Trade deadline banter

[chibears55]

Looks like it would be Alva backing up and Cat in AAA. Might be something to it honestly. Joe hasn't used Cat except that one game. Most likely they don't feel that he is ready and need more playing time. That trade frees him up to catch.

Now the whole Verlander bit. Basically a 2 year window. Tigers have said they would absorb contract to facilitate. Not sure how much. This year he has not been effective. But his velocity is still near 95 MPH. Moving him away from the DH also helps.

That said Lester, Arrieta, Verlander, Hendricks, Lackey. Montgomery back in the pen.

Honestly I would trade Butler and a few low end prospects while saying no to the cash hold. The cash hold is to get higher quality guys and Verlander is not a price that merits it.

I see the interest in Verlander because I still don't believe Epstein and Hoyer are ready to unload any of their young hitters.. top prospects or on MLB roster..

I think their going to hold onto all those major chips til the off season and go from there...


They still have to find out who going to be part of their future going forward...

Will Schwarber figure it out,or do you risk holding him and he just an all or nothing hitter with below AVG. defense..

Who plays Centerfield? Is it Almora job in 2018 or is he a trade chip, right now he getting little opportunity..

Middle Infield...
Russell Baez Happ
2 of those 3 need to play everyday eventually... they need to figure out which 2 they want and use the other as possible trade bait for SP..

Caratini and Candelario
Do you hold onto them for depth or use them as trade chips..


Not sure if Management ready to make these decisions in next couple weeks...


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[CSF77]

My opinion:

Candy: more value as a trade chip.

Caritani: will not get much playing time as a back up to enhance his highest impact. (Hitting). They are better off trading him to a team that needs a long term catching option. Back up catchers are always out there.

Verlander: comes down to 56 mil at the end of the day. 28 mil per year. To get true value the Tigers would have to offset 16 mil. The catch is Verlander has full no trade rights. Now my insight is he would wave it to take a shot at rings over those 2 years. The best fit for him is Houston. They are poised to win and have the talent to off set contract. Verlander by himself is not turning the Cubs into a WS fav.

Now I believe that after the break that they will start to make some moves. They need to add a back up catcher and 1 starter. I'm not sure if Verlander will wave for the Cubs or not. Seeing this year it would be a no. The next 2 he would have a good shot at a ring. So it is a maybe.

So if they wanted to have Det to absorb contract so they have more payroll flexibility it would make sense to give up 2 prospects of 50 grade. I would deal Clifton and Underwood. Then promote Alozay up.

 

[CSF77]

They are deluded

The Tigers are “looking for [a] big,big,big return without salary offset” in exchange for Justin Verlander, according to the perception of teams who have asked about the star right-hander, ESPN’s Buster Olney reports (Twitter links).

It isn’t surprising that Detroit would aim this high in trade talks, both because Verlander has been such a cornerstone for the franchise and for “it only takes one team to say yes” reasons. Other reports have suggested that the Tigers would be open to eating some of Verlander’s remaining salary, so it could be that the Tigers are willing to move from their initial demands.

 

[CSF77]

No one will bother on that. Big return on 2500 inning arm in decline with 28 mil per on the table. Talk about a dumb GM. That is like the Cubs putting Jake on the block and saying "only your #1. Suck it"

 

[beckdawg]

Re: Tigers

I wasn't all that thrilled by the idea of Verlander to begin with. Big money, old age, declining results. Those are generally not good signs. Add to that "big price" and I think you have recipe for disaster. I'm also not that interest in Avilia. Am I crazy here? Would the cubs not just be better off signing Derek Norris to a 1 year deal and using him as the prototypical back up catcher who doesn't play much? From my understanding he's pretty strong defensively but hasn't been able to hit at all the past 2 years. Given you want Contreras playing as much as possible anyways I think i'm fine with that contribution if you don't want to give Caratini time this year. He certainly wouldn't be a huge impact offensively but I'm not really sure Avila is either. He's got an unsustainable BABIP. He also has the same problem that plagues a lot of cubs. He walks at an exceptional rate but his K rate is through the roof. It's nearly 30% this year and it's 27.7% for his career.

