The Rooney Rule

[modo]

Or Rivera wasn't the Rooney Rule required interview. Do we really know which candidate fulfilled the rule? Rivera was a DC for 2 seasons under Lovie when that interview took place as opposed to Tomlin who had 1 year as DC for the Vikings. I think Rivera was the more established coach, especially soon after the Bears' Super Bowl appearance. I'd say Tomlin was the lesser known higher risk candidate at the time.

Yes we do. Technically the first person interviewed satisfied the rule.

 

[bufordht]

Here's the official wording of the rule:

"We don't want you to consider a candidate's race when you hire them. Therefore we will require you to consider the race of the candidates you interview."

#progress

 

[gmoney1994]

There is no black racism against whites. You are just proving you don’t understand the issue or how it effects people. Racism is an institution that existed for 500 years to hold down black peoples. Black peoples are not capable of oppressing white people, thus not racist. A black man may voice his displeasure with a white man, but it does not mean that he has oppressed him, thus is not racist.

The word racism has nothing to do with oppression. I don't understand where you are getting that definition from. Racism means someone feel one race is superior to another (Go look it up in the dictionary). Black people can 100 percent be racist towards another race just like any other race.

I think you are confused and referring to systemic racism

 

[Hammer]

First of all, we need to clear one thing, slavery wasn't solely focused on just one race, for example it also existed in Europe from middle ages till mid 19 century in a shape of serfdom, where more wealthy white people basically enslaved the poor, similar things were happening in Middle East, eastern Asia, etc. even in 20th century.

Now considering Africa, it just unfortunately happened that in those harsh days of the past (when basically no human rights existed) Europeans were much more technologically advanced than African (and native American) people, so they were able to impose their will on them, ones were basically ethnically cleansed from their territories (native Americans) and the others were enslaved (African people).
It's also kinda interesting to see how in latin part of Americas indigenous people weren't treated so harshly and haven't been ethnically cleansed to the extent that happened in Anglo-American part of the continent, in fact Spanish and Portuguese colonists basically just simply mixed with them.

Now, the key issue in strictly capitalist driven USA is that if you're down in food chain (for example like most of minority people, but recently many white people also suffer the same fate with disappearance of the middle class), it's extremely hard to bring yourself up other than through sport scholarships, and therefore it's extremely hard to expect the equality when you have most people living in ghettos, hoods, poor people areas, where there's little hope for success.
For example, many current race issues would vanquish if USA would be willing to implement some sort of Canadian/Scandinavian social, educational and health systems, which would then help the underprivileged (no matter the race) to achieve some sort of equality.
But I guess in USA it's more important to spend trillions of dollars for army and weapons (so you can accomplish some sort of world wide dominance), rather than focus on well being of your citiens.

 

[Ares]

I'm not trying to make this a race issue.

The Raiders knew they wanted Gruden. Why waste their time interviewing anyone else?

The technically fulfilled the rule by interviewing two minority candidates.... but now there is an investigation because the Fritz Pollard Alliance believes they just set those interviews up to fulfil the rule, and they were going to hire Gruden anyway. Well no shit. How can you prove that you were SERIOUSLY considering a minority candidate?

I think you are taking this at too binary of a level.... like will they get to be HC or not.

Even if you won't get a HC position you are getting in front of GMs and NFL Owners or Execs who have influence and sway.

So if you go into the Raiders interview and impress them, maybe they tap Gruden and go "Hey this guy might be a good fit for your staff" or they might tap you in a few years when they are looking for a HC again.... or if you impress someone and they move to another team's front office they might advocate for you to get another HC interview or a coordinator interview.

The rule puts minority candidates in a position to be heard/judged by high level NFL people who may not hire them then, but might contribute to them being hired by another team or by that team down the road.... it opens up opportunities.

They might see a candidate and go "He isn't a HC right now, but in 3-5 years he will be" and they share that opinion at Owner's meetings or other forums and the candidate's name winds up on a list for interviews for opportunities down the road.

A HC interview is not like an ordinary job interview.... it has the potential to open up alot of other doors.

 

[modo]

probably should move this thread into the political section

 

[Applefan]

i don't dislike the hiring of Helfrich,but he's an example of why the Rooney Rule is necessary. When a white dude with ZERO NFL experience can get an OC job over minorities who've been offensive position coaches forever.....

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

Does anyone else think this rule is stupid?

