The Chicago Bulls are ranked 27th in offense. Here's why, and how Hoiberg can fix it

[clonetrooper264]

Maybe "they" didn't but I certainly do not put any stock in what "they" think. I am talking about what was being said on this board as in how much Thibs was the blame for why they couldn't seal the deal and win a championship. The truth is that it was Thibs who got a lot more out of his players than any coach in the NBA not named Popovich. His teams were not as talented as 7 or 8 others yet he took them farther record wise than most others. In fact, in the last four of his years they didn't have ANY superstar and yet they did have an outstanding win/loss record.

Yeah some on the Bulls team probably did get "tired" of Thibs balls out coaching style, but whose problem was that really? Maybe, if Garfield Goose and friend had given him some talent to work with, things could have been better. We will never know about that. All I do know is that Gar/Pax are bad news as decision makers in this NBA.

Thibs had talent to work with last year and before that as well. You can complain about the lack of talent in the couple years following Rose's ACL injury, but who was really expecting anything out of those seasons? And for all the regular season success, how well did that translate come playoff time?

 

[Enasic]

What "very deep team"? You have the gaul to talk about that team as being a deep one? They had a terrible backcourt including a bunch of D-leaguers on the bench. They limped into the play-offs with a very thin and injury ridden team. "Very deep team"..........Hilarious!

The hope was Derrick was going to come back healthy. Also, what I was responding to was the timing of Thibs firing. They gave him one last chance with a healthy/semi healthy Rose and while the team didn't have elite talent, yes, they were pretty deep. What D-leaguers are you talking about? Injury riddled, yes.

Snipe. Congratulations. Can't make an argument worth a crap so you snipe. ANd you talk about being clueless. Look in the mirror little one

You have a habit of ignoring posts after I give a lengthy response. For example, the one in the jimmy butler heal injury thread. I'd love to hear some Hawk responses there. Actually, usually when I respond and make whatever point I'm trying to make, you fail to refute it but instead regurgitate ramblings of garfield goose, crumbs, management, and whatever other propaganda you like to spew while ignoring specific points and questions others make and propose to you.

 

[The Hawk]

Thibs had talent to work with last year and before that as well. You can complain about the lack of talent in the couple years following Rose's ACL injury, but who was really expecting anything out of those seasons? And for all the regular season success, how well did that translate come playoff time?

He did not have a bench whatsoever as far as the "talent" question. Truth is that it was Thibs that got more out of what was left talent wise than any reasonable person could have expected. You can blow off his accomplishments all that you want to but wins are wins and Thibs won a helluva lot more than he lost

 

[clonetrooper264]

He did not have a bench whatsoever as far as the "talent" question. Truth is that it was Thibs that got more out of what was left talent wise than any reasonable person could have expected. You can blow off his accomplishments all that you want to but wins are wins and Thibs won a helluva lot more than he lost

Don't be dumb. From 2010-2012 we had one of the best bench groups in the entire league. They were called the bench mob for a reason. Thibs also got great production out of Brooks, Snell at times, and Mirotic last year. Taj has been a mainstay for years. The we weren't relying on 5 players the entire game. We've had a bench. Maybe not the greatest all the time, but they were more than enough to say we had a bench vs not.

 

[Scoot26]

Don't be dumb. From 2010-2012 we had one of the best bench groups in the entire league. They were called the bench mob for a reason. Thibs also got great production out of Brooks, Snell at times, and Mirotic last year. Taj has been a mainstay for years. The we weren't relying on 5 players the entire game. We've had a bench. Maybe not the greatest all the time, but they were more than enough to say we had a bench vs not.

lol, agreed the Bulls bench was more than enough. Typical NBA philosophy in the playoffs has been to only have an 8 man rotation anyways (though thats changing).

In the end, Thibs wore out his welcome by not having results. Players quit in Game 6 for whatever reasons, you make a change. As time goes on, perhaps its more so the players that needed to be shipped out along with Thibs, and there's still time to do that.

Lets be honest here though...

Gasol, as good as hisn umbers were last year.. last year was the first year you saw this lackadaisical effort being given it seems like. Is it that Gasol was the bad plugin, bad for team chemistry/game flow and all those things? This year you completely see it with Rose, I didn't see it as much last season with Rose.

 

[Enasic]

I saw it last year with Rose but his rare "good games" were better than this years version of him. Last year he was in auto pilot and just chucked up 3s until he had a matchup with a premiere PG. Then he actually gave a shit and it showed. It showed in his eyes, his demeanor, and his play. He's the same effort player this year only he's taking less 3s and isn't good enough to actually have good games.

