The Cubs Hot Stove Action Thread

[Boobaby1]

you mean its a good thing they were able to deal him and not extend him as some on here wanted too..

Or you can look at it this way. Garza is far superior to anything we have in the starting rotation, if that tells you where the state of the Cubs are. opcorn:

 

[chibears55]

Or you can look at it this way. Garza is far superior to anything we have in the starting rotation, if that tells you where the state of the Cubs are. opcorn:

far superior LMAO.. going off of what ? his past.. here how superior he was going to a much better team (rangers ) then the cubs after the trade and had the chance to up his value.

13 GS 4.38 ERA 1.31 WHIP 3.36 K/BB

3 cubs starters on a horrible cubs team in the 2nd half..

travis wood 13 GS 3.61 ERA 1.31 WHIP 2.07 K/BB

jeff samardzija 16 GS 3.91 ERA 1.19 WHIP 3.15 K/BB

chris rusin 7 GS 3.03 ERA 1.06 WHIP 1.83 K/BB


show me where was more superior... matt Garza is overrated and people need to get off his he has great stuff coat tail because it aint flying anymore after waiting to see it for 8 years, even more so now with the injury..

 

[brett05]

far superior LMAO.. going off of what ? his past.. here how superior he was going to a much better team (rangers ) then the cubs after the trade and had the chance to up his value.

13 GS 4.38 ERA 1.31 WHIP 3.36 K/BB

3 cubs starters on a horrible cubs team in the 2nd half..

travis wood 13 GS 3.61 ERA 1.31 WHIP 2.07 K/BB

jeff samardzija 16 GS 3.91 ERA 1.19 WHIP 3.15 K/BB

chris rusin 7 GS 3.03 ERA 1.06 WHIP 1.83 K/BB


show me where was more superior... matt Garza is overrated and people need to get off his he has great stuff coat tail because it aint flying anymore after waiting to see it for 8 years, even more so now with the injury..

No acct for the AL lineups????

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[chibears55]

No acct for the AL lineups????

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martin perez 14 GS 3.87 ERA 1.33 WHIP 2.37 K/BB

alexi oquendo 8 GS 3.31 ERA 1.22 ERA 1.53 K / BB

you know who these 2 starters are ? they were in the rangers rotation the 2nd half last year and was way better then Garza ..

Garza all that but couldn't do better then a 30 YO reliever turned starter, and a 22 YO with 6 career starts under his belt pitching on the same team in the same AL..

 

[Jntg4]

No acct for the AL lineups????

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Sure, a 94 ERA+ (adjusted to league and ballpark right there FYI)

Unfortunately, can't seem to find ERA+ splits for halves of seasons on Baseball-Reference or anything, unless obviously, the player was traded during that time to create such a distinction, so I can't compare the others much.

 

[beckdawg]

Even if Garza was the cubs "best" pitcher that hardly makes him an ace. If he were a legit #1 with no injury issues then I would have been more upset about them trading him. For example, let's say he was Zack Grienke who's got these career marks 300-259 3.65 ERA 86 ERA-. If Garza had those sort of numbers and no obvious injury concerns then fine do what you gotta do to sign him. I think most would consider Grienke more of a back half of the "#1's" out there rather than a top 15 pitcher.

The cubs got a lot of ifs. If Edwards is able to stay a starter and if he continues this progression it's easily a fair return alone. If Olt's issues with vision are fixed the deal starts to become more lopsided. If Ramirez, who I am really high on, gets his control issues resolved he could potentially be a middle of the rotation starter. Even Grimm is a mildly interesting "if." He was a former top 10 prospect with a decently deep Texas system. So, he's not entirely some scrub throw in. The cubs had essentially bought low on Grimm and Olt after Texas soured on them. The cubs really didn't get a single sure fire player. If 2-3 of these guys reach their potential this trade could look like a huge steal. If none of them do then you gave up half a season of Garza in a year you were already terrible. They took a gamble on 4 guys but the down side here isn't like they lost 2 years of Shark.

