The Javier Baez Discussion Thread

chibears55

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I actually thought .245 was realistic this Fall. I was wrong.
It still summer so there still a chance. [emoji12]

Major League pitchers arent dumb.. they see big swings and they pitch away with breaking stuff or go high, and until he learns to adjust by laying off or go the other way he going to continue to struggle...

I don't expect to see much adjustment made now with 3 weeks left but I hope he goes to the academy over the winter and works on it and shows improvement next year.
 

Mr. Cub

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It still summer so there still a chance. [emoji12]

Major League pitchers arent dumb.. they see big swings and they pitch away with breaking stuff or go high, and until he learns to adjust by laying off or go the other way he going to continue to struggle...

I don't expect to see much adjustment made now with 3 weeks left but I hope he goes to the academy over the winter and works on it and shows improvement next year.

He needs to do something. Otherwise he will end up with the all tine K record.... THIS YEAR!
 

Ari Bear

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Agree.. even soler calming down some...
Yeah but Soler isnt K-ing nearly everytime he's up at the plate. I like Baez, still have some hope for him but I have to say he may be a bit over hyped. Even in the minors he struck out often. Still lets hope he picks it up.
 

CSF77

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Just goes to show the jump from AAA to the bigs is no small matter.

Regardless until he starts to get pitch recognition he is going to have many more 0-4 games. The SO's I expected but his BB's show that he is not recognizing what pitch is coming.

Old rule was following the elbow at release. Tucked in was breaking pitch out fastball or change. Then it is a guess on speed and location.

I would watch the elbow in expect slider down. Out fastball up.

After he figures that part then comes the change to figure out.

But an At bat is a battle between a pitcher and a hitter. Baez is making it easy right now.
 

Icculus

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You either need to learn about baseball or stick to hockey assuming you know that sport

It's Joe. Learning and knowledge are very hard things for his mind to handle.
 

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The pitchers have adapted, now he has to adapt but it won't be easy with that big swing. The combination of high heat and off speed stuff has slowed a lot of kid's careers. Not sure what he can do with that swing but he needs to at least get better at pitch recognition and work on shrinking his strike zone instead of widening it. He's not the only one with problems. Alcantara needs to quit trying to be a home run hitter and use his speed more to get on base. It's a rare thing that kids walk right in and be a star players. One good thing is that it doesn't appear to be affecting their defense. That's why they're up here now, to see what they need to work on.....just wish Bryant was doing the same.
 

CSF77

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He needs to be picky. He is not going to do much with 95 head level or sliders in the dirt.
 

ZAN

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I see that many of us haven't looked at Javy's career trends at each level. Yes, I know that A, AA, AAA are not MLB...but Javy STRUGGLED at each level for the first 200+ ABs, then wrecked hell after he had it figured out. This is nothing more than his maturation process. He'll need to work on his bat wrap a bit in 2-strike counts. Swing is a bit long...he will still generate power with a short swing due to his bat speed. He will also increase his contact rate...and his BABIP is ridiculous when he DOES put it in play.

Writing off the kid after 140 ABs is a bad idea.
 

Parade_Rain

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The tip and rip is part of how he gets that bat speed.
 

brett05

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I see that many of us haven't looked at Javy's career trends at each level. Yes, I know that A, AA, AAA are not MLB...but Javy STRUGGLED at each level for the first 200+ ABs, then wrecked hell after he had it figured out. This is nothing more than his maturation process. He'll need to work on his bat wrap a bit in 2-strike counts. Swing is a bit long...he will still generate power with a short swing due to his bat speed. He will also increase his contact rate...and his BABIP is ridiculous when he DOES put it in play.

Writing off the kid after 140 ABs is a bad idea.

Wait the CCS board has been saying his first 100 at bats...now it's his first 200 at bats? Will 250 at bats or 300 at bats be far behind?
 

SilenceS

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Wait the CCS board has been saying his first 100 at bats...now it's his first 200 at bats? Will 250 at bats or 300 at bats be far behind?

Who said that? I have been pretty adamant that you need close to a 1000 bats before scouts declare much. Dominating 300 at bats or sucking during 300 bats means very little. You have to let the averages play out. It's why some posters on here don't understand sample sizez


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ZAN

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Wait the CCS board has been saying his first 100 at bats...now it's his first 200 at bats? Will 250 at bats or 300 at bats be far behind?

