Trade deadline banter

[Parade_Rain]

What you get with Verlander are more Kate Upton sightings at Wrigley. From a business perspective, it's a good trade. From a W-L perspective? Not so much.

 

[chibears55]

I don't expect Theo to make any major trades that going to involve anyone on main roster or any of their top prospects like Jiminez...

I just think he going to wait til off season and see what available then.
which will also give him more time to reevaluate his guys

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[anotheridiot]

I still think now is the time to get that controlled young starter they claimed to be looking for. I dont think Verlander is that guy. Verlander is the guy that might replace Lackeys spot, which should be the fifth starter.

Gotta remember we are picking up Hendricks so the rotation should get a boost.

 

[CSF77]

Verlander is not the answer. Not when they are saying full contract and a haul. Almost makes me think we are talking about Archer....

Dumb idea to even concider it

As far as this year I doubt that much hapens honestly. They are not a .600 team looking for a starter. They are a .500 team looking for a life saver. Not a wise idea to go into panic mode and blow talent and future payroll on a mistake.

I see them going for a under the radar move this year. They have kicked the tires here and there but to see the cost vs delving deeper.

As it stands, Kyle is coming back and Lackey shouldn't miss a start. Anderson should be ready soon. This really will bolster MR with Montgomery and Butler moved into those roles.

If it is just a foot issue with Lackey that is good news. That just means he needs rest vs replacement.

Sure at the end of the day you want a Upg to Anderson but I see a smaller move that holds long term impact vs a quick fix

 

[anotheridiot]

What are you looking for Anderson to give this club? One good start and 4 bad ones? Averages 4 innings per start, 12 BB to 16K, gave up 22 runs in those 22 innings. hitters batting .347 against him. He should have been released.

 

[JP Hochbaum]

Verlander is not the answer. Not when they are saying full contract and a haul. Almost makes me think we are talking about Archer....

Dumb idea to even concider it

As far as this year I doubt that much hapens honestly. They are not a .600 team looking for a starter. They are a .500 team looking for a life saver. Not a wise idea to go into panic mode and blow talent and future payroll on a mistake.

I see them going for a under the radar move this year. They have kicked the tires here and there but to see the cost vs delving deeper.

As it stands, Kyle is coming back and Lackey shouldn't miss a start. Anderson should be ready soon. This really will bolster MR with Montgomery and Butler moved into those roles.

If it is just a foot issue with Lackey that is good news. That just means he needs rest vs replacement.

Sure at the end of the day you want a Upg to Anderson but I see a smaller move that holds long term impact vs a quick fix

This. People say every season is precious, Theo's words, but that doesn't mean we sacrifice prospects to help us for the next 10 precious seasons for a very small outside chance this season.

Go for guys who are having bad seasons, under control, and would cost us top 20 prospects, not top 5 prospects. Matt Moore and Tanaka come to mind.

 

[CSF77]

It it is me I do nothing. This winter meeting I'm aiming for Archer in at trade then looking to sign Holland as a F/A.

 

[CSF77]

What are you looking for Anderson to give this club? One good start and 4 bad ones? Averages 4 innings per start, 12 BB to 16K, gave up 22 runs in those 22 innings. hitters batting .347 against him. He should have been released.

That is why I was saying to retain Butler. Anderson has been piggybacked in AA in rehab. Puglos :/ not sure on name was the starter he replaced. p has picked up in the 5th and get it to the late innings. Anderson in 4 inning stints has been pretty decent.

That said Buttler has been a 2 times through the rotation guy. Him picking up 3-4 innings on Anderson's day gives the pen a day off.

Not great but if they are hanging .500 who cares

 

[zack54attack]

Stroman anyone?

http://www.chicitysports.com/2017/07/06/chicago-cubs-interested-in-marcus-stroman/


Would take a lot to get him and IDK if the Cubs really want to give up top prospects right now.

 

[CSF77]

I'm not sure that he is in the top echelon of pitchers.

