The Ultimate Insult

[houheffna]

The long range shot wasnt used much in the 80s. Id say his shot evoled with the rest of the league. And as you said he had pretty good handles. Im sure he was probably a guard at some point perhaps in High School.


Obviously he was a stud. But to say or act as if his conditioning and refusal to give the same effort on defense he did on offense didnt cost him and his team wins is disengenuine.

Charles Barkley had an amazing statistical career. But to me he waas a Bizzarro Rodman.
Both were considered cancers, both great rebounders, both super athletes, both were undersized, but Rodman defended, while Barkley scored

Calling Barkley some kind of hybrid of Rodman...discredits Barkley. Rodman was not a franchise player...Barkley was. I have never heard a Barkley teammate call him a cancer, especially not a player who played with Barkley during the prime of his career. Barkley never did in Philly, Phoenix or Houston what Rodman did in San Antonio...not even close.

And Barkley had an amazing career...not just an amazing statistical career. You continue to demote a guy who is an all time great to some supporting cast members like Rodman and Pippen...saying that Pippen was a better player. That is where the argument comes in.

 

[houheffna]

I think his conditioning forced him into thhe post. His freak athleticism at 270 and strength, allowed him to flourish as a PF.

But honestly. How much different was his offensive game was Adrian Dantley?

Not much...but then again, how much different was Barkley's all around game from Dantley's? Dantley couldn't hold his own against NBA power forwards night in and night out. Dantley couldn't grab 12 boards a game for his whole career. That is a big difference.

 

[97Bulls]

Calling Barkley some kind of hybrid of Rodman...discredits Barkley. Rodman was not a franchise player...Barkley was. I have never heard a Barkley teammate call him a cancer, especially not a player who played with Barkley during the prime of his career. Barkley never did in Philly, Phoenix or Houston what Rodman did in San Antonio...not even close.

And Barkley had an amazing career...not just an amazing statistical career. You continue to demote a guy who is an all time great to some supporting cast members like Rodman and Pippen...saying that Pippen was a better player. That is where the argument comes in.

Then why did Philly trade hiim? Why did Scottie Pippen call him out? Why did Bob Knight cut his him? Youre acting as if I make this stuff up. Then get bent out of shape when I post the facts to support my POV.

And yes I absolutely feel Pippen was better. It took Charles Barkley a whole career to do what Piiiippen almost did in one. Win an MVP. And most people feel had Pip not missed 10 games, he would won the MVP in 94.

And cut out the franchise player nonsense. What was the end result every year for all of Barkley led teams? They lost. Hell Pippen couldve done that with 12the years. And win an MVP, and DPOY.

Rodman was the bizzarro Barkley. Youre enamored with scoring, Im enamored with results.
Rodman won viirtually wherever he went.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

I think I got under your skin brother...keep the avatar, I will change mines soon enough. I know that being original is not something you are good at. Some are innovators and some are imitators. I like to innovate. Continue to think small, "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"...

Now to the Barkley stuff. Barkley had a "very big headed ego"....because NBA superstars don't have big egos??? Seriously? You guys are hilarious.

I was wrong in one aspect of Barkley's game...he handled the ball well...for a power forward. But he didn't have the offensive game to play 3, he was a 4. There is no doubt about it. At his very best he dominated the paint. I don't doubt Barkley's greatness and I don't doubt that he wanted to win. What I will say is this depiction of Barkley as Stanley Roberts...some fat underachiever is hilarious. He averaged 11.5 rebounds per game...he doesn't do that as a 6'4" small forward. In his career, he played the 3 and the 5. But based on height, he should have been a 2 or even a 1. His body type is larger than most, his losing weight most likely would have affected his ability in the paint. That is what made him such a freakish athlete.



[video=youtube;f_GovCvEdrs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_GovCvEdrs[/video]

Nice video.
Like I said, I think Barkley, being the round beach ball that he was, did well and may have overachieved with his mental and physical handicapps......much power to him.
But, bottom line is, PIPPEN IS BETTER AT JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING.
Pointguard, small forward, power forward and 2 guard....Pippen could play exceptionally well at every position.
Barkley,(WHO REALLY IS A SMALL FORWARD) did very well for himself playing out of position as a power foward.
He had to play PF because he was too fat and slow to play his natural position.

