Trade deadline banter

chibears55

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I wouldn't want Stanton's contract. It's severely back loaded.

Also the idea of dealing Almora is a dumb in my opinion. If Happ has to play daily play him at 2B. There's a reason the front office moved him out of the OF to begin with. Don't let Baez who's a career .247/.291/.407 over 1020 PAs stop that. Baez really hasn't earned more playing time than Almora in my eyes. Almora's a better career hitter over 303 PAs(.271/.325/.411) and arguably as good defensively based on scouting albeit in CF. And frankly I don't even think we're at Almora's peak yet. Last year he couldn't hit LHP and was solidly good vs RHP. This year he's destroying LHP and struggling against RHP. Also like many young hitters his k rate is elevated over his minor league numbers. That could easily come down 3-5%. If he evens his splits out some and the k rate comes down while his walk rate holds stead you could easily be talking about a .280-.290 hitter with a .340-.350 OBP and say .425-.450 slugging. That's basically Dexter Fowler with better defense.
My stance has always been play Almora CF , Happ at 2B , and Baez at SS..

They need to play the 2nd half with an eye towards 2018 and just let the kids play it out..
Bring up some minor league arms and see what they can do..

Id trade Davis for a ransom of prospects..

See what they can get for Arrieta,Rondon, Strop,Zobrist,Jay
Release Lackey


In the end they'll have better idea what they have in these kids and who to move in off-season trades..
Plus
Probably end up with a top 15 draft pick next year..







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CSF77

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After watching Lester get wrecked by the lowly Pirates it is really easy to pull the white flag.

What I'm seeing is Schwarber is 4 for 11 on his return. You know he has Avg about 14 hits per month. So that is a dynamic turn around.

That said I would look at it from a team needs perspective. Right now they are in dire need to get a TOR. That is the highest priority right now and it is a higher priority than worrying about playing time break downs.

The thing is they need a Ace. They don't want to trade from the core. But they may have to with the extra depth that they have.

Baez makes the most sense. He doesn't have a full time spot. He deserves the playing time and there are plenty of teams out there that can use him.

Honestly trading a decent pitching prospect for Profar then using Baez to spear head a trade for a ace. We all know it is going to take a player like Baez to base around.

The real question is who do they target?
 

beckdawg

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I think I'd at least listen on Davis but I'm not sure there's a deal out there that makes much sense. Of the 10 worst BP's based on fWAR only Washington, Colorado, Atlanta and Tampa are contenders. Washington has almost no system left other than Robbles. They need someone like davis but seems like a tough trade to make happen for them. Colorado I have a hard time believing they buy. Same goes for Tampa. Atlanta if they want to get frisky could be interesting. They have pitching for days and also some interesting position players. But I think if you're going to entertain the idea of trading Davis you have to get Chapman/Miller type return. And there's not a lot of elite pitching of a similar value to Frazier/Torres. So, you'd likely have to be willing to take higher tier positional prospects with secondary piece being pitching.

I'd also consider making a bold move with Baez. I'm not 100% what that sort of trade would be but I feel like part of the cubs problem is they are essentially trying to play 3 2B's every day with Zobrist Happ and Baez. That leads to weird stuff like Almora never seeing playing time. Atlanta again could be an interesting case here. Right now they have brandon Phillips at 2B. They also have moved Freeman to 3B to get Matt Adams in the line up. Swanson is clearly their future but he's not hitting this year(.224/.299/.329). Presumably Ozzie Albies is their future replacement for Phillips and Kevin Maitan is their future 3B.

I think there's a number of interesting combos you could put together for a Baez/Davis deal. But even if you'd rather keep Baez think one of him or Happ needs to be moved. I'd keep Russell because I think he's a better hitter and more stable defender than Baez. I'd probably offer either straight up for Gray. I'd also probably offer up either with Jiminez and lessor pieces for Archer.
 

CSF77

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I think I'd at least listen on Davis but I'm not sure there's a deal out there that makes much sense. Of the 10 worst BP's based on fWAR only Washington, Colorado, Atlanta and Tampa are contenders. Washington has almost no system left other than Robbles. They need someone like davis but seems like a tough trade to make happen for them. Colorado I have a hard time believing they buy. Same goes for Tampa. Atlanta if they want to get frisky could be interesting. They have pitching for days and also some interesting position players. But I think if you're going to entertain the idea of trading Davis you have to get Chapman/Miller type return. And there's not a lot of elite pitching of a similar value to Frazier/Torres. So, you'd likely have to be willing to take higher tier positional prospects with secondary piece being pitching.

I'd also consider making a bold move with Baez. I'm not 100% what that sort of trade would be but I feel like part of the cubs problem is they are essentially trying to play 3 2B's every day with Zobrist Happ and Baez. That leads to weird stuff like Almora never seeing playing time. Atlanta again could be an interesting case here. Right now they have brandon Phillips at 2B. They also have moved Freeman to 3B to get Matt Adams in the line up. Swanson is clearly their future but he's not hitting this year(.224/.299/.329). Presumably Ozzie Albies is their future replacement for Phillips and Kevin Maitan is their future 3B.

