Trade deadline banter

[chibears55]

The question you ask is what is Davis going to cost next year and is he even staying? The Royals did not trade him because they did not want him, they traded him because they knew they were not going to sign him again. We all know Soler can be electric hitting 120 mph line drives on a regular basis.

Is Davis going to expect a Chapman deal?

Yeah, you offer Wade a 5-75, if he says no, why not move him and get some more pitching to replace him? I think he is going to be looking at 100 million off season.

He might lock down 35 games, but Maddon is mis using him when they go up by 4+ anyway.

There has to be an offer out there to listen to and let Koji or CJ take the ninth.

If they don't plan on extending Davis..
Why not see if they can get some solid prospects in return , especially if their plan is to trade for young controllable SP..
More prospects the better chance they have at landing such SP..

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[CSF77]

Honestly they should try to extend him right now. They are in a winning window. Not a rebuilding phase. If he wants to hit the market then they make that decision based off what their position in the standings over the next week or 2.

Right now they are on the fence. As long as they are in striking range I'm thinking that they take the draft pick Comp

 

[chibears55]

Strongly doubt Baez starts at SS. Russell's been flat out a better hitter on his career and Maddon likes his defense more at SS. Disagree if you want but Russell is younger and is a career .238/.311/.400 hitter. Baez is .247/.291/.407. Also, the defensive metrics vastly favor what Russell has done at SS. Baez is even on DRS over 682 innings with a -3.3 UZR/150. Russell is +42 DRS over 2314 innings and 14.2 UZR/150.

Sometimes it's not just about the stats when decisions like this is made..

Remember..

Russell still has pending investigation on his domestic situation..

If Maddon has a word in it, he has loved Baez since day 1 in 2015.

Cubs might have their mind set on a particular SP, such team might prefer Russell in the deal.


My own feeling..
if a team says we will give you SP A, we will take either Russell or Baez, you choose which one to give us..
I just think Epstein Hoyer and Maddon would choose to let Russell go..

I do believe one of those 2 will be dealt if not this deadline, definitely in off season

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[Ron Burgundy]

Would Cubs consider dealing Ian Happ at deadline?

The Chicago Cubs currently sit 5.5 games back of the Milwaukee Brewers at the 2017 MLB All-Star Break after a bad first half.Chicago has failed to get in sync and have been frustrating to say the least at times. Sunday's 14-3 loss to the Pittsburgh Pirates was just the icing on the cake in a bad first half.But as July moves on, the MLB trade deadline looms and the Cubs could make some moves.On Sunday, Ken Rosenthal reported that the Cubs could trade a young position player to shake up the team a little bit. Names like Addison Russell, Kyle Schwarber, Ian Happ, Willson Contreras and Javier Baez were mentioned.Chicago would like to acquire a controllable starting pitcher to help boost its rotation which has struggled in the first half.The team also has prospect Eloy Jimenez who is ranked atop the farm system. Jimenez is likely untouchable at the moment.Yahoo Sports' Jeff Passan was on the Bernstein & Goff show Monday and said the Cubs could be dangling Happ as trade bait rather than Jimenez.https://twitter.com/sean_sears6/status/884479344126459905That's a little surprising seeing that Happ has played really well and can play second base or in the outfield. In 183 at bats, Happ is hitting .257 and slugging .546 being a bright spot for the Cubs this year. It's tough seeing the Cubs getting rid of Happ and after trading Gleyber Torres to the New York Yankees last season, losing their top prospect Jimenez this year.But if Chicago really wants a controllable starter, they may have to part with a young player that's already on the roster.

More...

 

[beckdawg]

Sometimes it's not just about the stats when decisions like this is made..

Remember..

Russell still has pending investigation on his domestic situation..

If Maddon has a word in it, he has loved Baez since day 1 in 2015.

Cubs might have their mind set on a particular SP, such team might prefer Russell in the deal.


My own feeling..
if a team says we will give you SP A, we will take either Russell or Baez, you choose which one to give us..
I just think Epstein Hoyer and Maddon would choose to let Russell go..

