The Ultimate " So Its 2016 Now" Thread

[KBisBack!]

Yes Maddux was a prospect at some point. Whom as rocket science would dictate was developed by the Cubs. I don't even approve of Theo but sure I'd slurp him. But yes that makes sense because Edmonds had more to do than Pujols right? You yourself said they were role players. Does that mean they grew their core players? Or did they just find them in the clubhouse one morning?

Too dumb to respond to with more than these eleven words.

 

[Flacco4Prez]

"smart TRADES and signings" was what I quoted before... apparently you can't read, for trades usually require prospects involved one way or the other.

I agree with this exactly. Most trades involve prospects. That's what makes baseball special compared to the other 3 sports. You can trade for the "future". The Cardinals and Rangers have the two best farm systems in baseball right now. It's not coincidence that those two teams have been the most successful in their respective leagues over the past two years. TO say this isn't the case is ridiculous but judging by a couple of your posts I am not surprised.

 

[Flacco4Prez]

Too dumb to respond to with more than these eleven words.

Your the perfect fan for me lol. I would love to make fun of the Royals and Broncos but that's not why I am here, but how can you say this is dumb response when you resort to invoking *** jokes to make a point. Is that really your last resort? Stereotypical Kansas hick. Or do you live in Denver? How about Kansas City? No? St.Louis? WTF is wrong with people these days. This isn't the place for *** jokes. Maybe you should go find your own sports forum. But I doubt they make one for those who pick and choose their teams even though they live on opposite coasts of the country. Can't wait for the "my grandpa was a Broncos fan, my second cousin's best friend was a Flyers fan, and my great aunt's niece lived in Kansas City" speech.

Didn't take long for me to call someone out lol

 

[patg006]

Your the perfect fan for me lol. I would love to make fun of the Royals and Broncos but that's not why I am here, but how can you say this is dumb response when you resort to invoking *** jokes to make a point. Is that really your last resort? Stereotypical Kansas hick. Or do you live in Denver? How about Kansas City? No? St.Louis? WTF is wrong with people these days. This isn't the place for *** jokes. Maybe you should go find your own sports forum. But I doubt they make one for those who pick and choose their teams even though they live on opposite coasts of the country. Can't wait for the "my grandpa was a Broncos fan, my second cousin's best friend was a Flyers fan, and my great aunt's niece lived in Kansas City" speech.

Didn't take long for me to call someone out lol

^^This has to be willrust. Or Jeff. Or Scrub.......is that you scrub? Cena?

Everybody, in every town has pieces of garbage; the poster you're addressing (KB) happens to be one of the most knowledgeable baseball fans I know/have talked baseball. If people would stop saying dumb things; like proven players are still prospects; you'd figure it out. You dont have to bend the knee and accept his opinion, as its just that.

Prospects are prospects until they reach a certain point of 2-3 years in the majors when they either establish themselves as any of: a consistent player, everyday player, part time player, back up, or bust. If you try to spin to me "well Eli Marrero and JD Drew were still prospects when shipped for Adam Wainwright and Jason Marquis," I'd call you an idiot. Marrero was 29 going on 30 and Drew was 27 going on 28 going into the 2004 season. Drew came up to the Majors in 1998, Marrero in 97. They were no longer "prospects" in 2003, 6 and 7 years into their ML careers. Drew became an everyday player, Marrero a part time, back up catcher. Dave Duncan then turned Wainwright and Marquis into solid and above average pitchers.

But nobody wants to credit Duncan or LaRussa; its all about the prospects, right?

 

[Flacco4Prez]

^^This has to be willrust. Or Jeff. Or Scrub.......is that you scrub? Cena?

Everybody, in every town has pieces of garbage; the poster you're addressing (KB) happens to be one of the most knowledgeable baseball fans I know/have talked baseball. If people would stop saying dumb things; like proven players are still prospects; you'd figure it out. You dont have to bend the knee and accept his opinion, as its just that.

Prospects are prospects until they reach a certain point of 2-3 years in the majors when they either establish themselves as any of: a consistent player, everyday player, part time player, back up, or bust. If you try to spin to me "well Eli Marrero and JD Drew were still prospects when shipped for Adam Wainwright and Jason Marquis," I'd call you an idiot. Marrero was 29 going on 30 and Drew was 27 going on 28 going into the 2004 season. Drew came up to the Majors in 1998, Marrero in 97. They were no longer "prospects" in 2003, 6 and 7 years into their ML careers. Drew became an everyday player, Marrero a part time, back up catcher. Dave Duncan then turned Wainwright and Marquis into solid and above average pitchers.

But nobody wants to credit Duncan or LaRussa; its all about the prospects, right?

