The Cubs Hot Stove Action Thread

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DewsSox79

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the white sox lost 99 games last year.. did I miss some kind of major overhaul of this team this off season that going to add 25+ wins.. didnt realize this abreu kid was that good..

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actually he is supposed to be "that good". ZIPs has a projected .285/.365 first year in mlb so the hype is there, the scouts see it. if he does it remains to be seen. The fact that the entire roster last year underachieved adds wins. They overachieved the year before and went bell to bell with the tigers. Again imo they are a .500 team if they dont add a RHd starter and obtain a catcher. If they make those 2 moves it can be a 85 win team. When you trade c lee and let maggs walk and that season you win a ring, it tells me anything can happen. As long as it is not filler players there is always a chance. .500 is what the sox are. wont be shocked if they are under or over.


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beckdawg

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actually he is supposed to be "that good". ZIPs has a projected .285/.365 first year in mlb so the hype is there, the scouts see it. if he does it remains to be seen. The fact that the entire roster last year underachieved adds wins. They overachieved the year before and went bell to bell with the tigers. Again imo they are a .500 team if they dont add a RHd starter and obtain a catcher. If they make those 2 moves it can be a 85 win team. When you trade c lee and let maggs walk and that season you win a ring, it tells me anything can happen. As long as it is not filler players there is always a chance. .500 is what the sox are. wont be shocked if they are under or over.


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Not trying to poo on your parade but ZIPS typically does a poor job of projecting cubans because they lack data. He very well could be that good but I'm just saying you probably shouldn't compare a cuban player to a AA or AAA player in terms of ZIPS projections.

As for the rest, I'd just caution your optimism. Maybe the entire team did underachieve but they are also a year older. Rios was a 4.2 WAR player on the 2012 team and he's gone. Pierzynski was a 3.3 WAR player and he's gone. Konerko was a 2 WAR player and unlikely to hit .298/.371/.486. Jake Peavy is gone as a 4.4 WAR player. It's pretty obviously not the same team. Your .500 projection isn't that unheard of but they need several things to go right chiefly among them being Abreu. Eaton and the 3B they got(name slips my mind) could be good players or they could fizzle like other prospects.

All I'm saying is it is strange to me that some, not saying you specifically, will trash the cubs prospects who are higher rated and then readily buy into Eaton, the 3B and Garcia.
 

patg006

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Not trying to poo on your parade but ZIPS typically does a poor job of projecting cubans because they lack data. He very well could be that good but I'm just saying you probably shouldn't compare a cuban player to a AA or AAA player in terms of ZIPS projections.

As for the rest, I'd just caution your optimism. Maybe the entire team did underachieve but they are also a year older. Rios was a 4.2 WAR player on the 2012 team and he's gone. Pierzynski was a 3.3 WAR player and he's gone. Konerko was a 2 WAR player and unlikely to hit .298/.371/.486. Jake Peavy is gone as a 4.4 WAR player. It's pretty obviously not the same team. Your .500 projection isn't that unheard of but they need several things to go right chiefly among them being Abreu. Eaton and the 3B they got(name slips my mind) could be good players or they could fizzle like other prospects.

All I'm saying is it is strange to me that some, not saying you specifically, will trash the cubs prospects who are higher rated and then readily buy into Eaton, the 3B and Garcia.

I'm sorry, but bullshit.

I'm about as diehard a cub fan as they come.

But shitting on another team's prospects because you pick and choose an inconsistent stat (WAR) in certain years of players (Pauly and Peavy etc) and then turn around and say the cubs' lottery tickets are better makes your opinion null and fucking void.

I don't care for the White sox, never did. My fam loves them (dont know why). I've been to 3 white sox games. 1 when I was 11, shortly after Albert Belle went to the Orioles. Jim Parque (yes, that turd) threw a 2 hitter over 7 innings but the game went to extras after being 4-4 and in the top of the 10th, Albert Belle, former sox now oriole hit a game winning 3 run bomb. 2nd game against the Orioles when I sat 10 feet away from Pauly on the 1st base line, and the only thing I did that game was drunkenly yell at Corey Patterson because he got on base 4 times, but the sox won. Then a random lost bet against the Twins where I was bored to death until Dewayne Wise made a stupid error and Justin Morneau scored an unearned run from Mauer. Getting Drunk off of Miller products is impossible. It fills you up after 2.