But the bottom line is
PIPPEN IS AND ALWAYS WILL BE REMEMBERED AS A CHAMPION, BARKLEY WILL NOT AND JUST ISN'T.........NUFF SAID.

 

[97Bulls]

Not much...but then again, how much different was Barkley's all around game from Dantley's? Dantley couldn't hold his own against NBA power forwards night in and night out. Dantley couldn't grab 12 boards a game for his whole career. That is a big difference.

Adriian Dantley was a terrible defender too. Hell, one of his legs is shortter then the other. And im not saying Barkley and Dantley were on the same level. Baarkley was by far the better athlete. And used his bulk to fight for position down low. My point is Barkley could've still posted up on offense at SF like Dantley. And been a better defender with less weight.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

May I have this moment to make a very important point to those of you who continue to say that Pippen wouldn't be an NBA champion without Jordan.

Barkley wouldn't have an olympic gold medal if not for Jordan either.

Was Barkley a Jordan coat tail rider too?

Or what about Magic and Bird....I guess they were too for the Olympics...LoL

Everyone who holds a basketball in there hands is a Jordan coatrider.
Even the players in the league today, and Jordan doesn't even play anymore.....just sayin. :shrug:

Guess it all depends on how you look at it.........I guess.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

Nov, 30th 1993
Pippen vs Barkley with Jordanless Bulls.
Enjoy the link below:

http://m.bkref.com/m?p=XXboxscoresXX199311300CHI.html

More stubborn facts:

Charles Barkley 13 points 9 rebounds 3 assists in 36 minutes.

Scottie Pippen 29 points 11 rebounds 6 assists 5 steals 4 blocks in 30 minutes.


This is a factual example of Pippen guarding Barkley and Barkley guarding Pippen and NO JORDAN ON THE COURT OR EVEN IN THE BUILDING......WHAT COATTAILS?

This was just a reg season game, but a very important on that was a nationally televised rematch of the 93 finals minus Jordan....Pippen fresh off injury and still sore....Phoenix has there whole 93 finals team pretty much intact, the Bulls without the best player of the previous finals(jordan) and with a lot of new faces with Pete Myers as the replacement to Jordans position.
It was the game where Pippen and the Bulls regained the respect of still being a threat and actual contender that season even without Jordan....Big game for Pip, but then again Pippen normally shined in big moments as always.
And that's just 1 example of many Pippen-Barkley matchups over the years, most of which Pippen outrated him in stats......EVEN REBOUNDS which is supposed to be Barkleys great venture...Pippen ain't even a powerforward, but has on many occasions out powerforwarded The man, the myth, the legend, the one and only whining, ringless slap stick on court comedian. SIR CHARLES..........Pippen never on paper was a power forward in the starting lineup, but against Barkley teams, Pip for the most part was given the assignment of defending and matching up against Barkley in one way or another.....Even when they were teammates in practice as Rockets....Barkley made his own career harder than it had to be.....Barkleys biggest enemy in the NBA was his dam self.
Now I understand Barkleys hatred of Pippen....

In my opinion, Kevin Johnson was the true leader of the Phoenix Suns, before, during and after Barkley....
Maybe Barkley handicapped there success.....maybe, just sayin...

 

[nwfisch]

May I have this moment to make a very important point to those of you who continue to say that Pippen wouldn't be an NBA champion without Jordan.

Barkley wouldn't have an olympic gold medal if not for Jordan either.

Was Barkley a Jordan coat tail rider too?

Or what about Magic and Bird....I guess they were too for the Olympics...LoL

Everyone who holds a basketball in there hands is a Jordan coatrider.
Even the players in the league today, and Jordan doesn't even play anymore.....just sayin. :shrug:

Guess it all depends on how you look at it.........I guess.

I guess Barkley won a gold in 96 without Jordan.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

I guess Barkley won a gold in 96 without Jordan.

Well then I guess he was riding Shaq-Hardaway-Pippen coattails Then, LoL :shrug:

 

[houheffna]

Nov, 30th 1993
Pippen vs Barkley with Jordanless Bulls.
Enjoy the link below:

http://m.bkref.com/m?p=XXboxscoresXX199311300CHI.html

More stubborn facts:

Charles Barkley 13 points 9 rebounds 3 assists in 36 minutes.

Scottie Pippen 29 points 11 rebounds 6 assists 5 steals 4 blocks in 30 minutes.