For example: The Raiders are now being investigated to see if they fully complied with the rule. Honestly, the Raiders have been wanting Gruden for years... now that he finally decided to come back to coaching, it was pretty much a given that he was going to get hired by the Raiders. Why should they have to interview two minority candidates, or any other candidate for that matter? They know who they're going to hire. If I was a minority candidate, I'd feel like I was wasting my time or being used to fulfil a stupid rule just so the guy they wanna hire anyway will get get hired without a hitch.

Not only that, but what if, hypothetically, a team just doesn't have a minority candidate interested in the HC job? Does the team have to force one to interview?

If a team doesn't want to hire a minority candidate, for whatever reason, this rule doesn't even mean they will or have to. They just have to interview them, then they can hire whoever they want to anyway.

What the hell's the point?

To me, not only is there no question that the Raiders broke this rule, they were amazingly brazen about it.

Until the rule is changed, the Raiders should be investigated, and if it is found that they broke the rule (imo, they did) they should be punished accordingly.

 

[baredown]

And yes, Tomlin was hired after the Steelers had interviewed Rivera. He wasn't a Rooney rule interview.

This is the cynical view of the Rooney Rule, namely that its a check-box formality for appearance purposes. The intent of the Rooney Rule was to get teams to broaden their HC (and GM) job opening searches to include minorities. Based on the past history of NFL hiring practices prior to the Rooney Rule, Tomlin wouldn't even have been considered for the Steelers HC opening. So, he was most certainly was a beneficiary of the Rooney Rule. He has said as much and so have the Steelers.

Funny how some people here tend to look at HC interviews of minority candidates as Rooney Rule interviews, rather than seeing the Rooney Rule as an organizational procedure type of thing in their overall hiring process. Maybe not so funny at that...

 

[PAPABEAR77]

The white people on this thread have no idea the difficulty black people go through everyday.

Bullshit some of us white people grew up in the same neighborhoods


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[bearmick]

Here's the official wording of the rule:

"We don't want you to consider a candidate's race when you hire them. Therefore we will require you to consider the race of the candidates you interview."

#progress

This notion that if we just feign color blindness that racism will go away unfortunately doesn't work. White societies have proven time and time again that we can't treat black people fairly. The result is that we now need the government to guide us to behave properly, like unruly children who need their hands held crossing the road. Don't blame progress, blame white people for being so consistently shit forever :shrug:

 

[modo]

To me, not only is there no question that the Raiders broke this rule, they were amazingly brazen about it.

Until the rule is changed, the Raiders should be investigated, and if it is found that they broke the rule (imo, they did) they should be punished accordingly.

They would have to prove that there was a handshake agreement to hire Gruden before the minority interview process. As long as there was no inferred or actual agreement in place the rule was not violated.....

 

[PAPABEAR77]

This notion that if we just feign color blindness that racism will go away unfortunately doesn't work. White societies have proven time and time again that we can't treat black people fairly. The result is that we now need the government to guide us to behave properly, like unruly children who need their hands held crossing the road. Don't blame progress, blame white people for being so consistently shit forever :shrug:

You got that from CNN


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[bufordht]

This is the cynical view of the Rooney Rule, namely that its a check-box formality for appearance purposes. The intent of the Rooney Rule was to get teams to broaden their HC (and GM) job opening searches to include minorities. Based on the past history of NFL hiring practices prior to the Rooney Rule, Tomlin wouldn't even have been considered for the Steelers HC opening. So, he was most certainly was a beneficiary of the Rooney Rule. He has said as much and so have the Steelers.

Funny how some people here tend to look at HC interviews of minority candidates as Rooney Rule interviews, rather than seeing the Rooney Rule as an organizational procedure type of thing in their overall hiring process. Maybe not so funny at that...

Tomlin's interview had nothing to do with the rule because they had already interviewed Rivera. As has been pointed several times.

My point is that this rule is a check box for any gm/owner that is racist and will not change that person. For all the rest the rule isn't needed. No one who qualified is getting passed over because of their color.

It's either racism or it's not, there isn't accidental hiring bias. This rule won't change a racist.

 

[RiDLer80]

Tomlin's interview had nothing to do with the rule because they had already interviewed Rivera. As has been pointed several times.

My point is that this rule is a check box for any gm/owner that is racist and will not change that person. For all the rest the rule isn't needed. No one who qualified is getting passed over because of their color.