The white sox prospects have the same odds as the cubs prospects, except they get less hype because the sox do their thing being the nobody team while the cubs and Theo get nothing but press. They're lottery tickets. Some boom, some bust, some you buy for a buck then you win a buck. Before you get all high and mighty on me about my point of view, know I think prospects are lottery tickets, but that doesn't mean I don't see the 2 lane street/opposing point of view.

I dont hate, because the WHite Sox, like the Angels, get shit for having 'bad farm systems.' I'd kill for the cubs farm to have a system just produced a Trout or Sale, then got considered a bad system, instead of 7 guys in the top 100.

The White Sox, though i don't care for them--have a far better chance in their mystery of a division (as I said, Detroit is the class followed by unknowns). All it needs is one streak at the right time.

The cubs however, refuse to improve. And Justin Ruggiano is all I have to look forward to.

The sad part? The sox will have the cheaper ticket on a better team.

But hey, 50 bucks buys me a ticket to a 100 loss team with a future!

You just made me defend the White Sox.

I hate you.
 

Boobaby1

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no need to go farther back... you said he was far more superior then what the cubs have now... I beg to differ, cause I believe what he showed in the 2nd half of last year after injury is going to be pretty close to what your going to get from him now..

we cant compare samardzija and wood with Garza in texas but we can with their stint with the cubs and Garza is far from being more superior then them..
he wasn't even "superior" over travis wood in almost the same starts, and wood suppose to be a 4 at best 3..
heck for what it worth, travis wood made the all star team..

Garza 60 GS 21 Wins 3.45 ERA 1.21 WHIP 3.09 K/BB

travis wood 58 GS 15 Wins 3.62 ERA 1.16 WHIP 2.18




he didn't quite fetch much in return from the cubs to the Rays and he had 3 yrs of control left prior to that trade.. they got quantity but not much in quality..
prob. because his past performances showed he wasn't anything more then a .500 starter with an ERA close to 4.00 and can give you about 6 IP..


I don't recall saying the rest of the cubs staff would be ok in the AL, I never even made that comparison.. you said he would be more superior then what the cubs have now in their rotation.. I disagreed.. I think post injury, he not going to be all that good, and what we saw of him the 2nd half of last year will be pretty close to what he will be like...


again, never mention anything about hyping up the rest of staff.. just disagreed that Garza is more superior then samardzija and wood..
if anyone hyping up any player, its you with Garza...


which means nothing to your argument of him being more superior then samardzija and wood..



im not not gonna tell you that samardzija and wood are better pitchers at this stage then Garza, but there is no way you can sit here and say that after the 2013 season and going into 2014, that Garza is a more superior starter the samardzija and wood.. If anything those 3 are about equal going into the season..

Well we are going to have to agree to disagree. Travis Wood to put it bluntly pitched out his ass. Most analysts predict he will resort back closer to his numbers prior to last year. I am not saying it, just echoing their sentiments.

Jeff Samardzija has been up and down the two years he has pitched. Very little consistency to speak of. Is he a bad pitcher? No. The one thing Garza has done is he has for the most part remained consistent. Both leagues in fact, but that doesn't mean that he is not the best pitcher on the Cubs. Actually, it really is pretty sad when you think about it.

And to say that Garza fetched hardly anything, I think you need to resort back to what the Cubs gave up. I don't know their rankings off the top of my head, but Sam Fuld was probably the weakest of them all and has seen action at the major league levels. Chirinos is the next weakest, then Hak-Ju Lee, and then Chris Archer.

Prior to Garza being traded to Texas, in his last 6 starts, he went 5-0 with a 1.24 ERA.

Here are his 2013 numbers in which he had bad outings against Cinci and Tampa. His ERA would really be low if not for those, but that's why they call it an average.