If you watch some of the highlights of him back in the day, what really stands out to me, is not the moves he's making on the court, or a drastically better form and release on his shot....it's his demeanor. It's the look in his eyes. It's the way he carries himself. He's engaged in the games. This year, it's astonishing how mentally absent and non engaged he is.

 

[Scoot26]

I saw it last year with Rose but his rare "good games" were better than this years version of him. Last year he was in auto pilot and just chucked up 3s until he had a matchup with a premiere PG. Then he actually gave a shit and it showed. It showed in his eyes, his demeanor, and his play. He's the same effort player this year only he's taking less 3s and isn't good enough to actually have good games.

If you watch some of the highlights of him back in the day, what really stands out to me, is not the moves he's making on the court, or a drastically better form and release on his shot....it's his demeanor. It's the look in his eyes. It's the way he carries himself. He's engaged in the games. This year, it's astonishing how mentally absent and non engaged he is.

Which is it the injuries to him that he's just checked out mentally? He's just going to collect his check and retire on his millions because he's tired of getting hurt?

Rose pre-ACL definitely had that look of this kid wants to win, be a winner, will do anything to win. After that.. it was lost on him it seems like.

 

[Enasic]

Which is it the injuries to him that he's just checked out mentally? He's just going to collect his check and retire on his millions because he's tired of getting hurt?

Rose pre-ACL definitely had that look of this kid wants to win, be a winner, will do anything to win. After that.. it was lost on him it seems like.

I'm sure the injuries played a huge factor. If you watch him after he came back from the ACL, he still had that look of wanting to dominate and physically, he looked damned near the same. The results weren't great, but he was trending in the right direction I thought. After the second injury and more rehab, I think he just lost it mentally. I think he realized, he couldn't play the same style of basketball he grew up playing, and it wasn't fun for him anymore. He had to become more of a thinker as opposed to a reactor and that's just not him. I'm not giving him a pas for his attitude, but I think that's what led up to this. As his athleticism deteriorated and caused him to change his style of play, I think he just lost his passion for the game.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Heck maybe Rose is just uber depressed. To go from an arguable top 3 player in the league to out for a whole year. Taking criticism for not playing for that entire year, but coming back and trying to show everyone wrong only to have another season ending injury. Then to take even more criticism for that first injury, come back, and get yet another injury. All this from someone who was extremely sheltered through all of this and had never really gone through much adversity at all. Maybe he decided other things in life were more important than basketball. So perhaps he is of the utmost mental weakness, at least basketball wise.

Or maybe he really is just that scared of getting injured again.

Either way, he stinks and it is what it is.

 

[Scoot26]

Heck maybe Rose is just uber depressed. To go from an arguable top 3 player in the league to out for a whole year. Taking criticism for not playing for that entire year, but coming back and trying to show everyone wrong only to have another season ending injury. Then to take even more criticism for that first injury, come back, and get yet another injury. All this from someone who was extremely sheltered through all of this and had never really gone through much adversity at all. Maybe he decided other things in life were more important than basketball. So perhaps he is of the utmost mental weakness, at least basketball wise.

Or maybe he really is just that scared of getting injured again.

Either way, he stinks and it is what it is.

He has mental weakness all around, from what he says to the media, to what is displayed on the court. It can easily be everything you said. But in the end, we only care about the results. The only thing that can fix Rose now, is Rose. If he needs to see help, he should seek it out, and it should be highly recommended to him by the FO.

 

[clonetrooper264]

He has mental weakness all around, from what he says to the media, to what is displayed on the court. It can easily be everything you said. But in the end, we only care about the results. The only thing that can fix Rose now, is Rose. If he needs to see help, he should seek it out, and it should be highly recommended to him by the FO.

Such is the cruel nature of fandom. You don't get us what we want? GTFO you useless scrub. But again, it is what it is.

I do agree that the only thing that'll fix Rose is Rose. There's always a chance that he's seeing 5 rims all the time and that's why his shooting is so bad and for all we know come mid January or something he'll suddenly look much better. And then there's the chance that he'll just suck the rest of the year and everyone will rage all over every form of media until he's run out of town.

 

[Scoot26]

Such is the cruel nature of fandom. You don't get us what we want? GTFO you useless scrub. But again, it is what it is.