Thanks for clarifying. But I was mostly pointing out the fact that he resorted to insult the other kid. When you are supposedly winning a debate, you don't resort to personal insults. That just makes it look like you lost the debate. LaRussa and Duncan were both a part of growing the prospects and making them successful on the ML level. That's what the Cardinals have always been great at. You can't trade players for role players when you are in the position the Cubs are in. They need core players to build around which is why they have to resort to receiving prospects in trades.

Once again sorry for lashing out, but living in the DC area and going to school with people whom are *** I have no tolerance for kids who resort to name calling to make a point. You don't know who you are making fun of online. Chances are if you knew him in real life you would talk often as you both share similar interests or you wouldn't be on the site. To me in looks like a misunderstanding because if that is the JZ from another site that I'm thinking he is also a very respected member there. Are you with Dave, JZ? Dont want to say the site and get blasted for spamming or recruiting?

 

[patg006]

Thanks for clarifying. But I was mostly pointing out the fact that he resorted to insult the other kid. When you are supposedly winning a debate, you don't resort to personal insults. That just makes it look like you lost the debate. LaRussa and Duncan were both a part of growing the prospects and making them successful on the ML level. That's what the Cardinals have always been great at. You can't trade players for role players when you are in the position the Cubs are in. They need core players to build around which is why they have to resort to receiving prospects in trades.

Once again sorry for lashing out, but living in the DC area and going to school with people whom are *** I have no tolerance for kids who resort to name calling to make a point. You don't know who you are making fun of online. Chances are if you knew him in real life you would talk often as you both share similar interests or you wouldn't be on the site. To me in looks like a misunderstanding because if that is the JZ from another site that I'm thinking he is also a very respected member there. Are you with Dave, JZ? Dont want to say the site and get blasted for spamming or recruiting?

So far JZ and I greatly disagree on how we would run the team; and thats fine. I feel Ricketts and Theo shouldnt sacrifice the current state of the ML team for the sake of only focusing on the farm system we will be lucky if 1-2 of these highly touted kids becomes half of what they're hyped to be.

He listed the cardinals as a prime example of a consistent winning team; and I alluded to the fact the Cards didnt just build the farm, they did BOTH build the farm while signing/acquiring the right players. Earlier in the thread I listed a host of names that didnt originally come from the Cards, but mostly from signings and trades. They signed Chris Carpenter and Eckstein, and Kyle Lohse and Jason Isringhausen. They traded Major Leaguers (NOT prospects, if you think 6 and 7 year vets are prospects thats as dumb as saying a 30 year old man is still a child) for Scott Rolen, Jim Edmonds (who was traded for MVP David Freese). The big piece acquired for prospects was Matt Holliday; but still St Louis smells like roses because nobody can tell me what Brett Wallace and Clay Mortenson are doing.

The cards are NOT a prime example of building farm then cultivating and fielding talent; they make the SMART move at the RIGHT time. You want an example of building a great farm system; tampa bay rays. Oakland Athletics. Small market teams who cant afford to keep multiple stars.

The cubs are not small market. The cubs are not the A's or Rays; financially handicapped. The cubs are a top revenue team in baseball. The brand sells, wrigleyville and the stadium sell, losing sells, beer sells. They have money to spend, and yet they dont. A competitive team we feel is NOT too much to ask for. Eric Chavez's 2 year 8 million is something the cubs should have jumped all over; because I'm starting to believe a garbage bag is better than Ian Steward and Valbuena.

Ignoring obvious major league need to fill a pipeline who's ETA is looking like another 3 years is something the Miami Marlins, Athletics, and Rays do.

Not the Chicago Cubs.

 

[CherokeeReds]

We can argue and insult each other for 20 more pages of posts, but it's all kind of pointless. None of us can do anything about how the Cubs are being run.

Either you believe that there's a plan to make the Cubs competetive, or you decide that Ricketts is a greedy s.o.b. who only wants to make as much money as possible.

If you think there's a plan to be competetive, you wait it out.

If you think the owner's a crook, find another team to root for, save yourself some frustration.

 

[JZsportsfan]

So far JZ and I greatly disagree on how we would run the team; and thats fine. I feel Ricketts and Theo shouldnt sacrifice the current state of the ML team for the sake of only focusing on the farm system we will be lucky if 1-2 of these highly touted kids becomes half of what they're hyped to be.

He listed the cardinals as a prime example of a consistent winning team; and I alluded to the fact the Cards didnt just build the farm, they did BOTH build the farm while signing/acquiring the right players. Earlier in the thread I listed a host of names that didnt originally come from the Cards, but mostly from signings and trades. They signed Chris Carpenter and Eckstein, and Kyle Lohse and Jason Isringhausen. They traded Major Leaguers (NOT prospects, if you think 6 and 7 year vets are prospects thats as dumb as saying a 30 year old man is still a child) for Scott Rolen, Jim Edmonds (who was traded for MVP David Freese). The big piece acquired for prospects was Matt Holliday; but still St Louis smells like roses because nobody can tell me what Brett Wallace and Clay Mortenson are doing.

