The Chicago Bulls are ranked 27th in offense. Here's why, and how Hoiberg can fix it

[clonetrooper264]

I'm not sure how well Rose can throw it down these days. I mean, he could probably still dunk...but then again so can E'Twaun Moore and nobody is calling for ET to hammer a power dunk down. Rose probably has average explosion these days.

E'Twuan had a pretty sick alley oop dunk earlier in the year or in preseason or something. I'm pretty sure if Rose wanted to he could pull off something better. He probably doesn't because of his knees. Kind of lame as that's never stop Wade from dunking, but I guess I can understand where he's coming from if that's the case. Based on this season though, it doesn't look promising for Rose yamming it on someone.

 

[cjswan232482]

Rose can still dunk but it is the landing part he struggles with. A lot of this is mental and that Gibson elbow the first day of preseason did not help

 

[Enasic]

E'Twuan had a pretty sick alley oop dunk earlier in the year or in preseason or something. I'm pretty sure if Rose wanted to he could pull off something better. He probably doesn't because of his knees. Kind of lame as that's never stop Wade from dunking, but I guess I can understand where he's coming from if that's the case. Based on this season though, it doesn't look promising for Rose yamming it on someone.

Rose probably could pull off something better. Not sure how much better though. He doesn't look as explosive as he did even last season. It could be that he's just not going full out and playing at like 80% of his full throttle in which case, he shouldn't be playing. It's one thing to play at less than your max and still be a productive player. It's another thing to not be going full out and competing for the worst starting PG in the league.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Rose probably could pull off something better. Not sure how much better though. He doesn't look as explosive as he did even last season. It could be that he's just not going full out and playing at like 80% of his full throttle in which case, he shouldn't be playing. It's one thing to play at less than your max and still be a productive player. It's another thing to not be going full out and competing for the worst starting PG in the league.

Honestly, I think he probably shouldn't be playing, but he's playing so that people don't keep ragging on him for being injured.

 

[Enasic]

Honestly, I think he probably shouldn't be playing, but he's playing so that people don't keep ragging on him for being injured.

I didn't mean like not play at all, although we would probably improve as a team if that happened. That's just not realistic though...the Bulls aren't going to sit a healthy player making 20 mil a season. I would like for him to play drastically less minutes. No more than 20 and I think Noah's minutes should go up some. Or if Jo is going to play the same minutes, he absolutely should be playing at the end of games. He's simply a better player than Niko and Taj. Not playing him in crunch time is criminally stupid on Fred's part.

 

[clonetrooper264]

If you are at .381 FG% within 2 feet of the basket, there's a problem.

I actually looked this stat up out of curiosity. That 38.1% is his overall 2pt shooting, which is still bad. His shooting within 3 feet of the basket is 47.3%, which is also not so great.

 

[clonetrooper264]

I didn't mean like not play at all, although we would probably improve as a team if that happened. That's just not realistic though...the Bulls aren't going to sit a healthy player making 20 mil a season. I would like for him to play drastically less minutes. No more than 20 and I think Noah's minutes should go up some. Or if Jo is going to play the same minutes, he absolutely should be playing at the end of games. He's simply a better player than Niko and Taj. Not playing him in crunch time is criminally stupid on Fred's part.

It couldn't hurt to play Rose less, but 20 minutes per game isn't happening in any universe. Much like they won't pay him 20M to sit so he stops supposedly seeing double, they're not going to play him 20 minutes. May not suit your fancy, but that's just how it is.

I do think Jo could stand to get more minutes. Numbers wise the Taj/Jo pairing has been much worse than I thought. Shockingly, the Pau/Jo pairing was much better than I thought. In any case, he should definitely be playing over Niko at least.

 

[czman]

This is what happens why you try to change a team identity with a new coach but don't replace the players. It was a bad idea when it happened and it is still a bad idea.

 

[clonetrooper264]

It's only step one of the rebuild y'all. Soon we'll be the Warriors! JUST WAIT!

 

[Enasic]

This is what happens why you try to change a team identity with a new coach but don't replace the players. It was a bad idea when it happened and it is still a bad idea.

The defense has still been good this season. Better than last year for what it's worth. Thibs had to go and Fred doesn't have the pieces that he really needs to run his system. This team wasn't going to be fixed in one off-season. We need a talent influx. With that said, I haven't been too impressed with Fred so far. Mainly, not playing Bobby and his lineups to close out games. The offense has also looked grossly out of sync but when you don't have an above average PG on the roster that's going to happen.

