The Chicago Bulls are ranked 27th in offense. Here's why, and how Hoiberg can fix it

[Scoot26]

Well I mean he's not Chris Paul or anything...he's never really been a pass first PG as much as he says he wants to be (ex Team USA). Imo other than the bonehead 3's he took last year he's not really been "low IQ" at all. Low compared to those really heady PGs like CP3, Rondo, and heck, even Hinrich, yes, but not like Nick Young or JR Smith bad.

And DeMarcus Cousins.


Rose is probably average to below average. If anything, the studying of the game and what not made him worst over the year (taking ill-advised three's all the time last season for instance).

Rose's instincts were good, I don't think his head is very good. You see it throughout all of his career from shot selection, the missing key free throws, and the shit he simply says. I do think most of his goodness was purely athleticism and instincts. Not thinking and just playing. He wasn't so bad that he's awful in the clutch like Cousins, but enough where he does play head games with himself, especially on the free throw line.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Personally, other than last year I didn't really have a problem with Rose's shot selection. The FT thing I guess is true, but he was generally able to make clutch FTs from what I remember. He's definitely missed a few, and I'm not sure how's he's done this year in the clutch, but I don't think he's ever lacked confidence at the line or anything like that during the time leading up to his MVP year. Of course, there's that obvious example from Memphis that you can use as a historical claim.

 

[Scoot26]

Personally, other than last year I didn't really have a problem with Rose's shot selection. The FT thing I guess is true, but he was generally able to make clutch FTs from what I remember. He's definitely missed a few, and I'm not sure how's he's done this year in the clutch, but I don't think he's ever lacked confidence at the line or anything like that during the time leading up to his MVP year. Of course, there's that obvious example from Memphis that you can use as a historical claim.

Times I can think he missed clutch FT's

Memphis championship game

Game 6 2009 playoffs vs Boston (we won anyways)

Game 4 vs Miami in 2011 ECF (we lost in OT)

Several times during the 2011-12 season, games I remember in particular were against Miami and against NYK (lost both games)

There's some game in either his MVP year or also 2011-12 we lost to the Clippers because of his missed free throws. I understand you can't have em all, but thats just something I figured would follow him in his career given what happened in the championship game.

 

[Enasic]

And DeMarcus Cousins.


Rose is probably average to below average. If anything, the studying of the game and what not made him worst over the year (taking ill-advised three's all the time last season for instance).

Rose's instincts were good, I don't think his head is very good. You see it throughout all of his career from shot selection, the missing key free throws, and the shit he simply says. I do think most of his goodness was purely athleticism and instincts. Not thinking and just playing. He wasn't so bad that he's awful in the clutch like Cousins, but enough where he does play head games with himself, especially on the free throw line.

This sums it up for me. Average to below average IQ who was at his best reacting and not thinking. He had very good instincts. Have him in attack mode without having to think too much and the results were usually good. That worked well until the Miami series when they were able to really key in on him and he wasn't smart enough to think his way out of it. He even said after the series that when he watched tape with Thibs there was so many things he didn't see that he could have done better. He was only 22 at the time, so it was pretty damned forgivable, but he never really figured it out in his head. He beat you with pure speed and athleticism.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Times I can think he missed clutch FT's

Memphis championship game

Game 6 2009 playoffs vs Boston (we won anyways)

Game 4 vs Miami in 2011 ECF (we lost in OT)

Several times during the 2011-12 season, games I remember in particular were against Miami and against NYK (lost both games)

There's some game in either his MVP year or also 2011-12 we lost to the Clippers because of his missed free throws. I understand you can't have em all, but thats just something I figured would follow him in his career given what happened in the championship game.

Yeah that's fair. It just seems to me he's made them more often than he missed.

 

[Scoot26]

Yeah that's fair. It just seems to me he's made them more often than he missed.

There are regular season games he has..2011 vs Indiana he made 3 clutch free throws to send that game into OT... he fouled out and the Bulls still lost, but he made them. I know I'm remembering the bad more than the good. I think the bad has happened in bigger moments though than any good.

 

[clonetrooper264]

There are regular season games he has..2011 vs Indiana he made 3 clutch free throws to send that game into OT... he fouled out and the Bulls still lost, but he made them. I know I'm remembering the bad more than the good. I think the bad has happened in bigger moments though than any good.

That might be true. If you're gonna count the biggest stages it'd probably be that Memphis championship game, the 3OT Boston game, and game 4 vs Miami and as you noted, he missed in every one of those. But...what can you do? Those last two games who else do you trust to shoot those FTs anyway? Now we have Butler and I guess Gasol who I'd trust to make one of those shots, perhaps in addition to Rose if you think he's gonna choke in the biggest moments, but it's not like other great players haven't missed clutch FTs on big stages either.

 

[Scoot26]

That might be true. If you're gonna count the biggest stages it'd probably be that Memphis championship game, the 3OT Boston game, and game 4 vs Miami and as you noted, he missed in every one of those. But...what can you do? Those last two games who else do you trust to shoot those FTs anyway? Now we have Butler and I guess Gasol who I'd trust to make one of those shots, perhaps in addition to Rose if you think he's gonna choke in the biggest moments, but it's not like other great players haven't missed clutch FTs on big stages either.

LeBron's missed plenty as well. Every great player misses from time to time, Rose, who isn't on the big stage that often, has shown more often than not, he can't be trusted at the line.

 

[clonetrooper264]

LeBron's missed plenty as well. Every great player misses from time to time, Rose, who isn't on the big stage that often, has shown more often than not, he can't be trusted at the line.

I suppose neither can Kawhi Leonard lol

 

[Scoot26]

I suppose neither can Kawhi Leonard lol

I think Leonard more than made up for it in 2014.

 

[clonetrooper264]

I think Leonard more than made up for it in 2014.

Easiest way to not fail in the clutch is to ensure there is no clutch situation

 

[Scoot26]

Easiest way to not fail in the clutch is to ensure there is no clutch situation

Correct. My point was Leonard played out of his mind in those Finals, while Rose spent 3 playoffs injured.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Correct. My point was Leonard played out of his mind in those Finals, while Rose spent 3 playoffs injured.

Once again, how dare Rose get injured

 

[Scoot26]

Once again, how dare Rose get injured

:yep:

Been screwing up the Bulls ever since!

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

When was the last time Rose dunked? His MVP season was mainly all driving the basket now he's just chucking up shots from anywhere and it shows in his FG%.

MVP Year:

.445 FG%
.481 FG% within 0-2 feet of hoop

Current Season:

.355 FG%
.381 FG% within 0-2 feet of hoop

That's absolutely atrocious.

 

[Scoot26]

When was the last time Rose dunked? His MVP season was mainly all driving the basket now he's just chucking up shots from anywhere and it spews in his FG%.

Odd, there's an article about this in the Sun Times today...Its like you knew...

The answer is April of last year.
http://chicago.suntimes.com/basketb...ick-rose-hasnt-dunked-game-since-middle-april

 

[clonetrooper264]

Rose needs to stop being a wimp and throw dat ball down

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

Rose needs to stop being a wimp and throw dat ball down

If you are at .381 FG% within 2 feet of the basket, there's a problem.

 

[clonetrooper264]

If you are at .381 FG% within 2 feet of the basket, there's a problem.

Yeah the problem is he finishes at a worse rate than I do in a pick up game.

 

[Enasic]

I'm not sure how well Rose can throw it down these days. I mean, he could probably still dunk...but then again so can E'Twaun Moore and nobody is calling for ET to hammer a power dunk down. Rose probably has average explosion these days.