I would rather have Archer. That said there is not much wrong with Marcus. His SO ration is a little low for a "ace". So that bit is a stretch.

But if they did sell Eloy and Candy with Clifton. Value wise it might be on target with the current market value. Then they would retain Alzolay and Tseng for future use. They would still need a back of the rotation lefty but Holland would be a strong option to split up Stroman and Hendricks.

Over all not a sexy trade but thinking of retaining your high impact/ safe bet arms you could do worse

 

[chibears55]

Not sure if anyone heard Epstein interview today but he basically said that the answer to a Cubs turnaround this year isn't coming via trade..
He said the answers are already in the clubhouse..

So, if you believe what he saying, you can take it as not to expect any major deals this deadline..

I've been saying lately that I don't expect him to make any and wait til off season..
I just think he not ready to pull the trigger on any of his young players, and especially now since they don't know which of them on current roster that struggling can or will turn it around...

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[CSF77]

Not sure if anyone heard Epstein interview today but he basically said that the answer to a Cubs turnaround this year isn't coming via trade..
He said the answers are already in the clubhouse..

So, if you believe what he saying, you can take it as not to expect any major deals this deadline..

I've been saying lately that I don't expect him to make any and wait til off season..
I just think he not ready to pull the trigger on any of his young players, and especially now since they don't know which of them on current roster that struggling can or will turn it around...

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And he said earlier that they are in the market for controllable SP and more Pitching.

Him going out there and saying that is true. The key to turning around the season is the 25 guys on the roster. What he said is what I have been saying. There is no life saver on the market. And it is true. All a starting pitcher can do is pitch 1/5 of the games. And expecting him to pitch at a high level and the O to click on his games only affects 1/5 of the remaining games.

That is why it is a team sport. The 25 guys need to put together a winning streak. Get some momentum then it makes sense to add a guy to improve the odds in a 5 game series.

In reality: If Jake can put together a string of quality starts and Lackey can get past his foot issues. Kyle reverts back to last years form. The rotation is not bad then. Lester most likely is in a off year. So you get what you can from him. That really leaves a balky 5. Anderson got hammered by AA pitchers today. Not really a answer.


Now in the off season Alex Cobb and Derek Holland are hitting the market. Those 2 are 30-31. So it is not like they can't find talent in F/A.

 

[beckdawg]

At this point do you think the Yankees would just do a straight up salary dump of Masahiro Tanaka? Assuming he doesn't opt out after this season he has 3 years $67 mil left. I brought him up before but we're closer to the deadline and he still has a 5.25 ERA. His underlying numbers are actually pretty decent. He has a 9.03 k/9 and a 2.40 bb/9. What's really killed him like so many pitchers this year is his HR/FB rate.

There's a couple of reasons I bring Tanaka up. First of all the cubs obviously were in on him prior to him signing with the yankees. And prior to this year he's had success so some of that adjustment you worry about with japanesse pitchers is less of a worry. He'll only be 29 next year so don't have to worry about a steep decline either in all likelihood. And while he does have a decent chunk of money left, I think the Yankees might eat a little of it to get something half useful. I think he's basically untradable if you don't eat money. I mean I'm sure someone probably takes a shot on him for the proverbial bag of baseballs. He reminds me a bit of the Ivan Nova trade last year which pitt sent Tito Polo and Stephen Tarpley to the yankees for Nova. It's slightly different in that Nova was a pending FA but he had a 4.90 ERA at the time of the deal and I'd argue that 3 years $67 mil potentially makes Tanaka less valuable. Polo and Tarpley aren't even among NYY's top 30 prospects. So, if that's a similar cost to get Tanaka you're essentially trading nothing of value away.

