Updates to the Kane situation

[ClydeLee]

From the teams perspective & even the league, they hold onto that high moral ground standing even though it's dishonest. So they do hold to guys just getting drunk & putting himself in a risky situation on him. That's what public image and personal conduct policies are embedded with in professional sports. They can punish these guys merely for the perception, illusion, or happenstance of something going wrong in relative proximity to them even if they're completely innocent of any action.

You can talk about it and say it's wrong... but the idea is here, can it be done? Yes as it happens across sports leagues in NA plenty of times. It's not some "modern society" thing this is actually more ancient of a form of punishment than modern. This is what happens when you allow sports leagues & their ownership groups to have such immense power over their athletes.

 

[DMelt36]

Regarding the "optics" of it, Joker:

I'd be more willing to accept your viewpoints if this was Kane's first incident. But because he's had multiple transgressions in his past, that changes things exponentially.

 

[PatrickShart]

What were his other "transgressions"? Being at a party in the off-season in Wisconsin? The cab incident was way over blown. The limo incident? Well a "veteran" married person in Maddon was in that limo too.

All of these things are done by players every single day.

Its actually better to have Kane go to camp, get all this circus out of the way in September when there hasn't been a game played - and wont be for a few weeks....then to bring him on in November or something...then deal with this again in a few months.

Fact is, he isn't charged with anything wrong. Too many times a guy can get accused of something and get his name dragged through the mud by the morality police, to find out nothing happened. If he isn't charged, convicted and sentenced....then he should be at camp and training with his team and allowed to make a living.

If/when nothing is charged, the damage TO him is already done by the media and holy rollers

 

[Joker85]

Regarding the "optics" of it, Joker:

I'd be more willing to accept your viewpoints if this was Kane's first incident. But because he's had multiple transgressions in his past, that changes things exponentially.

I can understand that if there was some 3rd way middle ground. Let's say he got into an argument with someone while drunk and that escalated into a shoving match, then the guy claimed Kane assaulted him or something. You can say given his past, he has no business getting into arguments with people and letting it get physical. This is different though because people are saying the very fact of him going to a bar or having sex somehow means he "put himself in a bad situation". He has been a model citizen for years now since his final warning from the brass. And unless a part of that warning was "you are never to go to a bar or have sex again or youre gone", they can't then hop on those two behaviors as somehow the latest in a long string of missteps from him.

I definitely get your point that his margin of error for acting a fool in public and embarrassing the hawks was long used up. But in the specifics of this case, no one has presented any evidence that he did ANYTHING whatsoever to legitimately embarrass them. Just some vague how put himself in that situation stuff that falls apart under scrutiny. Kane has been spotted around bars for years, yet not one single person said wow I don't think Kane should ever go to a bar again before this. So it can't be that. Certainly I hope people are not demanding celibacy from him. So even given his past, what specifically about the facts that we currently have access to has Kane done to embarrass the blackhawks? If he is innocent then he is the victim here and blaming him for being the victim of a crime is ridiculous.

Or let me put it another way. Let's assume 1 week before this incident he met a different girl at a bar, took her home, and nothing came of it. In that scenario was he also "embarrassing" the blackhawks? I don't see how. It just seems arbitrary and completely outcome based to me. Because he was accused of something, it doesn't matter whether he did it or not, it's his fault for being accused. Which makes no sense to me.

 

[DMelt36]

What were his other "transgressions"? Being at a party in the off-season in Wisconsin? The cab incident was way over blown. The limo incident? Well a "veteran" married person in Maddon was in that limo too.

All of these things are done by players every single day.

Its actually better to have Kane go to camp, get all this circus out of the way in September when there hasn't been a game played - and wont be for a few weeks....then to bring him on in November or something...then deal with this again in a few months.

Fact is, he isn't charged with anything wrong. Too many times a guy can get accused of something and get his name dragged through the mud by the morality police, to find out nothing happened. If he isn't charged, convicted and sentenced....then he should be at camp and training with his team and allowed to make a living.

If/when nothing is charged, the damage TO him is already done by the media and holy rollers

Too many times? When? Where?

 

[PatrickShart]

What did he so wrong in the limo? And what did he do wrong in Wisconsin?