This is a factual example of Pippen guarding Barkley and Barkley guarding Pippen and NO JORDAN ON THE COURT OR EVEN IN THE BUILDING......WHAT COATTAILS?
And that's just 1 example of many Pippen-Barkley matchups over the years, most of which Pippen outrated him in stats......EVEN REBOUNDS which is supposed to be Barkleys great venture...Pippen ain't even a powerforward, but has on many occasions out powerforwarded The man, the myth, the legend, the one and only whining, ringless slap stick on court comedian. SIR CHARLES.
Now I understand Barkleys hatred of Pippen....

In my opinion, Kevin Johnson was the true leader of the Phoenix Suns, before, during and after Barkley....
Maybe Barkley handicapped there success.....maybe, just sayin...

Facts are very stubborn...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=pippesc01&p2=barklch01

Barkley had the best numbers of anybody on the Dream Team...by far. He led the team in scoring and he shot 71% from the field. Barkley never needed Jordan to beat Angola.

I remember Pippen griping and complaining about his role on the team while playing with Barkley. That wasn't Barkley's fault. Hakeem and Barkley were the top options for that team offensively...and rightfully so. I don't know where you are getting this stuff from.

In your opinion, Kevin Johnson was the team's leader? I don't think so...anybody who watched the league that year knows that Barkley was the second best player in basketball in 1993.

And what is this Barkley is jealous of Pippen stuff? Pippen was the second guy on a title team. Barkley was never worried about beating Pippen, he worried about beating Jordan. That was his adversary.

 

[houheffna]

Adriian Dantley was a terrible defender too. Hell, one of his legs is shortter then the other. And im not saying Barkley and Dantley were on the same level. Baarkley was by far the better athlete. And used his bulk to fight for position down low. My point is Barkley could've still posted up on offense at SF like Dantley. And been a better defender with less weight.

He wouldn't have been one of the league's greatest rebounders though. Something Dantley never did well...Barkley doesn't grab those boards playing on the perimeter.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

And yes I absolutely feel Pippen was better. It took Charles Barkley a whole career to do what Piiiippen almost did in one. Win an MVP. And most people feel had Pip not missed 10 games, he would won the MVP in 1994

Don't forget that Pippen was a front runner to win MVP in 1995 also.
As we all know, Pippen lead his team in EVERY single major statistical catagory in 95.
He was very Lebron James-like that season...with a much higher IQ of course....LoL...
Not many in NBA history has done that...not many
Has Barkley ever done that?

Let's just pretend that everyone on this forum had a basketball team.
And let's pretend that we have a choice to add Scottie Pippen or Charles Barkely to our team and lead.
Who do we choose?
And we can only choose 1 of the 2.....

Everyones individual answer to the question will show who really knows basketball.

I choose Pippen, all day, every day for so many factual basketball reasons.

Chemistry, skill, leadership, athletism, and versatility.......Pippen pretty much Trumps Barkley in those 5 most important key words when it comes to basketball player judgement.....

 

[97Bulls]

Don't forget that Pippen was a front runner to win MVP in 1995 also.
As we all know, Pippen lead his team in EVERY single major statistical catagory.
He was very Lebron James-like that season...with a much higher IQ of course....LoL...
Not many in NBA history has done that...not many
Has Barkley ever done that?

He was the front runner for MVP in 96 before getting injured.

 

[97Bulls]

Don't forget that Pippen was a front runner to win MVP in 1995 also.
As we all know, Pippen lead his team in EVERY single major statistical catagory.
He was very Lebron James-like that season...with a much higher IQ of course....LoL...
Not many in NBA history has done that...not many
Has Barkley ever done that?

He was the front runner for MVP in 96 before getting injured.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

He was the front runner for MVP in 96 before getting injured.

Jordan called Pippen his MVP in 1996 finals.
Jordan definately has the right to make that kind of judgement.
If Jordan calls another man an MVP, it really truely means somthing and is important...

When the goat speaks, we must simply listen and take it at face value....Jordan never minces words.....

 

[scottiepippen1994]

He was the front runner for MVP in 96 before getting injured.

Jordan called Pippen his MVP in 1996 finals.
Jordan definately has the right to make that kind of judgement.
If Jordan calls another man an MVP, it really truely means somthing and is important...

When the goat speaks, we must simply listen and take it at face value....Jordan never minces words.....