It couldn't hurt to play Rose less, but 20 minutes per game isn't happening in any universe. Much like they won't pay him 20M to sit so he stops supposedly seeing double, they're not going to play him 20 minutes. May not suit your fancy, but that's just how it is.

I do think Jo could stand to get more minutes. Numbers wise the Taj/Jo pairing has been much worse than I thought. Shockingly, the Pau/Jo pairing was much better than I thought. In any case, he should definitely be playing over Niko at least.

You're right about Rose playing less minutes. It is what it is. I'm also surprised of the Pau/Noah pairing but mainly because I didn't expect Jo to be this healthy. That should be the combo closing out games.

 

[The Hawk]

This is what happens why you try to change a team identity with a new coach but don't replace the players. It was a bad idea when it happened and it is still a bad idea.

Right on the money. I've been bitching about this very same thing since the decision went down. Hoiberg has supposedly a notion of what kind of team he needs skill wise to be a successful one. He wanted an up tempo offense we were told along with players who could shoot a jump shot accurately. Well, Garfield and friend gave him none of that. Where is the shooting guard and small forward? Where is a decent point guard off of the bench? THey certainly had a chance to start remaking the team to fit Hoiberg. Instead they draft Portis which was not a need and they made no deals for skill guys to fit.

Instead they ran Thibs out of town and dissed him on the way out. Thibs will land a job at a quality franchise. He's taking a nice vacation right now on the Bulls dime and laughing all the way to the bank. Don't be surprise that it will be the Lakers who will have tons of money next year available with Kobe retiring. Hell, I would not be surprised if he doesn't make Kobe a coach also?

 

[The Hawk]

I don't know but doesn't it seems that Rose should have become a better jump shooter with all of the time he spent on the injured list? Anyone know if he even tried to improve his game? Even the great players try their damnedest to evolve as players. Look at Jordan. When he came into the league he was a terrific scorer but not a shooter. He worked his can off improving his post up ability and ball handling. What has Rose done during his down time?

 

[Axl Rose]

This is what happens why you try to change a team identity with a new coach but don't replace the players. It was a bad idea when it happened and it is still a bad idea.

you act like things were fine and dandy under Tom. they got embarrassed and quit versus a Cavs team that had JR SMITH as the 2nd best player

the identity was lost when Noah was unable to perform at a high level and Rose became a marshmallow. they only compounded it by bringing in Gasol who has always been charmin soft

i will agree that this team doesn't fit Hoiberg's system but thats not the reason they are trash. its that the team is full of lazy soft washed up players and is unbalanced as hell...Phil Jackson couldn't do anything with this roster

offense was better last year because Rose while highly inconsistent, still gave us something time to time. this year he is literally one of the worst players in the league (he can't even hit a layup) and thats bringing us down allot

 

[Benchmob757]

I don't know but doesn't it seems that Rose should have become a better jump shooter with all of the time he spent on the injured list? Anyone know if he even tried to improve his game? Even the great players try their damnedest to evolve as players. Look at Jordan. When he came into the league he was a terrific scorer but not a shooter. He worked his can off improving his post up ability and ball handling. What has Rose done during his down time?

I was just wondering this. I could have sworn there was talk about him getting a chance to work on his jumper but it's like his jumper got worse? It's like everything is worse.

Giving up in game 6 last year really left a bad taste in my mouth too. I don't remember ever being that frustrated with Rose or the Bulls.


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[The Hawk]

I was just wondering this. I could have sworn there was talk about him getting a chance to work on his jumper but it's like his jumper got worse? It's like everything is worse.

Giving up in game 6 last year really left a bad taste in my mouth too. I don't remember ever being that frustrated with Rose or the Bulls.


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Me too. These players still look confused on offense as in standing around while someone controls the ball. A bunch of square pegs in round holes. The fact that they decided to bring Hinrich, Snell, and Dunleavy back has sealed their fate this year. They should not have even been on this team. They should have upgraded their smalls and traded a couple of their bigs. STupid management doing stupid things. I have nothing bad to say about Portis. But WHY?