I do believe one of those 2 will be dealt if not this deadline, definitely in off season

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Maddon's also on record as saying he prefers Russell at SS defensively. Ignoring the domestic situation for a moment, if you read the actions of the front office it's pretty clear what they think. They called Russell up at 21 and he's basically been entrenched at SS since. They could have let him work on stuff at AAA but called him up super early. Baez on the other hand has largely been a utility guy working with and around Zobrist. Now maybe Russell beat his soon to be ex-wife and that changes the teams evaluation here but I'd be really surprised as of today if they moved Russell.

 

[anotheridiot]

Sometimes it's not just about the stats when decisions like this is made..

Remember..

Russell still has pending investigation on his domestic situation..

If Maddon has a word in it, he has loved Baez since day 1 in 2015.

Cubs might have their mind set on a particular SP, such team might prefer Russell in the deal.


My own feeling..
if a team says we will give you SP A, we will take either Russell or Baez, you choose which one to give us..
I just think Epstein Hoyer and Maddon would choose to let Russell go..

I do believe one of those 2 will be dealt if not this deadline, definitely in off season

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I dont trust Russells head either, but his wife refused to talk to MLB. Not saying there may be some civil suit against him eventually that would fill her bank account instead of suspend him, but I think the case is pretty much over as far as MLB is concerned.

 

[anotheridiot]

The Chicago Cubs currently sit 5.5 games back of the Milwaukee Brewers at the 2017 MLB All-Star Break after a bad first half.Chicago has failed to get in sync and have been frustrating to say the least at times. Sunday's 14-3 loss to the Pittsburgh Pirates was just the icing on the cake in a bad first half.But as July moves on, the MLB trade deadline looms and the Cubs could make some moves.On Sunday, Ken Rosenthal reported that the Cubs could trade a young position player to shake up the team a little bit. Names like Addison Russell, Kyle Schwarber, Ian Happ, Willson Contreras and Javier Baez were mentioned.Chicago would like to acquire a controllable starting pitcher to help boost its rotation which has struggled in the first half.The team also has prospect Eloy Jimenez who is ranked atop the farm system. Jimenez is likely untouchable at the moment.Yahoo Sports' Jeff Passan was on the Bernstein & Goff show Monday and said the Cubs could be dangling Happ as trade bait rather than Jimenez.https://twitter.com/sean_sears6/status/884479344126459905That's a little surprising seeing that Happ has played really well and can play second base or in the outfield. In 183 at bats, Happ is hitting .257 and slugging .546 being a bright spot for the Cubs this year. It's tough seeing the Cubs getting rid of Happ and after trading Gleyber Torres to the New York Yankees last season, losing their top prospect Jimenez this year.But if Chicago really wants a controllable starter, they may have to part with a young player that's already on the roster.

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I dont think Happ shakes up the roster. Heyward, or Rizzo might. Trading a young guy that gets bench time regularly is not the way to shake up a team.

 

[CSF77]

Maddon's also on record as saying he prefers Russell at SS defensively. Ignoring the domestic situation for a moment, if you read the actions of the front office it's pretty clear what they think. They called Russell up at 21 and he's basically been entrenched at SS since. They could have let him work on stuff at AAA but called him up super early. Baez on the other hand has largely been a utility guy working with and around Zobrist. Now maybe Russell beat his soon to be ex-wife and that changes the teams evaluation here but I'd be really surprised as of today if they moved Russell.

Have to agree here. At the end of the day Russell has been the starter. After the play offs you would have expected Baez to seal 2B but again no.

That is why I was thinking that if any player gets traded it would be Baez. He is still a hot ticket trade bait and teams most likely have been asking on him.

But I'm thinking that they would prefer trading Jimenez. Just saying.

 

[chibears55]

Have to agree here. At the end of the day Russell has been the starter. After the play offs you would have expected Baez to seal 2B but again no.

That is why I was thinking that if any player gets traded it would be Baez. He is still a hot ticket trade bait and teams most likely have been asking on him.