The reason i like this sort of idea which is similar to the Shark trade idea I've floated is you're giving up almost nothing to get a player who if they turn around would be significantly more valuable. So, on the one hand you're giving yourself a shot to get better while at the same time you're not really giving up anything you'll miss or need to pursue a big front line starter in the offseason. If things go south all you're really losing is the money which is why I think NYY(or SF) would have to eat a tiny bit. Another reason i bring this up is Otani at some point is coming to the majors. Having a star like Darvish in texas' case or Tanaka is going to elevate that teams profile in japan. So, it certainly wouldn't hurt matters in wooing him even if it doesn't make a huge dent in the pursuit.

Main reason I bring this up is that outside of Archer there's really not that many young guys that are interesting. Sean Manaea with the A's is worth mentioning but he's probably a few years off trade bait status. I've brought up Daniel Norris before. Robbie Ray and Patrick Corbin are maybe worth discussion if the Dbacks start selling. There's Dan Straily but the cubs already had him and dealt him away. Jimmy Nelson would appear to be a major building block for the brewers. Q and Archer are obvious names. The yankees have a ton of guys but doubtful they are selling any. But that's basically the list of guys under 29 with k/9 over 8 who aren't already on premier teams. And in the case of Tanaka, you'd have to believe he costs substantially less than a Q/Archer.

 

[chibears55]

At this point do you think the Yankees would just do a straight up salary dump of Masahiro Tanaka? Assuming he doesn't opt out after this season he has 3 years $67 mil left.
Main reason I bring this up is that outside of Archer there's really not that many young guys that are interesting.

Why I thought they were and should of traded for some near ready minor league arms last off season, as far as preparing for 2018 when they lose both Arrieta and Lackey..

Don't see teams willing to give up cost controlled young starters til as in case with Archer they get close to FA and Arb costs start to rise and teams like Rays and As can't afford to keep them and are always looking for younger cost efficient players..

Why I think Epstein going to wait til off season to address his pitching so he has the rest of this season to evaluate his young players and maybe have more options to choose from pitching wise.


I recognize a couple years ago that there wasn't going to be much SP options via FA besides mostly over 30s because teams were starting to tie up their top young starters to long term deals..




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[anotheridiot]

This is just garbage. Sure the answer is in the dugout. How about we start with getting these hitters to go the other way. Stop trying to Jack everything out of the park because its not working. Sure, Baez swings out of his shoes, Russell is just pulling the ball, well, what about Rizzo constantly grounding out to short right field because of the shift? Bryant has power to right center and has proven it, but that is the mentality that has to change. So what the cub starters are giving up 2 more runs a game, this is a team so stacked they should be scoring 5 a game easy.

We see Baez go to right and double to the wall, Russell goes out there sometimes, but this team is putting out a RLRLRLR lineup to try to tire out the third baseman of running out to right field.

 

[CSF77]

At this point do you think the Yankees would just do a straight up salary dump of Masahiro Tanaka? Assuming he doesn't opt out after this season he has 3 years $67 mil left. I brought him up before but we're closer to the deadline and he still has a 5.25 ERA. His underlying numbers are actually pretty decent. He has a 9.03 k/9 and a 2.40 bb/9. What's really killed him like so many pitchers this year is his HR/FB rate.

There's a couple of reasons I bring Tanaka up. First of all the cubs obviously were in on him prior to him signing with the yankees. And prior to this year he's had success so some of that adjustment you worry about with japanesse pitchers is less of a worry. He'll only be 29 next year so don't have to worry about a steep decline either in all likelihood. And while he does have a decent chunk of money left, I think the Yankees might eat a little of it to get something half useful. I think he's basically untradable if you don't eat money. I mean I'm sure someone probably takes a shot on him for the proverbial bag of baseballs. He reminds me a bit of the Ivan Nova trade last year which pitt sent Tito Polo and Stephen Tarpley to the yankees for Nova. It's slightly different in that Nova was a pending FA but he had a 4.90 ERA at the time of the deal and I'd argue that 3 years $67 mil potentially makes Tanaka less valuable. Polo and Tarpley aren't even among NYY's top 30 prospects. So, if that's a similar cost to get Tanaka you're essentially trading nothing of value away.