The cards are NOT a prime example of building farm then cultivating and fielding talent; they make the SMART move at the RIGHT time. You want an example of building a great farm system; tampa bay rays. Oakland Athletics. Small market teams who cant afford to keep multiple stars.

The cubs are not small market. The cubs are not the A's or Rays; financially handicapped. The cubs are a top revenue team in baseball. The brand sells, wrigleyville and the stadium sell, losing sells, beer sells. They have money to spend, and yet they dont. A competitive team we feel is NOT too much to ask for. Eric Chavez's 2 year 8 million is something the cubs should have jumped all over; because I'm starting to believe a garbage bag is better than Ian Steward and Valbuena.

Ignoring obvious major league need to fill a pipeline who's ETA is looking like another 3 years is something the Miami Marlins, Athletics, and Rays do.

Not the Chicago Cubs.

I understand what you are saying. My only point is there hasn't been all that many opportunities to improve the Cubs at the ML level. Those players they traded for prospects were old veterans that we would not have been able to trade for younger players. As for free agents, the same thing. Really Fielder is the only franchise player I would want who has been a free agent since Theo has come over. Hamilton and Pujols got way too much money and although they would have instantly become the Cubs best player, they really wouldn't have changed much in terms of our success on the field.

The Cubs are not a small market and I don't like how we are 3rd in our division in terms of payroll, but I do like how we have avoided giving huge deals to older, players on the decline. My biggest issue with Theo was not upgrading the 3B position in FA and yes, as you said Chavez was a guy I really wanted. So I agree with what your saying, I just personally think it is better to get the core players from within the organization because they will be under team control through their prime years. Usually when an elite FA is available they are about 30 and that is too old to throw money at for a team a couple years from competing.

 

[KBisBack!]

I have no tolerance for kids who resort to name calling to make a point.

And yet you made no comment about the others who resorted to name calling me in your rush to wet your diapers up on your soapbox.

Be consistent in your whining at least.

Ok, now will come the list of players 25 or under who are better than Rizzo in my opinion in my next post........

 

[KBisBack!]

Ok.... here are the players 25 and under who I feel are better than Rizzo and in no particular order before people start throwing their sippy cups about the order listed.

Gerardo Parra, Jose Altuve, Starlin Castro, Mike Trout, Manny Machado, Elvis Andrus, Starling Marte, Paul Goldschmidt, Bryce Harper, Salvador Perez, Jason Heyward, Will Middlebrooks, Giancarlo Stanton, Eric Hosmer, Freddie Freeman, Matt Harvey, Clayton Kershaw, Matt Moore, Madison Bumgarner, Mat Latos, Chris Sale, Stephen Strasburg, Mike Minor, Jose Fernandez, Brett Anderson, Shelby Miller, Craig Kimbrel, Addison Reed, Aroldis Chapman, Kelvin Herrera, and Kenley Jansen.

That has to be at least 30 names.

 

[KBisBack!]

We can argue and insult each other for 20 more pages of posts, but it's all kind of pointless. None of us can do anything about how the Cubs are being run.

Either you believe that there's a plan to make the Cubs competetive, or you decide that Ricketts is a greedy s.o.b. who only wants to make as much money as possible.

If you think there's a plan to be competetive, you wait it out.

If you think the owner's a crook, find another team to root for, save yourself some frustration.

Ahh yes. The always mature "go root for another team" instead of pointing out how poorly the team is being run.

 

[KBisBack!]

My only point is there hasn't been all that many opportunities to improve the Cubs at the ML level.

Then your only point is wrong.

There have been two entire offseasons to improve the Cubs at the ML level.

It hasn't happened.

There have been plenty of players available besides the mega deals that could have been gotten in the 3-4 year contract range who could have made the major league team better without impacting the building of the farm system in the slightest while at least giving the fans a decent product to watch while we wait for the Powerball numbers to come in on the minor league system.

 

[KBisBack!]

I just personally think it is better to get the core players from within the organization because they will be under team control through their prime years. Usually when an elite FA is available they are about 30 and that is too old to throw money at for a team a couple years from competing.

Well let's take a look at the Boston Red Sox this year.

The team lost 93 games last year and the brain trust around here has said that is too much ground to make up in one offseason (despite the many examples and yet another about to be provided).

After they were able to unload all of Theo's high priced FA's to the Dodgers, they should have simply pocketed the money and wait for the system to provide their replacements right? That is what several have consistently said is the 'smart' thing for the Cubs to do.

But that is not what they did at all.