But I'm thinking that they would prefer trading Jimenez. Just saying.

No.5 prospect in baseball at just 19YO, not going anywhere....

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[beckdawg]

No.5 prospect in baseball at just 19YO, not going anywhere....

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He's almost 21(20 years 7 months). Not that it really matters but just sayin'. As for "not going anywhere," I've said it before but I think you essentially pick him or Schwarber because he's not a RFer and the cubs really haven't played him as such. If he were he wouldn't have 3x as many innings in LF as he does in RF. And more telling is the fact he's only played 53 innings there this season which amounts to plugging him there on Eddy Martinez's days off. In the past 2 years he's played 145 innings in RF and 899 in LF.

As for him vs Schwarber, if you want to argue in favor of Jimenez that's one opinion. All I'm going to say to that is people need to remember what Schwarber was in the minors. Schwarber utterly laid waste to the minors. I mean he hit .334/.432/.619 over all levels in the minors. You could make an argument he was better in the minors than Bryant who himself was nuts. Schwarber obviously has hit a speed bump which missing a full year probably didn't help. He's looked better since returning though. And perhaps it's slightly unfair to compare him and Jimenez in the minors given Jimenez was younger at the various levels but even his best season in A last year wasn't as good in terms of wRC+ as Schwarber's worst. Just for the record, in the minors Eloy is hitting .293/.340/.473.

That's one of the reasons I reply so sharply when people hate on Schwarber. Some how I don't think people realize how special he was/is. Jimenez is deserving of that top 10 prospect ranking but he isn't anywhere close to what Schwarber was in the minors. That's why the cubs would trade another top 10 prospect in Torres rather than Schwarber. With Schwarber and media/fans it's always been a "yeah but." He's a good hitter yeah but he can't play defense. He's a good hitter yeah but he doesn't have a position. On and on we've seen this but has anyone even brought up his defense this year? Only two times I really remember were the diving play he had into the left field seats to make a catch and one other pretty great diving catch.

Plus if any team is going to be overly attached to Schwarber it's going to be the team that drafted him. Maybe that's a bad thing but it's likely true that they'd trade someone in A+/AA before their starting LF. That's just my take on matters.

 

[Parade_Rain]

The Chicago Cubs currently sit 5.5 games back of the Milwaukee Brewers at the 2017 MLB All-Star Break after a bad first half.Chicago has failed to get in sync and have been frustrating to say the least at times. Sunday's 14-3 loss to the Pittsburgh Pirates was just the icing on the cake in a bad first half.But as July moves on, the MLB trade deadline looms and the Cubs could make some moves.On Sunday, Ken Rosenthal reported that the Cubs could trade a young position player to shake up the team a little bit. Names like Addison Russell, Kyle Schwarber, Ian Happ, Willson Contreras and Javier Baez were mentioned.Chicago would like to acquire a controllable starting pitcher to help boost its rotation which has struggled in the first half.The team also has prospect Eloy Jimenez who is ranked atop the farm system. Jimenez is likely untouchable at the moment.Yahoo Sports' Jeff Passan was on the Bernstein & Goff show Monday and said the Cubs could be dangling Happ as trade bait rather than Jimenez.https://twitter.com/sean_sears6/status/884479344126459905That's a little surprising seeing that Happ has played really well and can play second base or in the outfield. In 183 at bats, Happ is hitting .257 and slugging .546 being a bright spot for the Cubs this year. It's tough seeing the Cubs getting rid of Happ and after trading Gleyber Torres to the New York Yankees last season, losing their top prospect Jimenez this year.But if Chicago really wants a controllable starter, they may have to part with a young player that's already on the roster.

More...

So you're going to trade a switch hitter who has pop and can play OF and most IF spots? Not likely to happen, Ron.

 

[CSF77]

Honestly they will trade from depth. Position players in the minors will go first then minor league pitchers.

As far as on the major league roster. If they are targeting a SP then you kinda expect them to try to get Butler in the deal to offset a minor league player. After that you need a core blue chip. Now that really depends what the other team wants. A's most likely they are looking for 4 return pieces of 2-3 tier. Think Tseng, Alzolay, Steel and a bat like CJ or Young.