I do agree that the only thing that'll fix Rose is Rose. There's always a chance that he's seeing 5 rims all the time and that's why his shooting is so bad and for all we know come mid January or something he'll suddenly look much better. And then there's the chance that he'll just suck the rest of the year and everyone will rage all over every form of media until he's run out of town.

This is Chicago. We're great at running people out of town.

 

[clonetrooper264]

This is Chicago. We're great at running people out of town.

Sportsmanship yo

 

[Enasic]

I always thought the vision thing was overblown. His FIRST pre-season game back, he looked great. Was shooting and finishing great. He makes mid range shots off the back board, from near the elbow area of the court. Actually, further than that...that doesn't seem like a guy who can't see as that's a difficult shot if you have vision problems. Yet he can't finish in the paint or near the rim? In the end, no one really knows, but I doubt his play is because of vision issues.

And even if the FO told him to get help, he's a yes man to his brother. His brother would not go along with that and wouldn't tell him a problem. His attitude most likely is "It's not you Derrick, it's them. You're the greatest. You'll be MVP again. Just find your rhythm."

 

[Scoot26]

I always thought the vision thing was overblown. His FIRST pre-season game back, he looked great. Was shooting and finishing great. He makes mid range shots off the back board, from near the elbow area of the court. Actually, further than that...that doesn't seem like a guy who can't see as that's a difficult shot if you have vision problems. Yet he can't finish in the paint or near the rim? In the end, no one really knows, but I doubt his play is because of vision issues.

And even if the FO told him to get help, he's a yes man to his brother. His brother would not go along with that and wouldn't tell him a problem. His attitude most likely is "It's not you Derrick, it's them. You're the greatest. You'll be MVP again. Just find your rhythm."

Remember the 2013 preseason where he looked utterly amazing, then started the 2013-14 season playing like utter shit?

 

[clonetrooper264]

The gaping flaw in the vision story is his insanely high percentage from 10-16 feet. That elbow bank shot is still money. Unless that is literally one of those shots he can make with his eyes closed.

 

[Enasic]

Remember the 2013 preseason where he looked utterly amazing, then started the 2013-14 season playing like utter shit?

Yep. But his athleticism was still there. He was legitimately getting his timing and feel for the game back. He was getting his legs under him but if you watch highlights, he was finishing in traffic over guys and still had touch around the basket like he always did and he was attacking. Like I said, I thought he was trending in the right direction, then the injury in Portland happened and that was a wrap.

 

[The Hawk]

The hope was Derrick was going to come back healthy. Also, what I was responding to was the timing of Thibs firing. They gave him one last chance with a healthy/semi healthy Rose and while the team didn't have elite talent, yes, they were pretty deep. What D-leaguers are you talking about? Injury riddled, yes.




You have a habit of ignoring posts after I give a lengthy response. For example, the one in the jimmy butler heal injury thread. I'd love to hear some Hawk responses there. Actually, usually when I respond and make whatever point I'm trying to make, you fail to refute it but instead regurgitate ramblings of garfield goose, crumbs, management, and whatever other propaganda you like to spew while ignoring specific points and questions others make and propose to you.

I didn't respond to the Butler thread because it didn't interest me. Interesting that Scoot thanked you for your stupid insults. He's great about that, isn't he? I refute you all of the time when you are silly which happens most of the time. For example, you were really REALLY silly to state that the Bulls team last year was a DEEP ONE. That is so inane that it was really hilarious. Please, please, go back to those play-offs and define which players were quality ones who played in that series. Who were healthy? Deep team? Hilarious.

BTW. what fucking "propaganda" are you talking about? And how is what I have said any different to what you spew? Guess what......you really should find out what propaganda means. Obviously you do not.

 

[The Hawk]

Don't be dumb. From 2010-2012 we had one of the best bench groups in the entire league. They were called the bench mob for a reason. Thibs also got great production out of Brooks, Snell at times, and Mirotic last year. Taj has been a mainstay for years. The we weren't relying on 5 players the entire game. We've had a bench. Maybe not the greatest all the time, but they were more than enough to say we had a bench vs not.

Read the context in what I talked about. I commented about how great the bench mob was in the early years. But..........they allowed that bench mob to deteriorate into a bench joke and that was on Gar/Pax. And.....I am not dumb. Dumb people do not want to acknowledge how bad the Bulls have been replacing skilled players that they've lost or getting a skilled starter to replace Deng.

 

[Benchmob757]

How bad can Derrick's double vision still be? It has been quite a while now.


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