To be frank, I'm not really that keen on anyone thus far in in the trade season. Gray at the right price would be fine with me. Shark really cheap and with some money coming back would be ok. Q I don't think will realistically happen. Cole would be interesting but seems unlikely. Outside of that, I'd almost rather just hold onto assets. Verlander really doesn't interest me. Archer would be nice but seems unlikely as well. I think they are going to have to get creative. For example, can they get Kevin Gausman from the O's? I mentioned the idea of Daniel Norris before.

 

[CSF77]

Re: Tigers

I wasn't all that thrilled by the idea of Verlander to begin with. Big money, old age, declining results. Those are generally not good signs. Add to that "big price" and I think you have recipe for disaster. I'm also not that interest in Avilia. Am I crazy here? Would the cubs not just be better off signing Derek Norris to a 1 year deal and using him as the prototypical back up catcher who doesn't play much? From my understanding he's pretty strong defensively but hasn't been able to hit at all the past 2 years. Given you want Contreras playing as much as possible anyways I think i'm fine with that contribution if you don't want to give Caratini time this year. He certainly wouldn't be a huge impact offensively but I'm not really sure Avila is either. He's got an unsustainable BABIP. He also has the same problem that plagues a lot of cubs. He walks at an exceptional rate but his K rate is through the roof. It's nearly 30% this year and it's 27.7% for his career.

To be frank, I'm not really that keen on anyone thus far in in the trade season. Gray at the right price would be fine with me. Shark really cheap and with some money coming back would be ok. Q I don't think will realistically happen. Cole would be interesting but seems unlikely. Outside of that, I'd almost rather just hold onto assets. Verlander really doesn't interest me. Archer would be nice but seems unlikely as well. I think they are going to have to get creative. For example, can they get Kevin Gausman from the O's? I mentioned the idea of Daniel Norris before.

I believe that they could go after Archer in the winter meetings. A package of Eloy, Cartiani, Alzolay and Tseng would hold enough weight to push it. You could argue it would be a overpayment.

As far as this year is concerned they might be well off just holding the deck. The only blue chip they would have is Candy and he is not a player that you center a deal around. So it would also cost either De La Rosa or Cease to get back a quality arm back.

It might be better to go into the meeting looking for a reload vs over paying the market right now. They have 5 guys right now and 2 on the mend. It is not like they are not able to finish the season. I do not see 1 starter fixing the issues going on. Those issues are fixed when the O is in tune vs unpredictable. That is solved when Happ and Schwarber are fully adjusted to the league.

So in view of this I wouldn't deal unless they is a strong offer going on that you can center around Clifton and Candy with a non ranked guy.

 

[greg23]

Derek Norris would be a downgrade on so many levels.....hell no.

Avila is having a great season and I believe is a lhb which adds to his value.....wouldnt pay a lot for him but he fits the profile of what we need.

 

[beckdawg]

Derek Norris would be a downgrade on so many levels.....hell no.

Avila is having a great season and I believe is a lhb which adds to his value.....wouldnt pay a lot for him but he fits the profile of what we need.

@Norris I'm not sure how much it would matter. If you're suggesting to just stick with Caratini that's fine too in my book. But I wouldn't give up shit for avila. My point on Norris was if you're uncomfortable keeping a rookie Caratini up that you could bring in norris who's strong defensively and just play Contreras like 75-80% of the time with Norris as a pure defensive back up option.

 

[chibears55]

Don't really recall this happening but I'm sure it has..

Last couple days both Lester and Bryant suggesting a trade to help team on field and in clubhouse...

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[greg23]

@Norris I'm not sure how much it would matter. If you're suggesting to just stick with Caratini that's fine too in my book. But I wouldn't give up shit for avila. My point on Norris was if you're uncomfortable keeping a rookie Caratini up that you could bring in norris who's strong defensively and just play Contreras like 75-80% of the time with Norris as a pure defensive back up option.

Guy is hitting about 190 his last year and a half (600 abs) with 200 k"s has become awful defensively and has a pending domestic violence issue

Yeah....lets trade for that guy!

 

[TC in Mississippi]

So Marcus Stroman has been thrown into the trade rumor mill with most saying that Toronto is willing to listen. Makes sense if they're going full rebuild as he only has 3.5 years of control. It would be a different package needed than for Archer as you would think they'd want younger guys and not big league or near ready guys.