They were VERY aggressive in the FA market this offseason. The same FA market that the agenda folks say there was nothing available that would make the Cubs better. I can't even type that last sentence with a straight face it is so ignorant.

Anyways, the went out and signed Mike Napoli, Shane Victorino, Stephen Drew, Ryan Dempster, Koji Uehara and Jonny Gomes.

Napoli is 31, Victorino is 32, Drew is 30, Dempster is 36, Uehara is 38, Gomes is 32. How stupid of Boston to throw money at a bunch of players 30 or over for a team who lost 93 games last year so must be a couple years from competing.

They are off to a 11-4 start which is the best in the American League.

Whoops.

They may not win the East or even make the playoffs, but it looks like they will at least be competitive which is all some Cub fans are asking for. A competitive team while the farm system is being built up.

I find it interesting how often teams turn around from a 90 loss team to a competitive team the next season despite all the experts on message boards saying it is impossible to do.

 

[mountsalami]

looks like a misunderstanding because if that is the JZ from another site that I'm thinking he is also a very respected member there. Are you with Dave, JZ? Dont want to say the site and get blasted for spamming or recruiting?

Who cares.

Many of us that have come over from the CBS site here now have been active members there for years. I myself for thirteen of them.

I don't care if I'm respected or not. Respect has to be earned. Opinions are one thing. Joking and sarcasm are another, and flat out stupidity will get you a rise out of some.

KB is an extremely intelligent person and knows his baseball. His writing style is very unique and entertaining also. To say that he is an asset to this message board is an understatement.

You had better have your facts and big boy pants on when trying to argue something false. Because you are going to get called on it. Some have the stamina and intelligence to debate you into submission.

:fap:

 

[Mr. Cub]

I'll take 07-08 every time over last year and what this year looks like.

To even try to compare the two is ignorant.

I used those 2 teams as that even though we have a contender, it doesn't mean we'll win anything. So everyone who acts like Theo is bringing us a championship in 2015-or 16 or whenever is expecting too much.

 

[chibears55]

i like the fact that their trying to build up the minor league system and try to make it a strong point for the future teams needs whether its to use for trading to gain a needed veteran player or restore a position of need.
lets face it, the cubs minor league has not been very good over the years as far as having consistent major league talent that either sticks or excels.

i do question the route of not signing good FAs or keeping some of the decent players they had to try and win games now and help ease in some of the younger players their inserting like castro, rizzo, and castillo.

i havent gone into the full blown frustration mode because i want to see how this ends up in the next couple of years, but i do want to start seeing more players being added to this team that will stick and not be used as trade bait come july.

 

[mountsalami]

i like the fact that their trying to build up the minor league system and try to make it a strong point for the future teams needs whether its to use for trading to gain a needed veteran player or restore a position of need.
lets face it, the cubs minor league has not been very good over the years as far as having consistent major league talent that either sticks or excels.

i do question the route of not signing good FAs or keeping some of the decent players they had to try and win games now and help ease in some of the younger players their inserting like castro, rizzo, and castillo.

i havent gone into the full blown frustration mode because i want to see how this ends up in the next couple of years, but i do want to start seeing more players being added to this team that will stick and not be used as trade bait come july.

The minor league system is for players that don't have the potential yet or never will at the ML level.

If the ML team was worth a damn....None of this constant garbage about the minor league system would be talked about as heavily as its been the last couple of seasons.

The trade deadline, free agency, the draft, and the minor leagues should never be the topics at the forefront so early in the season.

The last two seasons its been the main topic of discussion. Thank your idiots at Command Central for charging playoff team ticket prices and placing a four A garbage team on the field. All for the rewarding journey ahead that will create a decade or two of winning baseball 20 years from now.

 

[BearsWillWin]

If you think there's a plan to be competetive, you wait it out.

If you think the owner's a crook, find another team to root for, save yourself some frustration.

So if you think your owner sucks..........you should find a new team rather than voicing your opinion and having some debate about it on message boards? You do realize the point of sports message boards, no?

You can disagree with what your favorite team is doing and still be a fan.

New site..........same idiots.

 

[mountsalami]

So if you think your owner sucks..........you should find a new team rather than voicing your opinion and having some debate about it on message boards? You do realize the point of sports message boards, no?

You can disagree with what your favorite team is doing and still be a fan.

New site..........same idiots.

Welcome aboard BWW. Every board I've went to it's been 95% pro Theo. Which is fine, but don't you dare mention anything negative, or a banning could be your death.

Very good message board here. No problems with voicing opinions either way. A few stray retards here and there. But they haven't been posting as of late. I wonder why ?

 

[patg006]

Very good message board here. No problems with voicing opinions either way. A few stray retards here and there. But they haven't been posting as of late. I wonder why ?

Jntg wants you to know nobody is perfect Salami :fap::fap::fap: