Trade deadline banter

[CSF77]

According to Bruce Levine, the Cubs are showing interest in veteran outfielder*Denard Span.

Theo Epstein*and*Jed Hoyer*realize the team could use a consistent veteran bat at the top of the lineup, similar to what*Dexter Fowlergave the Cubs the previous two seasons.



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It wouldn't hurt but I'm not sure if it will fix it.

 

[beckdawg]

It wouldn't hurt but I'm not sure if it will fix it.

I don't get that. They already have Almora and Jay that they seemingly don't want to play in CF.

 

[beckdawg]

If there is nothing on the table as "better" and it costs Zag and Candy I honestly wouldn't make a stink about it.

But

I would rather have Q.

If TB wanted Candy in the package because they wanted to move Longora off the hot corner in his 30's then that plays as a factor.

Honestly I would be talking to the Rays primary just to see what it would take in theory to even entertain the idea. I would bring up names that I am thinking of in other deals just to get a reaction or sense of interest. Those players would go under potential good towards Archer.

But basically I would get a feel of when and if they would do it. Do I have what it takes to make a offer. I wouldn't even concider the competition at this point but I would hold onto my list to up the anti.

Well sure I wouldn't deal anyone that Tampa would want in the offseason for a potential Archer run. I'm just saying I don't think Shark is realistically going to cost that much if SF is dumping salary to rebuild. And I think targeting him may be a better idea than trying to run into 2 pitchers in FA this offseason. They know Shark as a player and what he brings and seemingly had interest in him rather than lackey. If they can get him fairly cheap I'm all for it.

And one thing I'd mention about Shark is that while I've never said I thought he was an ace even back when he was with the cubs, he has the ability to go out and dominate on any given night. I don't think he's consistent enough to be in the upper echelon of pitchers and his career basically shows that. But having a guy like him as your #3 or #4 starter isn't a bad thing.

 

[CSF77]

In theory if they did get Archer, then Lester, 3-5 would be Shark, Hendricks, ?

They would still have to sign a F/A

But the system would be pretty much tapped at that point

 

[beckdawg]

In theory if they did get Archer, then Lester, 3-5 would be Shark, Hendricks, ?

They would still have to sign a F/A

But the system would be pretty much tapped at that point

Eh... I'm not sure how tapped it would really be. Depends more on what Archer costs. Also if we assume Archer stays put til the offseason I think then you might talk about moving pieces presently on the cubs MLB roster. For example, you could realistically make the case that moving one of Happ and Baez makes sense. Right now it's tough because the cubs lack a back up SS other than Baez but in the offseaosn you could sign a cheap vet to work as a bench piece if you chose to move Baez. Obviously Eloy almost certainly would have to be involved but if you start with a package of say baez and eloy that's already pretty big. I'd argue that's already close to the value that the white sox got for sale given Eloy is widely regarded as a top 10 prospect and baez obviously was one too. Even if you go with happ instead that's two top 20ish type players. I think you'd only need one fringe top 100 type and a couple of fringe MLB pieces to make a deal come together.

Realistically, I think you can make both a Shark deal and an Archer deal without giving up Albertos, De La Cruz and Cease. If I'm correct the system wouldn't be that gutted. It would lack hitters near the majors but that's really not a concern for the next 2-3 years when the cubs have a ton of guys on rookie contracts. Certainly they would need to draft/develop more hitting and they would probably lack some impact hitting for the foreseeable future but they are going to have several years in the draft plus after this season they will be able to dip back into the IFA pool on a bigger level.

 

[chibears55]

I don't get that. They already have Almora and Jay that they seemingly don't want to play in CF.

Like I said if it true, then I can only guess that maybe Almora part of a deal for a SP

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[beckdawg]

Like I said if it true, then I can only guess that maybe Almora part of a deal for a SP

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I don't get the long term play though. If you're dealing Almora then who's your long term CF? Heyward? Happ isn't very good defensively there(-4.8 UZR/150 in an admitttedly small sample) and eventually Schwarber is going to be back in LF. Just strikes me as people without legit ideas of what going on inside the cubs organization. Not putting that on you btw as you're just passing along the info. I think they are fine at lead off when Zobrist gets back to form.

 

[CSF77]

I don't get the long term play though. If you're dealing Almora then who's your long term CF? Heyward? Happ isn't very good defensively there(-4.8 UZR/150 in an admitttedly small sample) and eventually Schwarber is going to be back in LF. Just strikes me as people without legit ideas of what going on inside the cubs organization. Not putting that on you btw as you're just passing along the info. I think they are fine at lead off when Zobrist gets back to form.

I'm thinking they are just looking at a 2 year window if they did. Not a long term solution.

It would change the dynamic of the lead off. IDK if it makes a vast improvement honestly. What has affected this year the most has been Russell. Last year he drove in near 100 RBI's and seemed to be in line to clean up the OBA ahead of him. That has been missing and Joe has had to go to a committee approach.

