any restaurant, you're going to get a good helping of vegetable oil. A person's only alternative would be to stop eating out and/or ordering in so often, but people are too lazy for that.

 

[FozzyBear]

I don't think seed oils cause sugar to be worse than it is. I think both are bad and if you look back to when the obesity epidemic exploded, it was around 1980. Fats were being blamed for people being overweight back then, but what followed has caused the amount of obesity in the world to double since that time and also it's the cause of many more overweight people than not.

Back then, trans fats were considered the heart healthy alternative to other natural fats by the "experts". Sugar also wasn't seen to be much of a problem, at least when compared to fats. So the entire food industry shifts towards more heavily processed foods and it would be a few decades before it had to be admitted that the "experts" were as wrong as wrong can be when it came to trans fats and everything else they wanted to use to replace saturated fats.

A sensible look back at where it all went wrong will show it was a compound effect where people were now getting not only more sugar in their diets but also the most unhealthy fat of all in the form of trans fats and seed oils being used way more than ever. The introduction of vegetable oils to replace saturated fats was probably the biggest factor in turning the world fat so quickly. Before that time, even fast food places used lard and tallow(animal fats). Now, when you go to pretty much any restaurant, you're going to get a good helping of vegetable oil. A person's only alternative would be to stop eating out and/or ordering in so often, but people are too lazy for that.

in the 80s fcc changed regulations iirc and the marketing of junk food was pushed upon da kids. i cant remember what paper i had read that touched on it.. its been over a decade.

mcdonalds fries use to be fried in beef tallow.

carbs and water retention in me body be funny. took day 4 off too but still pissed and slept off 6 of those pounds. will push out the other 4 on our stupid upright exercise bike today.

 

[1COBearsfan]

I’m not sure if I’ve already responded in this thread or not but I’ve been on and off carnivore for a while, having young kids can be a motherfucker on your diet… But my wife and I are back on it in the last month or so. I’m feeling better and don’t feel so bloated. We’ve been some form of low carb evangelists for a long time and in fact are heading to Vegas in a month for a low carb conference.

I’ve also listened to the Fundamental Health podcast by Paul Saladino almost since the beginning. His evolution has been super interesting and seems to make sense to me. That said, I think I’m going to introduce some fruit and honey in a little bit to see how that goes. I’m definitely still going to eat plenty of animal meat, fat, organs(liver).

An interesting hypothesis I’ve seen recently goes like this: Metabolic dysfunction is a symptom of damage to mitochondria in our cells -> mitochondria being damaged means they don’t produce ATP and thus the body doesn’t function properly/efficiently-> mitochondrial damage is caused by damage from excess linoleic acid(from too much processed seed oils). I’m sure thats not expressed correctly but hopefully you get the idea

A couple articles about the subject

Dr. Cate on: How seed oils are slowing down your metabolism & ruining your health

Sarah Kleiner interviews Dr. Cate Shanahan to discuss how seed oils are slowing down your metabolism and ruining your health by contributing to rapid aging, insulin resistance, and mental health disorders. Dr. Cate also shares how we can fix what's broken about our metabolism.

drcate.com

It All Comes Down To Energy

Modern biology centers around a reductionist, mechanical view of the human body that permeates both conventional and alternative medicine. Each bodily system is considered to be separate and indepe…

www.jayfeldmanwellness.com

And a couple of websites with loads of info regarding the damage of excess seed oils

Fire In A Bottle

Metabolic Enhancement Shop & Blog

fireinabottle.net

Yelling Stop

Reflections on barefoot-style running, healthy diets, and moving in the right direction.

yelling-stop.blogspot.com

 

[Warrior Spirit]

I’m not sure if I’ve already responded in this thread or not but I’ve been on and off carnivore for a while, having young kids can be a motherfucker on your diet… But my wife and I are back on it in the last month or so. I’m feeling better and don’t feel so bloated. We’ve been some form of low carb evangelists for a long time and in fact are heading to Vegas in a month for a low carb conference.

I’ve also listened to the Fundamental Health podcast by Paul Saladino almost since the beginning. His evolution has been super interesting and seems to make sense to me. That said, I think I’m going to introduce some fruit and honey in a little bit to see how that goes. I’m definitely still going to eat plenty of animal meat, fat, organs(liver).

An interesting hypothesis I’ve seen recently goes like this: Metabolic dysfunction is a symptom of damage to mitochondria in our cells -> mitochondria being damaged means they don’t produce ATP -> mitochondrial damage is caused by damage from excess linoleic acid(from too much processed seed oils). I’m sure thats not expressed correctly but hopefully you get the idea

A couple articles about the subject

Dr. Cate on: How seed oils are slowing down your metabolism & ruining your health

Sarah Kleiner interviews Dr. Cate Shanahan to discuss how seed oils are slowing down your metabolism and ruining your health by contributing to rapid aging, insulin resistance, and mental health disorders. Dr. Cate also shares how we can fix what's broken about our metabolism.

drcate.com

It All Comes Down To Energy

Modern biology centers around a reductionist, mechanical view of the human body that permeates both conventional and alternative medicine. Each bodily system is considered to be separate and indepe…

www.jayfeldmanwellness.com

And a couple of websites with loads of info regarding the damage of excess seed oils

Fire In A Bottle

Metabolic Enhancement Shop & Blog

fireinabottle.net

Yelling Stop

Reflections on barefoot-style running, healthy diets, and moving in the right direction.

yelling-stop.blogspot.com

Yep. I think when speaking of any type elimination diet, the 3 things you'd want to avoid most;

1. Seed Oils
2. Maltodextrin.**AKA dextrin, modified food starch, glucose syrup, corn starch, food starch, and corn syrup.
3. Sugar

I saw Saladino once in a sit down talk w/ Thomas DeLauer. Had some interesting takes on things.

 

[FozzyBear]

Yep. I think when speaking of any type elimination diet, the 3 things you'd want to avoid most;

1. Seed Oils
2. Maltodextrin.**AKA dextrin, modified food starch, glucose syrup, corn starch, food starch, and corn syrup.
3. Sugar

I saw Saladino once in a sit down talk w/ Thomas DeLauer. Had some interesting takes on things.

Is delauer that roids guy who acts like hes natural and always flip flops on what diet works and pretends to know more than he does cause he read a biased study?

 

[1COBearsfan]

Yep. I think when speaking of any type elimination diet, the 3 things you'd want to avoid most;

1. Seed Oils
2. Maltodextrin.**AKA dextrin, modified food starch, glucose syrup, corn starch, food starch, and corn syrup.
3. Sugar

I saw Saladino once in a sit down talk w/ Thomas DeLauer. Had some interesting takes on things.

I think I’d amend this to

1) seed oils(even including fish and olive oils)
2) any form of seed/nut/legume
3) flours(wheat or other paleo or keto approved flours, which are commonly ground up seeds/nuts
4)refined table sugar(“sugar” from sweet or non-sweet fruits is just a carbohydrate energy source

But we’re closer to agreeing than not

 

[Warrior Spirit]

Is delauer that roids guy who acts like hes natural and always flip flops on what diet works and pretends to know more than he does cause he read a biased study?

Yeah, that's the one.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

I think I’d amend this to

1) seed oils(even including fish and olive oils)
2) any form of seed/nut/legume
3) flours(wheat or other paleo or keto approved flours, which are commonly ground up seeds/nuts
4)refined table sugar(“sugar” from sweet or non-sweet fruits is just a carbohydrate energy source

But we’re closer to agreeing than not

Don't see how you put olive oil and fish oil on the same level as seed oil. Nowhere near as bad as seed oils. Not heated, refined, bleached, deoderized etc like seed oils. Nothing like seed oils and would be way down the list of things to avoid. A very high percentage of people would consider both fish and olive oils to be healthy...and compared to seed oils they are. I have no need for olive oil so not gonna try too hard to defend it but, given a quality source, I see no harm.

Even with seed oils, there are better expeller pressed and unrefined versions of those same type oils that won't be near as harmful as the heavily processed seed oils. Problem is that would make their smoke points much lower and price tag higher so pretty much no use at all as cooking oils go. LMAO. But if you're reading a list of ingredients on an item and see something like unrefined palm oil, you need not think that's as bad as the heavily processed seed oils cause it's not. Not exactly good for you either, but still not near as bad.

Can just group flours with sugar, both are just as refined.

Maltodextrin, while not sweet or regarded as a sugar, very much acts worse than sugar. It is a GMO that is highly processed and highly refined, known to lead to belly fat and gut inflammation. It is also even higher on the glycemic index than sugar.

 

[1COBearsfan]

Before I go further with this thread I want to say; if anyone reading this is happy with their diet and feels like their health is optimal, don’t pay any attention to what I’m saying. Keep doing what you’re doing. If you feel like there can be some progress made then you can start to experiment on yourself

Don't see how you put olive oil and fish oil on the same level as seed oil. Nowhere near as bad as seed oils. Not heated, refined, bleached, deoderized etc like seed oils. Nothing like seed oils and would be way down the list of things to avoid. A very high percentage of people would consider both fish and olive oils to be healthy...and compared to seed oils they are. I have no need for olive oil so not gonna try too hard to defend it but, given a quality source, I see no harm.