 

[The Hawk]

you act like things were fine and dandy under Tom. they got embarrassed and quit versus a Cavs team that had JR SMITH as the 2nd best player

the identity was lost when Noah was unable to perform at a high level and Rose became a marshmallow. they only compounded it by bringing in Gasol who has always been charmin soft

i will agree that this team doesn't fit Hoiberg's system but thats not the reason they are trash. its that the team is full of lazy soft washed up players and is unbalanced as hell...Phil Jackson couldn't do anything with this roster

offense was better last year because Rose while highly inconsistent, still gave us something time to time. this year he is literally one of the worst players in the league (he can't even hit a layup) and thats bringing us down allot

Who exactly are these "lazy, soft, and washed up players"? I agree with you totally about the team being unbalanced. Its been unbalanced for years. Garfield and Fred, never gave Thibs the players that he wanted either. Two loser management pukes did it to both of them. This team will never win a title with Garfield and Pax along with the real estate guru, Reinny. It was luck that he hired Jackson on the cheap and got extremely lucky to get Pippen and Jordan. Crumbs Krause knew talent also to fill in the pieces to fit Jackson's triangle offense. What has Garfield and dunce done?

 

[Enasic]

Lol Krause assembled the baby bulls...

Yeah, what a genius that guy was for inheriting Michael Jordan. Once the GOAT player and coach left, the team he assembled was up there with the present 6ers.

We're in the middle of a rebuild and management isn't saying it. I think once December 14th rolls around and everyone is fair game to be traded, we'll see a move. Just don't expect too much with the pieces we have. I'm guessing they'll move a big for a wing and open up playing time for Portis but this team won't have a chance to add a real game changer until Rose's contract is up and we have the money to sign someone. That doesn't mean we'll be lucky enough to sign a franchise guy, but we don't have a way of acquiring one until then...and that's really what this team needs since their former franchise player deteriorated after injuries.

 

[czman]

you act like things were fine and dandy under Tom. they got embarrassed and quit versus a Cavs team that had JR SMITH as the 2nd best player

the identity was lost when Noah was unable to perform at a high level and Rose became a marshmallow. they only compounded it by bringing in Gasol who has always been charmin soft

i will agree that this team doesn't fit Hoiberg's system but thats not the reason they are trash. its that the team is full of lazy soft washed up players and is unbalanced as hell...Phil Jackson couldn't do anything with this roster

offense was better last year because Rose while highly inconsistent, still gave us something time to time. this year he is literally one of the worst players in the league (he can't even hit a layup) and thats bringing us down allot

Things where not fine under Thibs and I was one of the most outspoken against his flaws. Thibs was flawed. The team fit him though. What if the Bulls had kept Thibs and traded Gibson and Mcdermott for Batun. They would have been the best team Thibs would have had a chance to coach and a very good hit for him. In stead they fire him and do not blow it up.

Some people thought they could just bring in a offensive minded coach and everything would work out. That was delusional. the Bulls are stilla good team. They are still going to make the payoffs. They are further from a countertenor. Thibs should have been given one more year with a real SF/SG combination. That way the Bulls could have made the change with more cap room and made it easier transition.

Or

They should have let him go after they Beat the Nets a few years ago when his value was at its peak and they could have gotten a pick for him plus dealt the players when they had more value.

They sold at the wrong time.

 

[Enasic]

Thibs time was up. He should not have been given another chance. The team grew tired of him which was evident by them quitting in game 6 against the Cavs. It was really evident before then, but his approach to coaching doesn't last in the long run. Eventually he just wears on players. Too stubborn, refused to adjust, and didn't understand the concept of pacing yourself during the regular season. I think the only guy who was really in Thibs corner was Jimmy. I remember after the playoffs ended it was rumored that 4 out of the 5 starters didn't vouche for him. You don't bring a guy back when that happens. Not unless you're winning championships.

 

[czman]

Thibs time was up. He should not have been given another chance. The team grew tired of him which was evident by them quitting in game 6 against the Cavs. It was really evident before then, but his approach to coaching doesn't last in the long run. Eventually he just wears on players. Too stubborn, refused to adjust, and didn't understand the concept of pacing yourself during the regular season. I think the only guy who was really in Thibs corner was Jimmy. I remember after the playoffs ended it was rumored that 4 out of the 5 starters didn't vouche for him. You don't bring a guy back when that happens. Not unless you're winning championships.

Thibs he should have been moved before the team was tired of him. Like I said the failure is they waited for all of the value to go to make the move. Either be smart enough to make the move ahead of time or ride it out till the end. Next season was the end, when you look at this team.