Team ERA

LAA 0-1 4.56
AZ 1-0 2.57
Chi Sox 1-1 3.51
Cinci 0-1 13.00
Houston 3-0 4.15
KC 1-0 1.13
Milw 1-0 3.55
Minn N/D 1.29
NYY 1-0 0.00
Oak 1-1 2.81
Pitt 0-1 3.00
STL 1-0 2.70
Tampa 0-1 12.46

I'd say their is some consistency there.
 

CSF77

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Wood got some hate due to him being a fly ball pitcher. He pitches to contact.

But the reason why he improved is because he started using his cutter inner and outter half. It has become his main pitch and it has induced fly ball outs vs heat left over the plate fly outs.

They should track it better on his Fly outs and see what pitch and location caused it. Maybe more of the pitch was meant to do that vs luck.
 

Icculus

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My favorite teams
  1. Chicago White Sox
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Army Black Knights
When have the sox ever been strong at drafting? They have typically been one of the cheapest teams in terms of draft budgets of any team in the majors. They typically haven't been big spenders in FA either. So, unless they manage to get a lot of steals in trades the sox will have difficulty adding impact players.

The Seventies (Harold Baines in 1977) and Eighties, specifically 1987-1990 when the White Sox' first round picks were Jack McDowell (Cy Young Award Winner), Robin Ventura (Multiple Gold Glover, 4th or 5th all time in Grand Slams), Frank Thomas (HOF, Two-Time AL MVP, Best Player/Hitter in team history), and Alex Fernandez. Of course, Larry Himes made those four consecutive picks, then was fired at the end of the 1990 season because his gifts as a talent evaluator could not distract Jerry and the rest of the Board of Directors from the fact that no one could get along with him. The Sox didn't start sucking at drafting until Ron Shueler was hired and developing farm system talent wasn't completely pushed to the back burner (they still struck gold in Panama and Venezuela with Magglio Ordonez and Carlos Lee) prior to Ken Williams' tenure (when they became the cheapest team in terms of draft budgeting combined with scouting and minor league development, facilities, and coaching).
 

DewsSox79

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Not trying to poo on your parade but ZIPS typically does a poor job of projecting cubans because they lack data. He very well could be that good but I'm just saying you probably shouldn't compare a cuban player to a AA or AAA player in terms of ZIPS projections.

As for the rest, I'd just caution your optimism. Maybe the entire team did underachieve but they are also a year older. Rios was a 4.2 WAR player on the 2012 team and he's gone. Pierzynski was a 3.3 WAR player and he's gone. Konerko was a 2 WAR player and unlikely to hit .298/.371/.486. Jake Peavy is gone as a 4.4 WAR player. It's pretty obviously not the same team. Your .500 projection isn't that unheard of but they need several things to go right chiefly among them being Abreu. Eaton and the 3B they got(name slips my mind) could be good players or they could fizzle like other prospects.

All I'm saying is it is strange to me that some, not saying you specifically, will trash the cubs prospects who are higher rated and then readily buy into Eaton, the 3B and Garcia.

garcia and eaton have been in the bigs allbeit sample size and i dont praise them to the max until i see more. abreu is considered the best spec to come out of cuba. if he is half of that he will be ok with me. i like our 1,2 in the rotation to build around.,.thats where i have faith. they get a solid number 3 pushing danks to the 4th thats a good enough rotation to keep the sox in games. lose alot of 2-1 games could happen though.


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dabynsky

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The Seventies (Harold Baines in 1977) and Eighties, specifically 1987-1990 when the White Sox' first round picks were Jack McDowell (Cy Young Award Winner), Robin Ventura (Multiple Gold Glover, 4th or 5th all time in Grand Slams), Frank Thomas (HOF, Two-Time AL MVP, Best Player/Hitter in team history), and Alex Fernandez. Of course, Larry Himes made those four consecutive picks, then was fired at the end of the 1990 season because his gifts as a talent evaluator could not distract Jerry and the rest of the Board of Directors from the fact that no one could get along with him. The Sox didn't start sucking at drafting until Ron Shueler was hired and developing farm system talent wasn't completely pushed to the back burner (they still struck gold in Panama and Venezuela with Magglio Ordonez and Carlos Lee) prior to Ken Williams' tenure (when they became the cheapest team in terms of draft budgeting combined with scouting and minor league development, facilities, and coaching).
Well that and it is only in the past few years that the Latin American market has been recovered for the Sox after the scandal with their top scouts in the region. With international bonuses somewhat capped has also helped the Sox tremendously make inroads in that market again.
 

beckdawg

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I'm sorry, but bullshit.