I think there's a number of interesting combos you could put together for a Baez/Davis deal. But even if you'd rather keep Baez think one of him or Happ needs to be moved. I'd keep Russell because I think he's a better hitter and more stable defender than Baez. I'd probably offer either straight up for Gray. I'd also probably offer up either with Jiminez and lessor pieces for Archer.

The thing with Baez and the Cubs is they have no back up SS. Happ and Zobrist are basically the same defender. Neither are a SS. So they would have to cover back up SS before they even considered trading Baez.

That is why the whole MLBR on Profar caught my attention. He has really never grabbed on with Tex. But the talent is there. He is a SH and for a middle of the diamond type that is a nice perk.

Makes me think
Profar 2B
Bryant 3B
Rizzo 1B
Happ CF
Schwarber LF
Contreras C
Howard RF
Russell SS

This also puts Profar in as the back up SS. This also pushes Zobrist to the bench.

The bench would be:

Zobrist
Jay
Almora
Caritani

That way they can keep 13 pitchers and really not lose anything from the bench.

Now this opens up Baez for a mega deal. Davis I would hold and try to extend. There is most likely a deal to be made here.

The deal I'm thinking of is Profar for Underwood and Black or Johnson let Tex finish up their development and give them a shot at making it.

Then ain for Stroman. The more I think about it he is a solid target. Baez would carry about half of the trade weight needed to pull off the deal. They have Ryan Goins starting at 2B....ya Baez becomes the starter today there.

After that they need pitching. It would take 2 guys. Clifton would be a easy sale. Hudson is starting to look intriguing right now and would be another marketable arm.

The point in marketing Baez is to keep Eloy and Cease off the table. Tor really doesn't need another RH power bat. That is the team. They honestly would be better off adding some LH bats for balance. pitching they really lack a true ace. So they may end up looking another direction to add a lefthanded bat for 2B and Tor prospect to headline that trade.

At the end of the day I wouldn't trade Cease, Tseng or Alzolay. DeLaCruz has been injured sense June 1. I really don't see teams wanting to deal for injured goods.

Roster wise Baez makes the most sense. He has superstar impact and honestly just needs playing time and good marketing.
 

beckdawg

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The thing with Baez and the Cubs is they have no back up SS. Happ and Zobrist are basically the same defender. Neither are a SS. So they would have to cover back up SS before they even considered trading Baez.

If you're trading Davis/Baez you're selling out on the season in which case you can play zobrist/la stella there and focus on a back up guy in FA. They also have options at AAA you could in theory bring up as a purely bench back up who hardly plays.

As for profar he's going to cost far more than he's worth because the cubs can't start him either.
 

CSF77

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Actually they could. 2B is not locked down right now. Add to it Profar is a SH so match up issues are not there. It is more like letting him and Zo split the time this year to keep Zo fresh.
 

Parade_Rain

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I don't know about getting rid of Javy. I'm not completely sold on Russell. Now I believe Russell's issue this season is mental and the personal life is causing it, but I'm not getting rid of Baez unless I know Addy is going to bounce back offensively.
 

beckdawg

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Actually they could. 2B is not locked down right now. Add to it Profar is a SH so match up issues are not there. It is more like letting him and Zo split the time this year to keep Zo fresh.

I don't see the point in trading for Profar when you already have Happ and Baez. You're not going to get him cheap and probably takes several of the top 10 prospects the cubs have all so you can have a back up short stop? Seriously that makes little sense. Assuming you're trading away Baez you'd be far better off playing Happ at 2B and promoting Ozzie Martinez or Jemile Weeks or just go out and find a glove only bench SS. Trading Baez away only to go out and trade for profar creates the same log jam they have right now with middle infielder and you're arguably paying a premium to do so. On top of matters you're also paying a premium on a guy who hasn't proven he can hit at the major league level.

And to be honest I'm dubious there's a Baez trade out there that makes sense. You'd have to get seriously creative to find the starter the cubs need while trading away Baez.
 

chibears55

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I don't see the point in trading for Profar when you already have Happ and Baez. You're not going to get him cheap and probably takes several of the top 10 prospects the cubs have all so you can have a back up short stop? Seriously that makes little sense. Assuming you're trading away Baez you'd be far better off playing Happ at 2B and promoting Ozzie Martinez or Jemile Weeks or just go out and find a glove only bench SS. Trading Baez away only to go out and trade for profar creates the same log jam they have right now with middle infielder and you're arguably paying a premium to do so. On top of matters you're also paying a premium on a guy who hasn't proven he can hit at the major league level.

And to be honest I'm dubious there's a Baez trade out there that makes sense. You'd have to get seriously creative to find the starter the cubs need while trading away Baez.
Baez going to be cubs starting SS next year...
Happ going to start at 2B..