What does the rest of the CCS board have to do with what I am saying? The stats show that he starts slow at every level, and then "figures it out"...unfortunately, we won't see that until next season...because even if he "figures it out" the season will be over in about 20 games.
 

JZsportsfan

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Wait the CCS board has been saying his first 100 at bats...now it's his first 200 at bats? Will 250 at bats or 300 at bats be far behind?

He's still only 21 though. I don't think he will really be able to adjust until he gets time off the the ML which will come in the offseason. Look at Rizzo's rookie season. Very similar struggles. He probably should have been demoted for a couple weeks there to finish the AAA season, and see how he responded
 

beckdawg

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The stats show that he starts slow at every level, and then "figures it out"

I've said enough about Baez that I feel people know my opinion. But, what I will say is this is a fallacy not because what you're saying is wrong but rather because the implication is that "figuring it out" at A+/AAA means he will figure it out at the major league level. There's just no guarantee that will happen. Additionally, I've said this before but I think it bears repeating. Baez is undoubtedly one of the more physically gifted prospects in recent memory. However, raw talent only gets you so far. At the major league level most players are quite gifted. So, while in the minors you can feast on less talented players that's not always the case in the majors. The analogy I've used before is a pitcher with a dominating fastball. In the minors that works great because many hitters can't keep up with him. But if that's all you got when you get to the majors often times players like that will fail because at the major league level most players can hit a great fastball.

What we've seen thus far from Baez in my opinion is a player who has next to no polish and is relying mostly on his physical talent(bat speed/power). I forget whether it was the moneyball movie or book(maybe both) that talked about Billy Beane the player but to paraphrase a bit, he was the type of player that never failed long term and when he started to struggle he just didn't know how to handle it. Another analogy I've heard thrown around this concept was back when Mike Tyson was king of the boxing world it often seemed like he'd beaten people before the match started until Buster Douglas knocked him out and frankly he was never the same fighter. That's what I worry about happening with Baez. His natural talent has gotten him this far and he's never needed to have a refined approach to hitting. He now does need that.

It's possible Baez eventually figures it out but it's also possible he never does. Cubs fans above most others should realize this. Around 2 years ago Brett Jackson was hitting .175/.303/.342 with a 15.5%/41.5% walk/k rate in 142 plate appearances as well as decent defense in CF. Baez is hitting .164/.209/.350 with a 5.4%/41.9% walk/k rate in 148 plate appearances at 2B with negative defensive metrics although that doesn't mean that much this early. If you had to pick one without knowing the hindsight Jackson's numbers would seem the safer bet given that he was already walking at a high rate and at the very least playing good defense at a premium position. That's not to say Jackson was ever the better prospect or that Baez will work out the same way but if you're naive enough to believe this isn't a worry then look no further than 2 years ago where people undoubtedly were saying Jackson just needed more time.

It's fair for people to make the argument that not every prospect will come out hot. Erroneously people often talk about Mike Trout as the peak of playing amazing from the start when his first season in the majors he hit .220/.281/.390 . I and I assume others get that. What those people need to realize is the year following those numbers from Jackson he hit .210/.296/.330 9.5%/32.9% between three minor leagues and going into this season almost no one was mentioning him as a hopeful. That's how quick you go from next big thing to an after thought traded away for next to nothing. And like Beane/Tyson, once Jackson failed hard he seemingly lost his confidence. Frankly, none of us can know for sure at this point. But, if the cubs feel <x> player(s) will get them where they need to be and the cost is Baez I'd trade him even knowing his immense potential because where Baez is today and where Baez needs to be in order to be the player people think he can be isn't a minor tune up in AAA next year. It's a major change in his approach to hitting and as we've seen with Castro, even minor changes to approach can really mess with players.
 

JP Hochbaum

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I think we have to accept that Baez might develop more, but that he is likely a better version of Mark Reynolds (minus Reynolds high walk rate). He is more like Castro with much higher power numbers, and a lower contact rate as well.

But he is only 21, so who knows!?
 

brett05

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His value has dropped but its too early to panic
 

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