 

[beckdawg]

Guy is hitting about 190 his last year and a half (600 abs) with 200 k"s has become awful defensively and has a pending domestic violence issue

Yeah....lets trade for that guy!

He's a FA.You just would have to sign for him. Didn't know about the domestic violence thing though.

 

[brett05]

So Marcus Stroman has been thrown into the trade rumor mill with most saying that Toronto is willing to listen. Makes sense if they're going full rebuild as he only has 3.5 years of control. It would be a different package needed than for Archer as you would think they'd want younger guys and not big league or near ready guys.

I'm thinking it would take Sloy and two of the Cubs top pitching specs to land him. Do you feel he's your young, TOR?

 

[TC in Mississippi]

I'm thinking it would take Sloy and two of the Cubs top pitching specs to land him. Do you feel he's your young, TOR?

Could be. Eloy, Cease and Ademan probably gets it started with another lower level prospect, but I'm sure the Cubs would try to get it done without Cease. You could be right on a second pitcher though, although Shapiro has a similar philosophy to Theo on young hitters.

 

[brett05]

Could be. Eloy, Cease and Ademan probably gets it started with another lower level prospect, but I'm sure the Cubs would try to get it done without Cease. You could be right on a second pitcher though, although Shapiro has a similar philosophy to Theo on young hitters.

He is an interesting piece if they are really trying to trade him. Silly in my eyes unless the haul is big.

 

[beckdawg]

So Marcus Stroman has been thrown into the trade rumor mill with most saying that Toronto is willing to listen. Makes sense if they're going full rebuild as he only has 3.5 years of control. It would be a different package needed than for Archer as you would think they'd want younger guys and not big league or near ready guys.

He's not a big enough impact for the likely price in my eyes. He's right around league average in K rate. And while he doesn't walk a ton of guys, to pay for him like you would any other top starter to me is foolish. I wasn't that high on Gray when people were putting big returns on him. I think as a pitcher Stroman is less useful than Gray. Even with more control, I wouldn't pay the same thing today that teams will inevitably offer for Gray who's come down in price.

 

[brett05]

He's not a big enough impact for the likely price in my eyes. He's right around league average in K rate. And while he doesn't walk a ton of guys, to pay for him like you would any other top starter to me is foolish. I wasn't that high on Gray when people were putting big returns on him. I think as a pitcher Stroman is less useful than Gray. Even with more control, I wouldn't pay the same thing today that teams will inevitably offer for Gray who's come down in price.

Unfortunately the days of every day players value being so high has gone. Pitchers appear to be king for the past couple of seasons and do not appear to show signs of slowing down.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Unfortunately the days of every day players value being so high has gone. Pitchers appear to be king for the past couple of seasons and do not appear to show signs of slowing down.

I would disagree there. While you have correctly pointed out that impact pitchers rarely move and when they do it's for big packages of young players, impact hitters don't move at all anymore unless they're up against FA or haven't made it to MLB yet. The days of teams trading guy like Miguel Cabrera in his prime are long since past. Even the Dodgers, who certainly thought about moving Yasiel Puig didn't do it because the value wasn't there to move a solid defender that still had upside. The theory that you need to develop hitters and sign or trade for pitchers has really taken over the game even as those trades have diminished.

 

[beckdawg]

Unfortunately the days of every day players value being so high has gone. Pitchers appear to be king for the past couple of seasons and do not appear to show signs of slowing down.

Not really debating that. I'm just saying if you're going to pay a stiff price pay it for someone worth that. For example, the red sox gave up a crap load to get Sale but they got someone who was worth that. On the contrary, I'm not sure a case like the Shark/Hammel trade for Russell and others equates to good value. I know why oakland did it but to me it's a similar case to Stroman.

 

[anotheridiot]

Something has to give, but we already have too many fielders, so its picking the poison.

Jay has to have some value now, but people think he is too valuable. Can someone take LaStella PLEASE????????????? What will it cost to get rid of those two, Happ, Baez or Schwarber.

Everyone knows the cubs drafted a DH in Schwarber. Nobody saw Happ with 29 rbi's AFTER SUCH A SLUMP in 47 games.

This is not Verlander of 2011 anymore. Detroit will sell him like he is. Take away the two bad starts and Verlander has a 3.8 era in a league that pitchers are usually at least .5 runs over a NL pitcher. Its gonna take a big name or eating all the money.