 

[scottiepippen1994]

And what is this Barkley is jealous of Pippen stuff? Pippen was the second guy on a title team. Barkley was never worried about beating Pippen, he worried about beating Jordan. That was his adversary.

Opinions can be even more stubborn than facts.

What would Barkley be on Jordans team.........THE SECOND FUCKING GUY, THAT'S WHAT...
Just about every single player in the whole history of the game of basketball since its invention would be THE SECOND GUY on any team that had Jordan in his prime on it..........Including Kobe....Magic........Bird............BILL RUSSELL, even Kareem........

Jordan was an immortal and not normal......Rare as the lost Arch of the Covenant.......TO AIR IS NOT HUMAN.....

So tell me Hue, would Barkley be the number 1 guy on Jordans team?

Come on, don't be ashamed, just say it.....tell the truth.............Because the truth can be a stubborn thing as well.

Don't hate, you can't possibly be mad at me man...I'm just doing what has to be done....and what has to be done is hard work....correcting you in your PROPoganda is no easy task....someones got to do it, and that's where I come in....and I have to do it a lot, maybe thats why you feel like I stalk you when its not that at all....Its just me doing what nobody else other than 97 Bulls fan has the courage and work ethic to correct misguided staements by you...........I mean, why not? After all, don't you spend like 99% of your time on this forum trying to correct everyone else?........why is it so wrong when the favor is returned to you? :dunno:

 

[houheffna]

Then why did Philly trade hiim? Why did Scottie Pippen call him out? Why did Bob Knight cut his him? Youre acting as if I make this stuff up. Then get bent out of shape when I post the facts to support my POV.

And yes I absolutely feel Pippen was better. It took Charles Barkley a whole career to do what Piiiippen almost did in one. Win an MVP. And most people feel had Pip not missed 10 games, he would won the MVP in 94.

And cut out the franchise player nonsense. What was the end result every year for all of Barkley led teams? They lost. Hell Pippen couldve done that with 12the years. And win an MVP, and DPOY.

Rodman was the bizzarro Barkley. Youre enamored with scoring, Im enamored with results.
Rodman won viirtually wherever he went.

So then Rodman was better than any player who didn't win a title? GTFOH. I would take Malone, Barkley, Garnett when he was with Minny over Rodman any day. Those players were alpha dogs. Rodman was not on that level...stop the madness. Winning is a consequence of who you play with. Barkley, Ewing...those players were all time greats without rings. As I stated often that Lebron James was an all time great with no rings.

Pippen never won MVP. Period. Never won a finals mvp. Never did win DPOY.

Please stop with the "most people feel Pip would have won MVP" nonsense. You don't know most people...and you don't have much ammo to back up that claim. I have pointed out numerous times that better players like Kobe Bryant didn't win MVP based on the team's standings. Pippen's team was 3rd in the conference. If I am not mistaken, the 3rd best team's best player has won MVP once since the writers started voting...Jordan. And Pippen didn't have that type of year. So that would explain a little bit why Barkley didn't get more consideration. If you actually did homework you would know these things. Again, learn the damn league's history. Learn basketball!

Hakeem had a better year, was the better player...and had a worse squad than Pippen did. Pippen wasn't the best player in basketball that year. I watched the league that year...evidently you didn't.

The stuff about Pippen winning MVP over Jordan in 1996 is even dumber...give me a break.

 

[houheffna]

Jordan called Pippen his MVP in 1996 finals.
Jordan definately has the right to make that kind of judgement.
If Jordan calls another man an MVP, it really truely means somthing and is important...

When the goat speaks, we must simply listen and take it at face value....Jordan never minces words.....

Jordan also stated continuously...year after year that Barkley was MVP worthy while in Philly. What happened is another story. Truth is, Barkley's best years were in Philly. Pippen couldn't touch those numbers on his best day. Again, stop the madness.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

Jordan also stated continuously...year after year that Barkley was MVP worthy while in Philly. What happened is another story. Truth is, Barkley's best years were in Philly. Pippen couldn't touch those numbers on his best day. Again, stop the madness.

The madness stops when you answer one simple ass question....and ill repeat it once again.

WOULD BARKLEY BE NUMBER 1 OR SECOND MAN ON THE SAME TEAM AS JORDAN??????????????????????????????????????

WELL?


...........our audience awaits your answer once and for all........SIR HUE....................

:jackson:

[video=youtube;NNaZedAWmlE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNaZedAWmlE[/video]