Anyways...Honestly if they decided to let Jay sit on the lead off for now I don't see this vast drop off. It factors the most when the roster is at full. Then you have to commit to either Happ or Zobrist. That part I can get wanting Span in CF so you can use Happ and Zo primarily at 2B hitting in the middle.

On cost: It would have to be Almora. That deal would kill his playing time. Maybe a pitcher added in but nothing of impact.

 

[beckdawg]

I'm thinking they are just looking at a 2 year window if they did. Not a long term solution.

But there in lies my issue. Would you gamble on the next half year plus 1? I mean if you're making the span move you may as well go all in on someone like Darvish or any other short term rentals out there. I don't think that makes sense either but the point remains. I just don't think Span makes that much difference to be honest. He's hitting .297/.348/.457. The cubs CF as is has hit .241/.318/.392. That's a pretty marginal upgrade to throw away your long term.

 

[chibears55]

I don't get the long term play though. If you're dealing Almora then who's your long term CF? Heyward? Happ isn't very good defensively there(-4.8 UZR/150 in an admitttedly small sample) and eventually Schwarber is going to be back in LF. Just strikes me as people without legit ideas of what going on inside the cubs organization. Not putting that on you btw as you're just passing along the info. I think they are fine at lead off when Zobrist gets back to form.

Could just be smoke or someone thinking who available that would fit best now over Maddon leadoff roulette..
I always get a kick out of reporters "sources"..
As much as GM, etc. like to keep things top secret, are we to believe every organization has a leak to a reporter..
If I'm GM, I'm finding that leak and firing them.

As far as who would take over CF..
If Span can give them 2018, I'm sure there would be someone else in system that could be ready by late 2018 or 2019..
If not , they can always trade for or sign someone.

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[CSF77]

It does make sense as a CF for 1.5 if you are giving that time for Happ to mature. Or you have another long term CF in mind.

Honestly it feels leaky info

 

[beckdawg]

It does make sense as a CF for 1.5 if you are giving that time for Happ to mature. Or you have another long term CF in mind.

Honestly it feels leaky info

I know you keep pushing the idea of Happ as a long term CF but I think it's a bad idea. He's not very good defensively there. He's comparably below average at CF that Schwarber is in LF.

 

[chibears55]

Say they do get Span..
Here how I see the lineup in second half..

1.Span CF
2.Happ 2B
3.Bryant 3B
4.Rizzo 1B
5. Heyward RF
6. Contreras C
7. Schwarber LF
8.Russell SS

Caratini
Baez
Zobrist
LaStella
Jay

I can see either Baez or Russell, and Almora being used to trade for a SP or two

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[TL1961]

In theory if they did get Archer, then Lester, 3-5 would be Shark, Hendricks, ?

They would still have to sign a F/A

But the system would be pretty much tapped at that point

Our big moves are to re-acquire two players we moved out?

I'd like to have Archer back, but Shark?

The guy spent three years whining and wanting out. Not the guy I want back.

 

[CSF77]

I know you keep pushing the idea of Happ as a long term CF but I think it's a bad idea. He's not very good defensively there. He's comparably below average at CF that Schwarber is in LF.

Fansgraph has him at -4.8 CF, -10.7 2B and 10.7 LF

They have Almora at -13 in CF this year.


that is 150 not current. They are both around the same right now in UZR. .3 Happ/-2.7 Almora.

Dont ask me. That is their stats. Honestly It makes me feel that Happ is the better athlete but Almora has high skills with less natural talent.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

The only real source for the report on Span, outside of bloggers, is Bruce Levine who is nearly always wrong. Span is a stupid choice and a quick fix when Theo and Jed have been very clear that those are not the kind of deals they are making this year.

 

[chibears55]

www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/07/cubs-asked-tigers-about-availability-of-verlander-

The Cubs have made contact with the Tigers about veteran righty*Justin Verlander*and catcher*Alex Avila, according to a report from MLB.com’s Jon Morosi (Twitter*links). At this point, though, no real trade talks appear to have taken place.

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[CSF77]

www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/07/cubs-asked-tigers-about-availability-of-verlander-

The Cubs have made contact with the Tigers about veteran righty*Justin Verlander*and catcher*Alex Avila, according to a report from MLB.com’s Jon Morosi (Twitter*links). At this point, though, no real trade talks appear to have taken place.

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I don't see the issue with Contreras catching myself.

 

[CSF77]

Looks like it would be Alva backing up and Cat in AAA. Might be something to it honestly. Joe hasn't used Cat except that one game. Most likely they don't feel that he is ready and need more playing time. That trade frees him up to catch.

Now the whole Verlander bit. Basically a 2 year window. Tigers have said they would absorb contract to facilitate. Not sure how much. This year he has not been effective. But his velocity is still near 95 MPH. Moving him away from the DH also helps.

That said Lester, Arrieta, Verlander, Hendricks, Lackey. Montgomery back in the pen.

Honestly I would trade Butler and a few low end prospects while saying no to the cash hold. The cash hold is to get higher quality guys and Verlander is not a price that merits it.

 

[chibears55]

I don't see the issue with Contreras catching myself.

You answered your own question above..
?

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