It's either racism or it's not, there isn't accidental hiring bias. This rule won't change a racist.

It may be a check box, but positives can still come from it. At minimum the candidate gets an opportunity to interview for a position he otherwise wouldn't have gotten. That's valuable experience that he could use further down the line in a future interview. Also, he gets in front of people who could influence others. Maybe there's an assistant GM, or exec in the interview that moves along and remembers the past interview and recommends putting that candidate on the shortlist for a future job. Maybe somebody in that room calls somebody else currently at a different organization looking for a coach and recommends him. The point is, it gets their foot in the door of a club they otherwise may not have gotten in.

 

[bearmick]

You got that from CNN


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I don't watch cable news. Thanks for your input though.

 

[PeterMbangala]

This notion that if we just feign color blindness that racism will go away unfortunately doesn't work. White societies have proven time and time again that we can't treat black people fairly. The result is that we now need the government to guide us to behave properly, like unruly children who need their hands held crossing the road. Don't blame progress, blame white people for being so consistently shit forever :shrug:

Yep pretty much.

I don't normally agree with Hub Arkush but a week or so back he was talking about this and saying that...

1) Previously a lot of black coaches weren't even getting interviews so, If nothing else, they are getting interview practice and building up contacts.

2) The rule isn't perfect but it's significantly better than what was happened before and if we have to put up with some awkwardness around tick box interviews then it's a price worth paying.

Don't criticise the rule unless you can come up with something better. Its a sad reflection that we need it in 2018 but it's not unique to the U.S. or the sport of football. The UK is looking to introduce it in soccer because there are so few BME coaches. In a country with so many ethnic minorities, it is insane they we have, I think, two black managers and no Asians in the 92 football league clubs.

 

[baredown]

This is the cynical view of the Rooney Rule, namely that its a check-box formality for appearance purposes. The intent of the Rooney Rule was to get teams to broaden their HC (and GM) job opening searches to include minorities. Based on the past history of NFL hiring practices prior to the Rooney Rule, Tomlin wouldn't even have been considered for the Steelers HC opening. So, he was most certainly was a beneficiary of the Rooney Rule. He has said as much and so have the Steelers.

Funny how some people here tend to look at HC interviews of minority candidates as Rooney Rule interviews, rather than seeing the Rooney Rule as an organizational procedure type of thing in their overall hiring process. Maybe not so funny at that...

Tomlin's interview had nothing to do with the rule because they had already interviewed Rivera. As has been pointed several times.

Sighhhh. The Rooney Rule was put in to force NFL teams to broaden their search process for open HC & GM positions. No Rooney Rule, no reason for NFL teams to stop their long-time practice of just targeting one guy for hire, instead of looking more broadly. No Rooney Rule, no interview for Tomlin, period. Is it really that hard to comprehend that both Rivera and Tomlin got interviews because the Steelers broadened their hiring search process as a result of the Rooney Rule? Asserting Tomlin's interview had nothing to do with the Rooney Rule is just plain silly...

 

[PeterMbangala]

This is the cynical view of the Rooney Rule, namely that its a check-box formality for appearance purposes. The intent of the Rooney Rule was to get teams to broaden their HC (and GM) job opening searches to include minorities. Based on the past history of NFL hiring practices prior to the Rooney Rule, Tomlin wouldn't even have been considered for the Steelers HC opening. So, he was most certainly was a beneficiary of the Rooney Rule. He has said as much and so have the Steelers.

Funny how some people here tend to look at HC interviews of minority candidates as Rooney Rule interviews, rather than seeing the Rooney Rule as an organizational procedure type of thing in their overall hiring process. Maybe not so funny at that...

When Steve Wilks of all people got his interviews, a lot of people brought up the Rooney rule. That speaks volumes.

 

[bufordht]

Sighhhh. The Rooney Rule was put in to force NFL teams to broaden their search process for open HC & GM positions. No Rooney Rule, no reason for NFL teams to stop their long-time practice of just targeting one guy for hire, instead of looking more broadly. No Rooney Rule, no interview for Tomlin, period. Is it really that hard to comprehend that both Rivera and Tomlin got interviews because the Steelers broadened their hiring search process as a result of the Rooney Rule? Asserting Tomlin's interview had nothing to do with the Rooney Rule is just plain silly...

My point is that Tomlin didn't need to be interviewed to comply. The Steelers interviewed him based on merit and thus didn't need a rule to tell them to.