White sox would want a Jimenez. Doubt they care about Butler but would want a 2nd player maybe Candy so they can back fill 3B.

Rays would want Alzolay in any deal. I would not go there unless it was Archer. They have a few solid SP that they could deal but I want the Ace if I'm dealing Alzolay.

So to be honest here. I really would be shocked if they pulled a mega inseason. I really think that they will hold the deck and look to offer arb on Jake and Davis. If they accept great if not then they get 2 picks.

In house Tseng is in AAA and honestly would be set up for a look as the 5. Montgomery has just looked bad in general over his last 2 starts. He is a 2 inning guy. So even if Tseng comes in and locks up the 5 they still need a TOR and a lefty to split up Hendricks and Tseng.

So I would still go after Archer and sign Holland as a F/A. Again if I'm trading Alzolay it has to be for Archer. If I can't get him then keep him. He should be ready the following year and has a higher celing than Tseng

 

[chibears55]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...or-league-report-spt-0711-20170710-story.html

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[CSF77]

So you're going to trade a switch hitter who has pop and can play OF and most IF spots? Not likely to happen, Ron.

They won't. Silly to muse it honestly.

I'm seeing the long term:

Bryant, Rizzo,Schwarber Russell, Happ. That is basically the core now. Heyward if he doesn't opt out is added. Guys that they could deal: Baez and Almora. Most likely not but if they are being required in a mega and the starter warrants that kind of a return.

Candi is a guy we would like to see traded but he has looked over matched to this point. Sure a few good AB's but the body of work is lacking.

Zag u know they were tossing him out for scouts to look at. Good eye but not much else to show.

So honestly I can see why some would say: Happ!!! He has impact trade weigh. Sure he has a lot of weight right now. But he fits into the plans.

Another guy is Contreras. Well he holds more trade weight than Happ. They won't trade him either. But he is a work in progress.

That is about it. When you really look at the org. I would rank by trade weight (of guys that they might deal). 1. Jimenez. 2. Baez. Those 2 hold similar trade weight. Main add in: Almora and Candy have similar value. Right now Almora is better but when both get into their primes Candy has a better celing.

3rd piece: a guy like Clifton is ideal. I don't see him as a Cub. Has control flaws and I see them looking at control/command above tools myself. Those high tools guys make for prime trade bait.

On that: if they had another Pitching prospect like Cease but with better command then they would dangle Cease. But with him as the only top 100 arm you will not see them do it.

I still believe that DeLaRosa ends up on the Cubs at some point. He is another solid control pitcher but with higher ended tools than Alozay.

But I'm thinking that Albertos will end up in the top 100 soon. Too much hype on him not to.

 

[CSF77]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...or-league-report-spt-0711-20170710-story.html

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Figured they would limit Cease. Injury didn't help him. Guessing maybe 100-150 innings then shut him down.

I don't see a issue with promoting Eloy honestly.

The 2 guys that I cared about got their promotions. The 3rd guy is still on the DL. Clifton has really taken a step back this year. His lack of command is showing at AA. He may end up sitting another 1/2 season like Tseng did.

 

[chibears55]

He's almost 21(20 years 7 months). Not that it really matters but just sayin'. As for "not going anywhere," I've said it before but I think you essentially pick him or Schwarber because he's not a RFer and the cubs really haven't played him as such. If he were he wouldn't have 3x as many innings in LF as he does in RF. And more telling is the fact he's only played 53 innings there this season which amounts to plugging him there on Eddy Martinez's days off. In the past 2 years he's played 145 innings in RF and 899 in LF.

As for him vs Schwarber, if you want to argue in favor of Jimenez that's one opinion. All I'm going to say to that is people need to remember what Schwarber was in the minors. Schwarber utterly laid waste to the minors. I mean he hit .334/.432/.619 over all levels in the minors. You could make an argument he was better in the minors than Bryant who himself was nuts. Schwarber obviously has hit a speed bump which missing a full year probably didn't help. He's looked better since returning though. And perhaps it's slightly unfair to compare him and Jimenez in the minors given Jimenez was younger at the various levels but even his best season in A last year wasn't as good in terms of wRC+ as Schwarber's worst. Just for the record, in the minors Eloy is hitting .293/.340/.473.

