Trade deadline/rumors

[TC in Mississippi]

Well Beltrain would be your starting LF with Contreras starting C.

Something like:

Fowler CF
Beltrain LF
Bryant 3B
Rizzo 1B
Zobrist 2B
Contreras C
Heyward RF
Russell SS

Youbwould have to deal out Soler MLB, Vogelbach AAA. After that you would have to add Tores.

I do not mind losing Tores at all. Russell and Baez are both young and highly talented. If trading Tores pushes that line up every day with Chapman in the pen. Developing him paid off

Torres is a top 30 prospect, if he's traded it has to be for peak value and I don't think that's in a deal for a pen arm. It's not about not trading guys it's about getting value which so many teams seem to forget and trade top assets for non peak return.

 

[CSF77]

Torres is a top 30 prospect, if he's traded it has to be for peak value and I don't think that's in a deal for a pen arm. It's not about not trading guys it's about getting value which so many teams seem to forget and trade top assets for non peak return.

I don't agree. I believe you have to strike while the iron is hot. What happens in 3 years happens then.

In 3 years Baez and Russell will still be under control. So Torres will just be another short stop but 3rd on the depth chart.

Now Happ as a SH fits the same profile Zobrist is at. Heyward may bounce so you don't give up Eloy.

That is why I said those 2 should hold on to. But a guy who is 3rd deep. Not to mention both Russell and Baez were higher rated prospects.

The reality to gain Beltrain and Chapman you will have to pay. Add to it it keeps them away from other teams looking to rent.

I'm not enamored with any of the talent given up. But if the 2 gained get you even into to series it is worth it. Both have been there before. Not to mention no one will want to face Chapman in a series. And Beltrain has a long history of being clutch in big games.

 

[CSF77]

Why? Why would the Cubs sell young cost controlled talent for old talent?

.294 .332 .539. 19 HR's. Old but that production never gets old

 

[CSF77]

My view point is they need to replace Schwarber's 2nd LH bat in the line up. He will be back next year so you do not want long term control here. But they need that impact back.

We all know that they need a impact arm in the pen. Miller would be more of a return value as he holds control. And that may end up the guy they target. But pulling a guy that scares hitters like Randy Johnson did... Just not facing that maybe worth it alone.

 

[Diehardfan]

Looks like the Yankees have changed their mind on Miller.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/andrew-miller

 

[beckdawg]

The reality to gain Beltrain and Chapman you will have to pay.

Why do people think the cubs can afford both? Beltran is making $15 mil this year and Chapman is making $11.325 mil. And more to the point, where are you even going to play Beltran? You don't trade for him to sit the bench. That means you have to start him and Heyward in the corners and assuming Fowler returns quickly him in CF. That means Baez isn't going to see much if any playing time because Bryant has to start at 3B. And that's also to say nothing of playing Soler.

 

[beckdawg]

The Indians have traded left-handed swingman Ross Detwiler to the Athletics for cash considerations, Paul Hoynes of cleveland.com was among those to report (Twitter link). Detwiler will head to Triple-A Nashville, tweets Ryan Lewis of Ohio.com.

Seems like a prelude to trading one of their lefty relievers.

 

[DJMoore_is_fat]

Anyone know when Happ will be MLB ready? He's Zorilla's replacement, right?

 

[beckdawg]

Anyone know when Happ will be MLB ready? He's Zorilla's replacement, right?

Not necessarily. Torres also could in theory move over to 2B. As for ETA, you're probably talking 2-3 years at the earliest and that's if he doesn't A) get hurt or B) stumble at a level.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Not necessarily. Torres also could in theory move over to 2B. As for ETA, you're probably talking 2-3 years at the earliest and that's if he doesn't A) get hurt or B) stumble at a level.

That's probably Torres timeline, Happ could actually see AAA as early as this year. Some teams could be playing him in MLB next year if he were to go in trade, likely not the Cubs though. He was a very advanced hitter coming out of college.

 

[beckdawg]

That's probably Torres timeline, Happ could actually see AAA as early as this year. Some teams could be playing him in MLB next year if he were to go in trade, likely not the Cubs though. He was a very advanced hitter coming out of college.

I doubt that. He's taken 91 PAs in AA. Iowa's last game is August 5th and including today they only have 48 games left. The cubs generally want at least 300 PAs at a level. So to get that he'd need another 209 at let's say 4 a game that's 52 more games. Now I don't know where they stand in terms of AAA playoffs and that would be after Tenn's season ends. So maybe they would call him up for that just to get in more work. Either way, I have a strong suspicion they will start him in AA next year and follow a similar timeline to promotion that they did this year. Plus, he's not yet killing AA. He's playing well but .333/.363/.476 isn't screaming "promote me now." His walk rate could really use some improvement back to what it was at lower levels.

Could he follow that timeline you're suggesting? Possibly but I think the better question is always "should they?" Slow rolling players doesn't hurt them and often times players getting called up too soon can. I do agree Torres is probably on a similar timeline though plus say half a year or so. But I feel like people just assume every prospect will breeze through AA and AAA because that's what most of the cubs hitters have done lately. Maybe Happ will hitting wise but there's also the consideration of his defense at a relatively new 2B and given the state of the parent club there's no need to rush.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Again, for the Cubs I don't disagree but there would be teams that would install Happ on an MLB roster tomorrow. You're likely right on AAA though although I would expect him to start the year there in 2017 if he's still a Cub.

 

[beckdawg]

Again, for the Cubs I don't disagree but there would be teams that would install Happ on an MLB roster tomorrow. You're likely right on AAA though although I would expect him to start the year there in 2017 if he's still a Cub.

