Training Camp Thread

[Ton]

Ladd is a nice LW to have, but geez who's selling the farm to get him? That might be something to offer up for E. Kane -- and even then I think it's too much.



As far as Schenn, I couldn't give two shits where he was drafted or how much he scores (and 14 goals in 300+ games is hardly enough to matter) -- if that mattered Cam Barker would be a hot commodity. He is a physical player, and that is a plus... but he's a terrible defender. He's 23 years old and Hjalmarsson is 25... not really a big difference. I think he has upside, sure... but when it comes to building a better defense I'm taking Hjalmarsson over Schenn. Yes, the Maple Leafs rushed him, and yeah he could improve. My point had nothing to do with that anyway, the point is this organization continues to shove players in slots that they can't handle. If they want a power-forward for the top two lines go get one.

 

[Ton]

With Montador out/done....it may not be wise to trade either Hjarll/Leddy this season. Depth is going to be so important...and the "7" now - all will probably be needed.



Whats the scoup on Stanton? Can he play? Is he better/different than Olsen?

I like Stanton, probably the most consistent defenseman on Rockford this season. Good defensively, physical, leader, etc.. etc.. lots of intangibles.

 

[PatrickShart]

Will it/he translate to the NHL? Or is he one of those 4A players...(good in minors...but a step behind in the pro's)?

 

[winos5]

Stanton analysis



Hockey's future



Hockey news



hockeydb

 

[Ton]

I don't think he'll ever be a top-four defenseman... but I think he can handle a 5/6/7 role. But for this year, I think he'll be sent back down and if there are any injuries he will be the first one called up.

 

[PatrickShart]

None of that read....sounds very impressive...

 

[Ton]

None of that read....sounds very impressive...

That's because he's not very impressive if you just look at pure talent/finesse. He's a physical defenseman with no offensive flair, but he gets the job done, can clear the crease, clear the puck, makes safe plays, sticks up for teammates, works hard... etc.. etc.. That may not be "impressive" but it's necessary to have guys like that.

 

[bookjones]

Ladd is a nice LW to have, but geez who's selling the farm to get him? That might be something to offer up for E. Kane -- and even then I think it's too much.



As far as Schenn, I couldn't give two shits where he was drafted or how much he scores (and 14 goals in 300+ games is hardly enough to matter) -- if that mattered Cam Barker would be a hot commodity. He is a physical player, and that is a plus... but he's a terrible defender. He's 23 years old and Hjalmarsson is 25... not really a big difference. I think he has upside, sure... but when it comes to building a better defense I'm taking Hjalmarsson over Schenn. Yes, the Maple Leafs rushed him, and yeah he could improve. My point had nothing to do with that anyway, the point is this organization continues to shove players in slots that they can't handle. If they want a power-forward for the top two lines go get one.

Well then we'll just have to agree to disagree re Hjalmarsson. I'd take Schenn in hot second over him esp. for the same $3.5 mil price tag. I think Hjarlmarsson's game has noticeably regressed. If he still played like he did the Cup year OR had even better and as expected improved upon that then I'd have no problems with him. I think he makes some very, very weak decisions with the puck and rushes/panicks too often. But he's also he's not physical. Blocks shots very well for sure but not at any clip substantially greater than say Schenn, LOL. Has he been an abomination? No. I also don't think his price is bad at face value but I don't like it for primarily shot blocking. Anyhoo, for me the best Dman on the team the past several seasons, most consistent and the one you build everything around IMO is The Biscuit and he's been good so that's my Hawks defensive corps "happy place".

 

[bookjones]

SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH don't jinx it... now that hockey is back they can easily move him back.

Nah. I think we're safe. In both cases they made it pretty clear it was for permanent for the foreseeable future and in Jahns' case he even alerted people to the Twitter feed of his Sun-Times Hawks beat replacement. Scott Powers has taken over doing the Hawks blog posts on the ESPNChicago website while some anonymous person is technically doing the ESPNChicago Hawks Twitter feed but I'll assume it's really Powers.

 

[PatrickShart]

Not impressive in the sense of him sounding like an average AHL Dman...where he doesn't do one thing exceptionally well. While it's great to stand in front of your net and "clear the crease" and work hard, he's got to be able to get up/down the ice, into corners/be strong enough to win battles vs NHL players...and not clear the puck but to hit his outlets.



And bookie...I agree..I think Hjarll makes some very poor decisions/panics at times with the puck and just clears it instead of passing...and he's stopped/never taken a more aggressive approach consistantly physically. At this point, he's a 3.5mil Sopel.

 

[Ton]

Well then we'll just have to agree to disagree re Hjalmarsson. I'd take Schenn in hot second over him esp. for the same $3.5 mil price tag. I think Hjarlmarsson's game has noticeably regressed. If he still played like he did the Cup year OR had even better and as expected improved upon that then I'd have no problems with him. I think he makes some very, very weak decisions with the puck and rushes/panicks too often. But he's also he's not physical. Blocks shots very well for sure but not at any clip substantially greater than say Schenn, LOL. Has he been an abomination? No. I also don't think his price is bad at face value but I don't like it for primarily shot blocking. Anyhoo, for me the best Dman on the team the past several seasons, most consistent and the one you build everything around IMO is The Biscuit.