The reason i like this sort of idea which is similar to the Shark trade idea I've floated is you're giving up almost nothing to get a player who if they turn around would be significantly more valuable. So, on the one hand you're giving yourself a shot to get better while at the same time you're not really giving up anything you'll miss or need to pursue a big front line starter in the offseason. If things go south all you're really losing is the money which is why I think NYY(or SF) would have to eat a tiny bit. Another reason i bring this up is Otani at some point is coming to the majors. Having a star like Darvish in texas' case or Tanaka is going to elevate that teams profile in japan. So, it certainly wouldn't hurt matters in wooing him even if it doesn't make a huge dent in the pursuit.

Main reason I bring this up is that outside of Archer there's really not that many young guys that are interesting. Sean Manaea with the A's is worth mentioning but he's probably a few years off trade bait status. I've brought up Daniel Norris before. Robbie Ray and Patrick Corbin are maybe worth discussion if the Dbacks start selling. There's Dan Straily but the cubs already had him and dealt him away. Jimmy Nelson would appear to be a major building block for the brewers. Q and Archer are obvious names. The yankees have a ton of guys but doubtful they are selling any. But that's basically the list of guys under 29 with k/9 over 8 who aren't already on premier teams. And in the case of Tanaka, you'd have to believe he costs substantially less than a Q/Archer.

Nothing wrong with Tanaka in general. With him it is a guessing game. Fastball or split thrown in the same location. That is why he is getting high SO's and HR's. Gambling honestly with him.

My issue is giving up talent for a guy with a opt out. That again is a gamble and I don't see the value of giving up quality. Now if they were looking at a rental and have a long term spot option. Sure. But i i wouldn't give up anything that I'm projecting on the team.

 

[beckdawg]

Nothing wrong with Tanaka in general. With him it is a guessing game. Fastball or split thrown in the same location. That is why he is getting high SO's and HR's. Gambling honestly with him.

My issue is giving up talent for a guy with a opt out. That again is a gamble and I don't see the value of giving up quality. Now if they were looking at a rental and have a long term spot option. Sure. But i i wouldn't give up anything that I'm projecting on the team.

I'd be shocked if he opted out. But presumably that is part of the price discussions if the Yankees were going to dump him.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

So Peter Gammons said on the Score today that Cubs interest in Verlander was mild to non existent and who Theo was really asking about was Michael Fulmer. Obviously he's a better pitcher than any we've discussed, even if Archer has more of a track record, but if you're Al Avila to you entertain offers? If I were him I would. They're the near copy of the 2013 Phillies, a bad team saddled with bad contracts for guys who are unlikely to be moved for much. A 5 year rebuild would require being crazy aggressive and Avila himself might not survive it. That said if I'm him I absolutely listen, but I get the realities. I seriously doubt the Cubs could offer enough to offset the negativity that the Tigers would have to endure, particularly since young pitchers have injury risks which certainly would affect any offer, so I don't think this is going to happen but it's a very interesting scenario in the modern baseball landscape. You could say that if Ruben Amaro Jr. had been ruthlessly aggressive in 2013 he might still be the GM in Philly instead of the 1B coach for the Red Sox.

 

[CSF77]

They won't give up Fullmer. He is a core building block

 

[TC in Mississippi]

They won't give up Fullmer. He is a core building block

I would tend to agree with you, but they probably should. Cabrera is owed $204 mil (including buyout of 2 option years) and is signed through 2023. Their best prospect is Matt Manning a 55 grade pitcher who is years away in short season A- ball, albeit a top 100 prospect, and their aging talent is probably just good enough to keep them out of the top 2 or 3 draft picks for a few years. Fulmer is unlikely to pitch a meaningful game for them until he's close to FA after 2022, and that's if they make very, very good decisions. By no means do I think it will happen, it's pretty hard to ask a GM to make a move like that, but I love that Theo is asking and in reality Detroit shouldn't dismiss offers for Fulmer out of hand.