That's one of the reasons I reply so sharply when people hate on Schwarber. Some how I don't think people realize how special he was/is. Jimenez is deserving of that top 10 prospect ranking but he isn't anywhere close to what Schwarber was in the minors. That's why the cubs would trade another top 10 prospect in Torres rather than Schwarber. With Schwarber and media/fans it's always been a "yeah but." He's a good hitter yeah but he can't play defense. He's a good hitter yeah but he doesn't have a position. On and on we've seen this but has anyone even brought up his defense this year? Only two times I really remember were the diving play he had into the left field seats to make a catch and one other pretty great diving catch.

Plus if any team is going to be overly attached to Schwarber it's going to be the team that drafted him. Maybe that's a bad thing but it's likely true that they'd trade someone in A+/AA before their starting LF. That's just my take on matters.

My point is, management still don't know who going to step up and adjust of the kids on the 25 man now, with most everyone struggling..

besides Contreras Rizzo Bryant Heyward and maybe Happ.. nobody else on that roster is a sure thing to be back next year..

I just don't see them trading away one of the top prospects in MLB at least this year without knowing for sure if their set in the corner OF..


I just posted about the Cubs possibly promoting him to AA..

There many possibilities to come of it but one possibility is to get him on track for a call up next year if needed.






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[beckdawg]

Maybe I'm too close to this story because I brought it prior to reporting but I really think the deal most likely to happen is with Detroit and Norris. It's not just a case of the cubs being desperate but I think the cubs really do need to clear some guys in their minor leagues. Candelario is a prime example of a guy who really needs daily MLB PAs. And whether they do it or not moving one of Happ/Baez makes sense for similar reasons because both really need daily playing time. I suppose you could argue Almora goes instead of one of those two but that doesn't really make sense to me.

Detroit has a lot of good young pitching in the minors. 5 of their top 6 prospects are pitchers including Matt Manning who's a potential TOR type with 2 plus pitches and the size you look for out of a work horse. When you add that to Fulmer who they presumably wont trade, they can probably get away with dealing Norris especially when he's unlikely to be useful during their rebuild having less control than Fulmer.

Also, assuming they sell which seems obvious at this point but regardless... you have to imagine Ian Kinsler makes sense. He's got 1.5 years left on his really reasonable deal($11 mil this year $12 mil team option for 2018). Where that is interesting is the cubs happen to have quite the log jam at 2B between Zobrist/Happ/Baez. Detroit doesn't have a single prospect in their top 20 at SS/2B. Iglesias is a fairly typical no hit good defense SS who's only 27. So you could probably build around him but they lack a 2B to pair with him. Victor Martinez is going to be 39 next year as their DH. He's owed $18 mil. I'd imagine they may try to move him by eating some money. Cabrera is still really decent but my god that contract of his. He's owed $30 mil for each of the next 4 years, $32 mil for 22-23 at age 39-40. I can't imagine they can move that and I have to imagine they would prefer to having him DH to get someone younger at 1B. Castellanos at 3B is ok but no where near the player his prospect status suggested hitting .248/.313/.433. And the only infield prospects they have in their top 20 is #16 Arvicent Perez(C) and #20 Zac Shepherd(3B).

Where I'm going with this is I think realistically you might be able to fashion a package of Baez and Candelario plus 1-2 other minor parts for Norris. That then allows them to deal Kinsler for more parts as well as hopefully for their sake Martinez. You could then 1B Candelario, 2B Baez and DH Cabrera. And from the cubs perspective that's very interesting because you could potentially net a young starter without dealing Jimenez while not really impacting your every day line up since you'd still have Happ/Zobrist at 2B.