I think the reason they took the hard stance on trading Shark is because they already have some more risky guys from the Garza deal. They are looking for more of a sure thing if they trade Shark.

 

[patg006]

Even if Garza was the cubs "best" pitcher that hardly makes him an ace. If he were a legit #1 with no injury issues then I would have been more upset about them trading him. For example, let's say he was Zack Grienke who's got these career marks 300-259 3.65 ERA 86 ERA-. If Garza had those sort of numbers and no obvious injury concerns then fine do what you gotta do to sign him. I think most would consider Grienke more of a back half of the "#1's" out there rather than a top 15 pitcher.

The cubs got a lot of ifs. If Edwards is able to stay a starter and if he continues this progression it's easily a fair return alone. If Olt's issues with vision are fixed the deal starts to become more lopsided. If Ramirez, who I am really high on, gets his control issues resolved he could potentially be a middle of the rotation starter. Even Grimm is a mildly interesting "if." He was a former top 10 prospect with a decently deep Texas system. So, he's not entirely some scrub throw in. The cubs had essentially bought low on Grimm and Olt after Texas soured on them. The cubs really didn't get a single sure fire player. If 2-3 of these guys reach their potential this trade could look like a huge steal. If none of them do then you gave up half a season of Garza in a year you were already terrible. They took a gamble on 4 guys but the down side here isn't like they lost 2 years of Shark.

I think the reason they took the hard stance on trading Shark is because they already have some more risky guys from the Garza deal. They are looking for more of a sure thing if they trade Shark.

May not be an ace, but Matt Garza is worth more than what he got on Milwaukee.

I don't think Edwards will be able to stay a starter. I think this year's 1st round pick #4 will be the guy, and I think he should go the Chris Sale route. Sign ASAP, A+ for a few starts, jump him to AAA, get him his first reps come September then the following year bullpen then stretch to starter.

I don't believe we're getting Rondon or Hoffman, the consensus 1-2. I think Trea Turner is the best batter taken. Finally--Ty Beade, pending health should be 4. Get him moving.

If for any reason sans injury Rondon or Hoffman drop, they need to be the pick. Meaning if people thought they would pull a Mark Appel in 2012, demand the most money--the cubs should NOT shy away from that. Draft and pay it. The cubs can't afford to let a top of the rotation starter fall through their grasp again because Boy Blunder is afraid he wont sign.

I think Neil Ramirez can be a nice bullpen addition.

Olt is a bust, the best thing for him is to turn into a utility player (pick up 1st and RF) to extend his ML career a couple years showcasing his power before he gets offed to the Japan or Korean leagues like Mark Reynolds. I'll take that to the bank now. Any production is gravy.

I think Pierce Johnson is the best we got to look forward to at the moment. I see him much like a right-handed Mark Buherle. Probably will be the best pitcher, though he's not an ace much like Buherle was on the Sox. Maybe during rain delays he'll slip and slide until they threaten him not to. Like Buherle, as soon as he gets the ball back from the catcher, he sets and throws the next pitch. Couple clips I saw of him have him throwing 4-6 pitches per minute without the ball being put into play. Buherle-esque.

If Shark over-performs, they got a shot at a 2nd top of line rotation guy, I don't think its Archie Bradley. Eddie Butler may become available because Colorado has Jon Gray to look forward to and the off chance Colorado is in contention. I'm keeping my eye on him.

 

[brett05]

Sure, a 94 ERA+ (adjusted to league and ballpark right there FYI)

Unfortunately, can't seem to find ERA+ splits for halves of seasons on Baseball-Reference or anything, unless obviously, the player was traded during that time to create such a distinction, so I can't compare the others much.

I'm more of take the other guys and put them in the AL and the story gets told completely different. Garza has loads of success in the AL. AL east no less.

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[beckdawg]

May not be an ace, but Matt Garza is worth more than what he got on Milwaukee.

Agreed. But the debate was keeping Garza and locking him long term vs the trade. Garza's MIL deal wasn't what he wanted most likely and is only that low because it was the best offer out there.