Chesny Young will be UI

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beckdawg

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Baez going to be cubs starting SS next year...
Happ going to start at 2B..

Chesny Young will be UI

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Strongly doubt Baez starts at SS. Russell's been flat out a better hitter on his career and Maddon likes his defense more at SS. Disagree if you want but Russell is younger and is a career .238/.311/.400 hitter. Baez is .247/.291/.407. Also, the defensive metrics vastly favor what Russell has done at SS. Baez is even on DRS over 682 innings with a -3.3 UZR/150. Russell is +42 DRS over 2314 innings and 14.2 UZR/150.
 

beckdawg

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“The Cubs have called almost every team” in search of starting pitching, including asking the Tigers about Michael Fulmer and Daniel Norris. It would take a blockbuster offer for Detroit to eve consider moving Fulmer, as he has already displayed frontline-starter capabilities over his year and a half as a major leaguer, and he has yet to even reach his arbitration seasons. Norris would come at a lesser but still substantial price since he is controlled through 2022, though the southpaw has battled both injuries and inconsistency during his four years in the bigs. The Cubs are known to be looking for controllable young arms, and may be willing to deal from their surplus of young position players to do so.

One Tigers pitcher that isn’t on the Cubs’ radar is Justin Verlander, as one Cubs official tells Gammons that “no one is going to pay $70MM for him, even though he may still be a very good pitcher.” Chicago reportedly at least asked about Verlander at one point, though with Detroit apparently wanting to both get top prospects and get Verlander’s salary off the books, it isn’t surprising that the Cubs’ interest in Verlander was described yesterday as “more smoke than fire” by the Detroit Free Press’ Anthony Fenech.

from gammons.
 

CSF77

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Baez is flashy. SS is better with a sure thing. We deal with enough flashy with Contreras and his 13 errors.
 

TL1961

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After watching Lester get wrecked by the lowly Pirates it is really easy to pull the white flag.

What I'm seeing is Schwarber is 4 for 11 on his return. You know he has Avg about 14 hits per month. So that is a dynamic turn around.

That said I would look at it from a team needs perspective. Right now they are in dire need to get a TOR. That is the highest priority right now and it is a higher priority than worrying about playing time break downs.

The thing is they need a Ace. They don't want to trade from the core. But they may have to with the extra depth that they have.

Baez makes the most sense. He doesn't have a full time spot. He deserves the playing time and there are plenty of teams out there that can use him.

Honestly trading a decent pitching prospect for Profar then using Baez to spear head a trade for a ace. We all know it is going to take a player like Baez to base around.

The real question is who do they target?

Baez has a lot of spots. He's their best SS, 2B and 3rd baseman defensively.

Russell is a very good SS, and selling low on a a guy who will be playing for 15 more years is mistake.

I've watched the Cubs for many years, and too often they built for HR's, with poor D and not a lot of athleticism. Last year they were the opposite of those old teams, and won it all.

I am not looking for a blast from the past.
 

TL1961

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Trade for Profar??

The one thing we do NOT need is another Mi, and paying for him to boot.

What would help this team right now is having FEWER.
 

brett05

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But I think if you're going to entertain the idea of trading Davis you have to get Chapman/Miller type return.
If that is the case, Davis will never ever be traded. Ever. Not even on a PS4 console.
 

CSF77

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Baez has a lot of spots. He's their best SS, 2B and 3rd baseman defensively.

Russell is a very good SS, and selling low on a a guy who will be playing for 15 more years is mistake.

I've watched the Cubs for many years, and too often they built for HR's, with poor D and not a lot of athleticism. Last year they were the opposite of those old teams, and won it all.

I am not looking for a blast from the past.

http://www.chicitysports.com/forum/...dline-banter?p=2795397&viewfull=1#post2795397
 

anotheridiot

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The question you ask is what is Davis going to cost next year and is he even staying? The Royals did not trade him because they did not want him, they traded him because they knew they were not going to sign him again. We all know Soler can be electric hitting 120 mph line drives on a regular basis.

Is Davis going to expect a Chapman deal?

Yeah, you offer Wade a 5-75, if he says no, why not move him and get some more pitching to replace him? I think he is going to be looking at 100 million off season.

He might lock down 35 games, but Maddon is mis using him when they go up by 4+ anyway.

There has to be an offer out there to listen to and let Koji or CJ take the ninth.
 

JP Hochbaum

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Not sure if this means anything, but Caritini just found an apartment in Chicago. Could mean he was told he is staying here?
 

chibears55

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Not sure if this means anything, but Caritini just found an apartment in Chicago. Could mean he was told he is staying here?
Why not?? Nothing wrong with holding him and letting start once or twice through rotation and seeing what he can do.

I'm starting to believe that because of where their at and the struggle of some of the young bats, that their not going to make any major trades and just use the 2nd half to allow the young hitters a chance to figure it out..

This off season we will see some major deals happening

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