In terms of Norris, he's a lefty, he just turned 24 and he's got a strong k rate for an MLB pitcher at 8.10 on his career. Walks have been a problem for him this year but his previous 2 years he was under 3 per 9. Pitchers with 8+ k/9 and less than 3 bb/9 don't come around often. With a 5.29 ERA right now you're likely buying low-ish. I mean he's not going to be cheap given he's under control til 2022 but the fact the Gammons mentioned the cubs asked speaks to his possible availability.

Overall a package like that makes a fair bit of sense to both sides. I think you could also potentially sub in someone like Hatch or Clifton if they want pitching rather than Candelario but I don't really think you're giving up too much by Baez + one other pretty decent part.

 

[beckdawg]

I just don't see them trading away one of the top prospects in MLB at least this year without knowing for sure if their set in the corner OF.

I don't think you're trading Jimenez unless you're getting Archer or someone roughly equivalent. Like I wouldn't trade Jimenez for Gray. And I don't think there's going to be a trade of the Archer level out there this deadline. As i mentioned in my previous post I think the tigers and Norris make the most sense because I think you can make that deal without Jimenez. That then sets you up only needing to figure out how to re-sign/replace Arrieta. Given how he's pitched he might honestly take the QO the cubs likely will give him which in some ways would be good for both sides assuming the cubs can't find a way to land Archer.

 

[CSF77]

Maybe I'm too close to this story because I brought it prior to reporting but I really think the deal most likely to happen is with Detroit and Norris. It's not just a case of the cubs being desperate but I think the cubs really do need to clear some guys in their minor leagues. Candelario is a prime example of a guy who really needs daily MLB PAs. And whether they do it or not moving one of Happ/Baez makes sense for similar reasons because both really need daily playing time. I suppose you could argue Almora goes instead of one of those two but that doesn't really make sense to me.

Detroit has a lot of good young pitching in the minors. 5 of their top 6 prospects are pitchers including Matt Manning who's a potential TOR type with 2 plus pitches and the size you look for out of a work horse. When you add that to Fulmer who they presumably wont trade, they can probably get away with dealing Norris especially when he's unlikely to be useful during their rebuild having less control than Fulmer.

Also, assuming they sell which seems obvious at this point but regardless... you have to imagine Ian Kinsler makes sense. He's got 1.5 years left on his really reasonable deal($11 mil this year $12 mil team option for 2018). Where that is interesting is the cubs happen to have quite the log jam at 2B between Zobrist/Happ/Baez. Detroit doesn't have a single prospect in their top 20 at SS/2B. Iglesias is a fairly typical no hit good defense SS who's only 27. So you could probably build around him but they lack a 2B to pair with him. Victor Martinez is going to be 39 next year as their DH. He's owed $18 mil. I'd imagine they may try to move him by eating some money. Cabrera is still really decent but my god that contract of his. He's owed $30 mil for each of the next 4 years, $32 mil for 22-23 at age 39-40. I can't imagine they can move that and I have to imagine they would prefer to having him DH to get someone younger at 1B. Castellanos at 3B is ok but no where near the player his prospect status suggested hitting .248/.313/.433. And the only infield prospects they have in their top 20 is #16 Arvicent Perez(C) and #20 Zac Shepherd(3B).

Where I'm going with this is I think realistically you might be able to fashion a package of Baez and Candelario plus 1-2 other minor parts for Norris. That then allows them to deal Kinsler for more parts as well as hopefully for their sake Martinez. You could then 1B Candelario, 2B Baez and DH Cabrera. And from the cubs perspective that's very interesting because you could potentially net a young starter without dealing Jimenez while not really impacting your every day line up since you'd still have Happ/Zobrist at 2B.

In terms of Norris, he's a lefty, he just turned 24 and he's got a strong k rate for an MLB pitcher at 8.10 on his career. Walks have been a problem for him this year but his previous 2 years he was under 3 per 9. Pitchers with 8+ k/9 and less than 3 bb/9 don't come around often. With a 5.29 ERA right now you're likely buying low-ish. I mean he's not going to be cheap given he's under control til 2022 but the fact the Gammons mentioned the cubs asked speaks to his possible availability.