Even with seed oils, there are better expeller pressed and unrefined versions of those same type oils that won't be near as harmful as the heavily processed seed oils. Problem is that would make their smoke points much lower and price tag higher so pretty much no use at all as cooking oils go. LMAO. But if you're reading a list of ingredients on an item and see something like unrefined palm oil, you need not think that's as bad as the heavily processed seed oils cause it's not. Not exactly good for you either, but still not near as bad.

Can just group flours with sugar, both are just as refined.

Maltodextrin, while not sweet or regarded as a sugar, very much acts worse than sugar. It is a GMO that is highly processed and highly refined, known to lead to belly fat and gut inflammation. It is also even higher on the glycemic index than sugar.

Olive/fish oil is weak structurally like a refined seed oil so it will oxidize the same way and have the same damaging effects. Also, olive oil is often cut with differing seed oils to increase their profitability and fish oils are often rancid before they are in their finished form

They may not be as bad in terms of the refinement process and disgusting solvents that can’t be completely removed but they are not the amazeballs magic health bullet they’re made out to be

Omega-3s Are NOT The “Healthy Fats”

Omega-3s are all the rage nowadays. Everybody’s taking fish oil – it’s the new miracle cure, featured on the news, on every health site, and in the supermarkets. Foods like salmon, flaxseeds,…

www.jayfeldmanwellness.com

The difference between flour and white table sugar in their most common, refined forms is pretty negligible so…tomato, potahto. That argument isn’t worth continuing

The maltodextrin, various starch powders, and/or syrups argument is valid as well. But if anyone is getting as far into the dietary weeds as considering a carnivore diet, they should be rejecting anything with those ingredients to begin with. Not just seeing those ingredients on a package but the fact that something is packaged to begin with should be a non-starter, in general, to begin with

 

[Warrior Spirit]

Before I go further with this thread I want to say; if anyone reading this is happy with their diet and feels like their health is optimal, don’t pay any attention to what I’m saying. Keep doing what you’re doing. If you feel like there can be some progress made then you can start to experiment on yourself


Olive/fish oil is weak structurally like a refined seed oil so it will oxidize the same way and have the same damaging effects. Also, olive oil is often cut with differing seed oils to increase their profitability and fish oils are often rancid before they are in their finished form

They may not be as bad in terms of the refinement process and disgusting solvents that can’t be completely removed but they are not the amazeballs magic health bullet they’re made out to be

Omega-3s Are NOT The “Healthy Fats”

Omega-3s are all the rage nowadays. Everybody’s taking fish oil – it’s the new miracle cure, featured on the news, on every health site, and in the supermarkets. Foods like salmon, flaxseeds,…

www.jayfeldmanwellness.com

The difference between flour and white table sugar in their most common, refined forms is pretty negligible so…tomato, potahto. That argument isn’t worth continuing

The maltodextrin, various starch powders, and/or syrups argument is valid as well. But if anyone is getting as far into the dietary weeds as considering a carnivore diet, they should be rejecting anything with those ingredients to begin with. Not just seeing those ingredients on a package but the fact that something is packaged to begin with should be a non-starter, in general, to begin with

I've pointed out several times, both olive oil and avocado oil are often mixed with seed oils. I don't even pretend it's just a small problem. I'd say 85% of these oils available in stores are either rancid or mixed with seed oils in the name of profit. That's why I did preface it by saying olive oil, from a good source, is nowhere near as bad as seed oils. Obviously if mixed with seed oils, it's every bit as bad as them. I can't even name many reputable brands if asked. I just know for avocado oil, Chosen is a good brand to choose cause that's what the research/testing led me to.

The article linked to is just the opinion of 1 man and, frankly, I don't care about his opinion. You look at the Mediterranean diet that is most often touted as being superior to all others and it is pretty heavy on fish and seafood in general. And sea food is the greatest source of omega 3. I've also seldom heard omega 3s revered so much, as the author suggests. In the western diet, it's been more a thing about fixing the Omega 6 to omega 3 ratio as the west diet is known to have an incredibly high amount of omega 6 and an incredibly low amount of omega 3s.

If we want to talk about the bulk of the population being overweight and sickly, the biggest problem besides a food supply put out by an industry that thinks of people as garbage disposals, is all the deception.

Hey, I like to fat shame as much as the next guy, but the population has been lied to and mistreated for so long when it comes to the nutrition info coming from the mainstream, it's no wonder there is so much obesity and ignorance. The food industry, much like the medical industry, is not there for the people. They are both there for profit over all else.

Lied to about trans fats for decades. Lied to about the quality of these seed oils that are being used almost exclusively now. Grass fed doesn't necessarily mean even mostly grass fed. Cage free means just about nothing. Organic? Maybe, maybe not. How can you trust these money hungry connivers?