 

[Boobaby1]

far superior LMAO.. going off of what ? his past.. here how superior he was going to a much better team (rangers ) then the cubs after the trade and had the chance to up his value.

13 GS 4.38 ERA 1.31 WHIP 3.36 K/BB

3 cubs starters on a horrible cubs team in the 2nd half..

travis wood 13 GS 3.61 ERA 1.31 WHIP 2.07 K/BB

jeff samardzija 16 GS 3.91 ERA 1.19 WHIP 3.15 K/BB

chris rusin 7 GS 3.03 ERA 1.06 WHIP 1.83 K/BB


show me where was more superior... matt Garza is overrated and people need to get off his he has great stuff coat tail because it aint flying anymore after waiting to see it for 8 years, even more so now with the injury..

Go a little farther back than the last half of the year, will you? The fact that Garza other than when with Texas and his rookie year has never been above 4.00 in ERA, and that includes both leagues. You can take the rest of the Cubs staff, put them in the AL and watch their numbers dwindle greatly.

Also, if situations were the same, and Garza had two years of control left like Shark, do you think he would have fetched what the Cubs need as far as prospects? I do, and sorry to say, but it is because what he did in his past. That's how you evaluate a pitcher. To think what they got in return for a half year rental ought to tell you a little bit.

Dempster sported really good numbers until he went to the AL. Garza did too until his last stint with the AL, but somehow, the rest of the Cubs staff would do okay in the AL?

And if you think Garza is overrated, then you are over-hyping the rest of this staff.

If Garza were on the Cubs today, he would be penciled in at the very least as the number 2 starter, and more than likely number one. There is no debate on that one.

If you think differently, keep talking.

 

[DewsSox79]

I'm more of take the other guys and put them in the AL and the story gets told completely different. Garza has loads of success in the AL. AL east no less.

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theres a ton of cub fans dogging him now...probably the same people that wanted 17 top specs for him last summer. funny when a player leaves everyone dogs em, but when the player is on the cubs they are amazing.


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[Jntg4]

theres a ton of cub fans dogging him now...probably the same people that wanted 17 top specs for him last summer. funny when a player leaves everyone dogs em, but when the player is on the cubs they are amazing.


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Koyie Hill

:fap:

 

[ChiSoxCity]

Garza is old news, so is the Cubs still sucking.

 

[SilenceS]

Garza is old news, so is the Cubs still sucking.

White Sox wont be to far off.

 

[brett05]

White Sox wont be to far off.

Possibly.

But with the four month rebuild I don't think many would be surprised to see 85+ wins either

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[waldo7239117]

Possibly.

But with the four month rebuild I don't think many would be surprised to see 85+ wins either

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I would be. I have them in fourth place. I expect the AL Central to be a lot better this year.

 

[brett05]

I would be. I have them in fourth place. I expect the AL Central to be a lot better this year.

85+ wins might still be fourth place, but no one should be surprised. They all played to career lows. Playing to jsut career norms makes them an 85+ win team, and with the rebuild of youth and payroll with Sale leading them, no one should be surprised.

 

[patg006]

White Sox wont be to far off.

Maybe, but at least they're trying to be competitive in rebuilding instead of outright sucking for top draft picks, and I don't think the division is all that. They're doing that crazy little 'both' thing smart teams do.

Detroit is still the class. Cleveland fell off. KC is in limbo where nobody knows if they boom for the division or return to the cellar. Minny got better on their pitching staff, still has zero hitting sans Mauer. Chisox need a few bounces their way, but its not entirely improbable they are in the fight for 2nd/the 4/5 seed.

Cue pissy cubs fans telling me I should go root for the white sox.....

 

[Capt. Serious]

White Sox wont be to far off.

at least Rick Hahn is acquiring actual young major league ready talent & have this guy named Chris Sale.

oh, but you have the great Jeff Samardzija! :fap:

 

[SilenceS]

at least Rick Hahn is acquiring actual young major league ready talent & have this guy named Chris Sale.

oh, but you have the great Jeff Samardzija! :fap:

And they will still suck. Whats your point?