Overall a package like that makes a fair bit of sense to both sides. I think you could also potentially sub in someone like Hatch or Clifton if they want pitching rather than Candelario but I don't really think you're giving up too much by Baez + one other pretty decent part.

That seems steep for Norris. He is at 1.1 WAR. 8.36 SO/9 with a 4.13. Teams are hitting .359 BABIP. Which lead to hard contact. Honestly him and Baez might be equals in net value. Adding Canderario puts the trade at a Cub disadvantage.

In general you have to weigh a deal by WAR and control when talking about 2 MLB players. Right now both Baez and Norris could become stars in the league or could bust out or just be reserve status. I really doubt right now he is a better option than Montgomery or Butler. With his raw numbers his starts would look shaky. Knowing Theo he would push him to AAA to fix him.

A deal like that honestly we would be talking Candelario and Steel as a trade package. Maybe toss in Young if they are looking to move Kinsler. Young has a GG level glove and can play every spot on the field except C and P. Lacks a arm to start most spots but the glove is strong.

 

[beckdawg]

That seems steep for Norris. He is at 1.1 WAR. 8.36 SO/9 with a 4.13. Teams are hitting .359 BABIP. Which lead to hard contact. Honestly him and Baez might be equals in net value. Adding Canderario puts the trade at a Cub disadvantage.

In general you have to weigh a deal by WAR and control when talking about 2 MLB players. Right now both Baez and Norris could become stars in the league or could bust out or just be reserve status. I really doubt right now he is a better option than Montgomery or Butler. With his raw numbers his starts would look shaky. Knowing Theo he would push him to AAA to fix him.

A deal like that honestly we would be talking Candelario and Steel as a trade package. Maybe toss in Young if they are looking to move Kinsler. Young has a GG level glove and can play every spot on the field except C and P. Lacks a arm to start most spots but the glove is strong.

Not sure where you're getting young and gold glove. Scouting grades on him are a 45 arm and a 50 fielding. As for being too steep, I mean if they want less then sure but when has a young pitcher ever gone cheap? I doubt Steele and Candelario even gets a conversation started. For one thing Norris is a far better player than Candelario. He was a top 50 prospect and I think top 20 at some point. And I don't think you can really judge a 24 year old pitcher by fWAR. For example, Kyle Hendricks debuted at 24 and put up 1.5 fWAR over 80 innings. Norris has pitched 221 innings in the MLB and has been worth 2.6 fWAR. That's roughly a normal season for a starter and given how young he is that's fairly promising results this year not withstanding.

Additionally, what's pressing Detroit to make that deal? They are selling sure but they don't *have* to sell a 24 year old Norris. They wouldn't even consider it unless they were largely overwhelmed. Candelario and Steele isn't overwhelming anyone. Frankly doubt you could get a mid rotation starter with 1-2 years of control for those two alone. Now if you want to argue the cubs shouldn't force a deal to happen ok but I don't really think that's as ridiculous an offer as you do. And prices aren't going to get any cheaper for any other starter that comes up. I'd argue the only way to "win" in hunting for a pitcher is to zig when everyone else is zagging. And by that I mean most people are focused on Gray, Q, and Archer right now. So, detroit might not be fielding that many offers on Norris comparative to those other guys which means while you may be paying a lot you still might be underpaying comparative to what he'd get if he were openly on the market.

Also I'll point you to this list of pitchers under age 28. There's 13 pitchers this year under 28 with a 8+ k/9 who've pitched more than 80 innings. The reason I'm using 8 k/9 is it's roughly where league average is(~20% k rate). You tell me what pitchers on this list are moving because I strongly doubt more than 1 or 2 leave the team they are on prior to FA. Teams aren't stupid. They know this as much as I do. I'd argue Baez for Norris straight up is probably "fair" but that's not how these things go down. Teams getting the pitcher tend to over pay. That's just the way of things. I mean as a recent example, Shelby Miller and Tyrell Jenkins was worth prime Jason Heyward as well as jordan walden.