What exactly is bullshit? Eaton was #73 in BA's top 100 last year. Avisail Garcia was #74. Matt Davidson is #88. Even if you want to laud them for Sale he was #20. In mlb.com's rankings Baez is #7, Byrant is #9, Almora is #18, Edwards is #42, Soler is #49 and Alcantara is #89. This isn't Theo hyping these guys up. This is national prospect raters. Parks of baseball prospectus is comparing Baez's potential to Miggy Cabrera. He's not a cubs fan. He got his break reporting on Rangers prospects. Will all of these guys make it? Probably not but the point is the cubs have prospects that people think will be better and the Sox prospects are just as likely to fail as cubs prospects. And there's a reason national people rated them lower than cubs players. It's not some shit I just made up to support my agenda.

You just breezed over any of my comments and went into your typical rant that cubs suck. You've already given up on the cubs for the next 3 years but clearly you're not a hater and obviously you're still a fan.
 

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Whatever helps you sleep

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I dont go to sleep thinking about the Sox, but Im just calling it like it is. The Sox are not good and neither are the Cubs.
 

brett05

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I dont go to sleep thinking about the Sox, but Im just calling it like it is. The Sox are not good and neither are the Cubs.

No one says otherwise but you keep repeating it

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brett05

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What exactly is bullshit? Eaton was #73 in BA's top 100 last year. Avisail Garcia was #74. Matt Davidson is #88. Even if you want to laud them for Sale he was #20. In mlb.com's rankings Baez is #7, Byrant is #9, Almora is #18, Edwards is #42, Soler is #49 and Alcantara is #89. This isn't Theo hyping these guys up. This is national prospect raters. Parks of baseball prospectus is comparing Baez's potential to Miggy Cabrera. He's not a cubs fan. He got his break reporting on Rangers prospects. Will all of these guys make it? Probably not but the point is the cubs have prospects that people think will be better and the Sox prospects are just as likely to fail as cubs prospects. And there's a reason national people rated them lower than cubs players. It's not some shit I just made up to support my agenda.

You just breezed over any of my comments and went into your typical rant that cubs suck. You've already given up on the cubs for the next 3 years but clearly you're not a hater and obviously you're still a fan.

You cant compare rankings year after year

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SilenceS

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No one says otherwise but you keep repeating it

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Because yall come on here and repeat the same stuff on how the Cubs suck. lol
 

SilenceS

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Keith Law rates the Cubs farm as the 4th best and Jason Parks rates them as the second best. Baez may be number 1 prospect in the land by midseason. Lets hope he comes to the MLB team to get some excitement.
 

JosMin

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Keith Law rates the Cubs farm as the 4th best and Jason Parks rates them as the second best. Baez may be number 1 prospect in the land by midseason. Lets hope he comes to the MLB team to get some excitement.

He doesn't have the all-around game that Buxton or Tavares have. I think he could potentially move up a few more pegs, especially if the picture on his position becomes a bit clearer, but my personal opinon on Buxton, Tavares and even Miguel Sano are a bit higher. Still, I'm super pumped about Baez.
 

SilenceS

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He doesn't have the all-around game that Buxton or Tavares have. I think he could potentially move up a few more pegs, especially if the picture on his position becomes a bit clearer, but my personal opinon on Buxton, Tavares and even Miguel Sano are a bit higher. Still, I'm super pumped about Baez.

From what I am gathering, a lot think that Baez has the highest potential out of anyone in the minors. He is also moving out of the boom or bust prospect level.
 
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