I agree on Seabrook, but I disagree that Hjalmarsson has regressed. I just think he hasn't improved -- not necessarily regressing but his development has been stagnant -- which to me is OK because I thought he was a good player to begin with. Yeah he doesn't hit a lot (never really did) but he is still a physical player in areas that don't show up on the score sheet (you don't get credited for a hit when you are battling someone in front of the net or along the boards) and I think he is overall just a good defender. He will never be a big hitter because his style is to play the angle and rely on positioning. Won't wow you but he quietly gets the job done (combined plus-22 in 2010-11 and 2011-12). I don't think his contract is all that bad anymore, and while I do wish he put up a few more points I also don't think that's a deal breaker because he seems to be pretty comfortable playing the role of defensive defenseman. All-in-all, Hammer isn't the perfect defenseman but he is definitely worth a top-four roster spot on any team in this league.

 

[TSD]

From what I remember Carcillo was a bad penalty magnet as well last year. Wasnt he suspended for the play he got injured on, on top of it?

 

[bookjones]

I agree on Seabrook, but I disagree that Hjalmarsson has regressed. I just think he hasn't improved -- not necessarily regressing but his development has been stagnant -- which to me is OK because I thought he was a good player to begin with. Yeah he doesn't hit a lot (never really did) but he is still a physical player in areas that don't show up on the score sheet (you don't get credited for a hit when you are battling someone in front of the net or along the boards) and I think he is overall just a good defender. Won't wow you but he quietly gets the job done (combined plus-22 in 2010-11 and 2011-12). I don't think his contract is all that bad anymore, and while I do wish he put up a few more points I also don't think that's a deal breaker because he seems to be pretty comfortable playing the role of defensive defenseman. All-in-all, Hammer isn't the perfect defenseman but he is definitely worth a top-four roster spot on any team in this league.

I haven't disagreed with any of this. I only went on the Schenn tangent because you used JVR as a trade example and I was stating why I think that was a solid talent-for-talent trade for both TOR and PHI and because I don't think Hjalmarsson would have gotten the Hawks JVR. I wouldn't say Hjalmarsson is "talented" per se but like I said he's not been an abomination and he's solidly serviceable as an NHL dman and has trade value as a result. You don't see me expending a lot of energy railing on the guy because he is what he is and it's basically okay and the team has larger issues than him re why they under-perform IMO. For me personally, he's been disappointing because I had more expectations of development for him post-Cup. I don't think there are aspects he does as well as he did he Cup season and that's why I chose "regressed" but eh, you're right that's debatable and could just as easily be called what you said which is his game's grown stagnant. I don't like that it's happened though.

 

[Ton]

I haven't disagreed with any of this. I only went on the Schenn tangent because you used JVR as a trade example and I was stating why I think that was a solid talent-for-talent trade for both TOR and PHI and because I don't think Hjalmarsson would have gotten the Hawks JVR. I wouldn't say Hjalmarsson is "talented" per se but like I said he's not been an abomination and he's solidly serviceable as an NHL dman and has trade value as a result. You don't see me expending a lot of energy railing on the guy because he is what he is and it's basically okay and the team has larger issues than him re why they under-perform IMO. For me personally, he's been disappointing because I had more expectations of development for him post-Cup. I don't think there are aspects he does as well as he did he Cup season and that's why I chose "regressed" but eh, you're right that's debatable and could just as easily be called what you said which is his game's grown stagnant. I don't like that it's happened though.

Whether or not he would fetch JVR, I don't know... no one knows. I agree pretty much with the rest of your entire post. I thought Hjalmarsson would get better too -- obviously so did the Hawks since they let Niemi walk for him. But then again, he is only 25, which soon he should be entering the prime of his career so we will see.

 

[supraman]

From what I remember Carcillo was a bad penalty magnet as well last year. Wasnt he suspended for the play he got injured on, on top of it?

yes he was. Carcillo struggles to contribute from the press box.

 

[TSD]

yes he was. Carcillo struggles to contribute from the press box.

I remember grimson being all "in your face" if carcillo would score, but its like, the asshole just cost us 2 goals so, so what?

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

I remember grimson being all "in your face" if carcillo would score, but its like, the asshole just cost us 2 goals so, so what?

I did the same thing every time John Scott scored too!!!! Oh wait.......

 

[Ton]

I did the same thing every time John Scott scored too!!!! Oh wait.......

His penis in your mouth isn't the type of scoring we are talking about.

 

[bookjones]

RIMSHOT!

 

[Pez68]

Ladd is a nice LW to have, but geez who's selling the farm to get him? That might be something to offer up for E. Kane -- and even then I think it's too much.



As far as Schenn, I couldn't give two shits where he was drafted or how much he scores (and 14 goals in 300+ games is hardly enough to matter) -- if that mattered Cam Barker would be a hot commodity. He is a physical player, and that is a plus... but he's a terrible defender. He's 23 years old and Hjalmarsson is 25... not really a big difference. I think he has upside, sure... but when it comes to building a better defense I'm taking Hjalmarsson over Schenn. Yes, the Maple Leafs rushed him, and yeah he could improve. My point had nothing to do with that anyway, the point is this organization continues to shove players in slots that they can't handle. If they want a power-forward for the top two lines go get one.

No offense, but top six power forwards don't exactly grow on trees. Not to mention the fact that every other team in the NHL is looking for the same thing.