 

[1COBearsfan]

I've pointed out several times, both olive oil and avocado oil are often mixed with seed oils. I don't even pretend it's just a small problem. I'd say 85% of these oils available in stores are either rancid or mixed with seed oils in the name of profit. That's why I did preface it by saying olive oil, from a good source, is nowhere near as bad as seed oils. Obviously if mixed with seed oils, it's every bit as bad as them. I can't even name many reputable brands if asked. I just know for avocado oil, Chosen is a good brand to choose cause that's what the research/testing led me to.

The article linked to is just the opinion of 1 man and, frankly, I don't care about his opinion. You look at the Mediterranean diet that is most often touted as being superior to all others and it is pretty heavy on fish and seafood in general. And sea food is the greatest source of omega 3. I've also seldom heard omega 3s revered so much, as the author suggests. In the western diet, it's been more a thing about fixing the Omega 6 to omega 3 ratio as the west diet is known to have an incredibly high amount of omega 6 and an incredibly low amount of omega 3s.

If we want to talk about the bulk of the population being overweight and sickly, the biggest problem besides a food supply put out by an industry that thinks of people as garbage disposals, is all the deception.

Hey, I like to fat shame as much as the next guy, but the population has been lied to and mistreated for so long when it comes to the nutrition info coming from the mainstream, it's no wonder there is so much obesity and ignorance. The food industry, much like the medical industry, is not there for the people. They are both there for profit over all else.

Lied to about trans fats for decades. Lied to about the quality of these seed oils that are being used almost exclusively now. Grass fed doesn't necessarily mean even mostly grass fed. Cage free means just about nothing. Organic? Maybe, maybe not. How can you trust these money hungry connivers?

That article has 42 references, it’s a little more than his opinion.

And my problems with the Mediterranean diet and/or the Blue Zone nonsense would completely derail this thread so I’ll just say that anyone gushing about it’s effectiveness should be taken as a grain of salt

 

[Ares]

I only eat 8.27 oz of grass fed elk fried in grass fed beef tallow once per 18 hours.

Once per week I eat an entire rotisserie chicken including the bones and cartilage.

This diet is the only diet anyone anywhere should eat or I will scoff at them mercilessly for their idiotic consumption of non-God-tier foods.

Like I'm eating the early-2000s Runescape-cooked-shark tier food and other people eat like basically dirt and fiberglass.

Idk why every other person doesn't just hunt a few elk on their friend Tony's land up in Alaska every 6-8 months.

Diet is like pretty easy bro.

 

[1COBearsfan]

It should be easy enough to pop some dumpster pigeons on your way to Tony’s land. They’re a decent meal too

 

[FozzyBear]

I only eat 8.27 oz of grass fed elk fried in grass fed beef tallow once per 18 hours.

Once per week I eat an entire rotisserie chicken including the bones and cartilage.

This diet is the only diet anyone anywhere should eat or I will scoff at them mercilessly for their idiotic consumption of non-God-tier foods.

Like I'm eating the early-2000s Runescape-cooked-shark tier food and other people eat like basically dirt and fiberglass.

Idk why every other person doesn't just hunt a few elk on their friend Tony's land up in Alaska every 6-8 months.

Diet is like pretty easy bro.

It is easy. just eat meat..

you could buy a rotisserie chicken everyday from walmart if you wanted to be lazy n make it ez.. just add some sort of fat to it... pour some ghee on it.. buy ghee too 2b lazy.

try carnivore for a few months.. youll lean up and be slaying 3 n 4s in no time..

 

[Ares]

It is easy. just eat meat..

you could buy a rotisserie chicken everyday from walmart if you wanted to be lazy n make it ez.. just add some sort of fat to it... pour some ghee on it.. buy ghee too 2b lazy.

try carnivore for a few months.. youll lean up and be slaying 3 n 4s in no time..

I'll have you know a solid 5 hit on me in an elevator in San Diego last September.

I wanted to be left alone then, and I still do now lol.

 

[FozzyBear]

I'll have you know a solid 5 hit on me in an elevator in San Diego last September.

I wanted to be left alone then, and I still do now lol.

have them milk you first.. then get them to leave you alone. thats how winning is done

 

[Warrior Spirit]

It is easy. just eat meat..

you could buy a rotisserie chicken everyday from walmart if you wanted to be lazy n make it ez.. just add some sort of fat to it... pour some ghee on it.. buy ghee too 2b lazy.

try carnivore for a few months.. youll lean up and be slaying 3 n 4s in no time..

Bad idea. Bad stuff including sugar in the seasoning these places glob on their rotisserie chickens.

 

[FozzyBear]

Bad idea. Bad stuff including sugar in the seasoning these places glob on their rotisserie chickens.

i havent eaten one in 12-14 years so I wouldnt know. Find a place that doesnt cake it with sugar. Salt brine shit and no bbq sauce/rubs