 

[Raskolnikov]

Guilt or innocence only applies in a court of law, and this is not a court of law.

Like I said earlier, it's all about the optics of this and the PR angle of it. Having a player in training camp that is currently being investigated for a rape just doesn't look good. And considering how much the Hawks talk about their image, I didn't think they'd risk that look, but it appears as if I'm going to be wrong on that.

Look at it from the other side: what if Kane is later charged and convicted with rape? How bad would that look?

Still think the Hawks FO must know something about the case that we don't, which is why they're allowing Kane to show up tomorrow. Should be an interesting press conference tomorrow.

If they don't stand by him, and he is innocent, then they are smearing themselves for no reason with their doubt. If he is guilty....ITS ALREADY A BAD LOOK!! he is 1/2 the face of the franchise, and to many casual fans from other markets may be the player they associate most with the Hawks cuz of highlights. There is no escape if it goes south, so nothing more to lose.

You have to put on your poker face and push forward with your fingers crossed.

they are not happy about it, obviously, who would be? But they stand by the guy until they can't, its the right thing to do.

 

[ClydeLee]

Or let me put it another way. Let's assume 1 week before this incident he met a different girl at a bar, took her home, and nothing came of it. In that scenario was he also "embarrassing" the blackhawks? I don't see how. It just seems arbitrary and completely outcome based to me. Because he was accused of something, it doesn't matter whether he did it or not, it's his fault for being accused. Which makes no sense to me.

That's simply professional sports. It's the same way they punish illegal hits and on ice discipline. The NHL especially is bad at it, their system of punishment is outcome based and not action based in contrast to any sensible data or system that would show results. They go contrary to effectiveness and just punish what is visible.

It's the same type of issue that somehow knowing Ray Rice knocked out his wife in an elevator was deserving of one judgement but viewing it was somehow different, despite it looking exactly like expected, a man knocking out a woman. Punishment is based purely on outcome and social reaction over anything within the incident.

 

[winos5]

"Mark LazerusVerified account ‏@MarkLazerus 14m14 minutes ago
Patrick Kane's agent, Pat Brisson, declines to comment on the situation, saying only that it will be explained tomorrow. So, uh, stay tuned."

 

[DrGonzo]

Media reporting Kane will be in camp, with the grand jury taking until the end of the month to charge him or not. That'll be comfortable for everyone.

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/eye-on...e-expected-to-attend-blackhawks-training-camp

 

[Ares]

I wonder if Buffalo will riot if/when the Grand Jury decides not to charge Kane?

 

[LordKOTL]

What did he so wrong in the limo? And what did he do wrong in Wisconsin?

Exactly. Seems to me the only one who did "wrong" in that situation was John Madden, and something tells me that was solved by his wife driving a forklift up his ass.

But a young *single* 20-something hockey player going shirtless in a canadian limo with a bunch of Meh. women? IMHO anyone who expresses outrage against that is just jealous because they never had nor will ever have the opportunity to do so.

I wonder if Buffalo will riot if/when the Grand Jury decides not to charge Kane?

Am I wrong for hoping it does?

 

[Ares]

Am I wrong for hoping it does?

No... we all like crazy TV

 

[Tater]

No... we all like crazy TV

And injuries!

 

[CRM 114]

I wonder if Buffalo will riot if/when the Grand Jury decides not to charge Kane?

I don't see it happening. They're not Vancouver.

 

[Ares]

I don't see it happening. They're not Vancouver.

You're too young to know what is coming.... you will see.... were you alive for Ferguson?

 

[TCD]

"Absolved of having done nothing wrong"

Well said Kane...well said.

This guys entertaining as ****

 

[DMelt36]

That press conference was so, so bad.

 

[TCD]

That press conference was so, so bad.

Was a poor move by the Hawks to put him out there. For one he isn't allowed to say anything at the moment and what he did say made him look like an absolute idiot.

Waste of time that made him look worse in the public eye. So dumb im embarrassed by and for the org.

 

[CRM 114]

You all really think I'm under 18? How Hilarious! And you all claim to be so smart, too.

Amazing how you can make assumptions about someone you have never met.