I agree with you that some teams would. I just think the cubs are going to slow roll him because they can. Unless he's in the starting line up do to an injury there's really no reason for him to be on the MLB team next year. So, let him work on his defense and if he gets to the point where you literally can't hold his bat back anymore then promote him to AAA.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

I agree with you that some teams would. I just think the cubs are going to slow roll him because they can. Unless he's in the starting line up do to an injury there's really no reason for him to be on the MLB team next year. So, let him work on his defense and if he gets to the point where you literally can't hold his bat back anymore then promote him to AAA.

Again, I agree. I just have a suspicion that he'll be playing for someone else.

 

[chibears55]

Why do people think the cubs can afford both? Beltran is making $15 mil this year and Chapman is making $11.325 mil. And more to the point, where are you even going to play Beltran? You don't trade for him to sit the bench. That means you have to start him and Heyward in the corners and assuming Fowler returns quickly him in CF. That means Baez isn't going to see much if any playing time because Bryant has to start at 3B. And that's also to say nothing of playing Soler.

I'd like for it to happen but doubt theyd look to get Beltran..
But if They did
They would only be paying 2 months of the 15 and 11 mil

Their playing Beltran in LF

Baez returns to bench and becomes what he would of been had Schwarber not gotten hurt, the multi position player who gives regulars says off.

Soler if not traded, becomes a bench guy


If the Cubs got Beltran, their a much better offense with him then without for the playoffs when their facing teams 1s and 2s

Sent from my LG-V495 using Tapatalk

 

[beckdawg]

Again, I agree. I just have a suspicion that he'll be playing for someone else.

Probably a good guess honestly. People seem to view him more as the Zobrist long term replacement. I view Torres/Baez in that light personally. He's old enough and good enough of a hitter to be dealt soon.

 

[TL1961]

Anyone know when Happ will be MLB ready? He's Zorilla's replacement, right?

No rush. He sits behind Baez someday.

 

[TL1961]

Probably a good guess honestly. People seem to view him more as the Zobrist long term replacement. I view Torres/Baez in that light personally. He's old enough and good enough of a hitter to be dealt soon.

Agreed

 

[CSF77]

There is a good chance Happ would be traded but here is why I wouldn't:

If they stay in house and let Almora start in CF. This removes Fowler and puts Zorbrist in as the lead off.

So:
Zobrist, Bryant, Rizzo, Contraras, Schwarber, Russell, Heyward, Almora, Pitcher. That would be a typical line up then. Zo is 35 an aging lead off. Baez has not proven to be a strong proto type here. So I do not see this as a realistic long term option going forward.

Happ is in AA. Next year most likely he will follow the blue print and get some MLB time in mid season like the rest. So he will become the back up lead off at that point. That is what I expect. They basically do nothing.

Now if they do deal any one it would be because they extended Fowler. That puts the rest into expendable mode.

I do not see this happening just due to the cost of retention and keeping the staff together. Trading cheap quality hitting lessens the ability to absorb contract.

They could easily just do nothing. If Happ evolves into a lead off type and Almora keeps about the same. They could move him back to CF and move Zorbrist back into the middle of the order later year. Which could very well happen.

So I wouldn't trade Happ at all. More loss than gain. Unless the plan is to resign Fowler and then pile up blue chips for a young ace so they can avoid paying Arrieta.

 

[beckdawg]

Stuff about lead off hitter

Torres is maybe half a year behind Happ in terms of development and he's just as qualified to be a lead off hitter eventually as Happ is. He stole 22 bases last year and 9.8% walk rate which in theory is lower than it would actually be if he were age appropriate for leagues similar to Happ. On his career he's a .282/.355/.401 hitter. Happ on his career is .285/.380/.471. So sure, thus far Happ's shown to be a better hitter but he's also 21 to Torres' 19. On top of matters, Torres also would be a better 2B candidate defensively.

That's not a shot at Happ at all because he's obviously a quality prospect. But he's going to be 22 next year and likely in AAA. Even if you wait the full 2 years like I suggested and make him 23 where's he playing? Heyward may or may not stick around. Almora is probably in CF. Schwarber is probably in LF. Bryant's at 3B so unless you're planning on dealing Baez he's going to see more time at 2B than a rookie Happ and you're not just going to burn service time sitting him on the bench. And obviously Zobrist is likely to still be around.

On the contrary, you're not in anywhere near as much of a hurry with Torres. There's a good chance next year at 20 he could struggle in AA because let's be realistic, how many 20 year olds hit well in in AA or for that matter, how many are even in AA at 20? The average age of the southern league is 24 for batters right now. Almora hit .234/.250/.355 at age 20 in AA. Baez obviously hit much better at .294/.346/.638 but you began to see his k rate issues rise and obviously he was more of a bat first guy than Almora. Russell hit decently at .294/.332/.536 but his walk rate really suffered at 4.4% compared to the player he is. Looking it up in 2016 right now there are 3 sub 21 year olds(Ozzie Albies, Willy Adames, and Jake Bauers). Last year there were 3 also(Bauers, McKinney and Olando Arcia). 2014 there were 4(Russell, Ketel Marte, Jose Peraza and Corey Seager). 2013 there were 3(Baez, Ronald Torreyes and Yorman Rodriguez). And in 2012 there were 2(Chris Owings and Christian Bethancourt).

Since Torres is so young and playing so well you can give him the time they didn't quite see fit to with Russell. Russell is obviously a stud defensively but it's pretty obvious another year or so in AAA wouldn't have hurt him. They called him up early because Alcantara wasn't getting the job done and there really wasn't a lot of options. In the case of Torres, even if Zobrist suddenly turns to shit next year, you still have Baez. Even if you give him a full 3 more years in the minors he's only 22. 3 more years in the minors for Happ makes him 24 which is basically the cut off range of being a prospect.