We Should Have Tanked

[The Hawk]

That's easy....... Respect and Pride. That's enough. You talk about tanking like it is acceptable. It isn't. From the day most of us grabbed a baseball, basketball, football, or hockey stick. good coaches have taught us how to play the game correctly and hopefully sportsmanship along the way. Tanking is for some other country, not the US.

This is not much different than those who are able bodied yet decide to have other pay for their upkeep. It really is an attitude of why try when someone
will give us shit. Lets lay down and enjoy it, eh? It sickens me this attitude.

 

[The Hawk]

I'm going to laugh my ass off when we don't sign Melo or Love, Mirotic doesn't come over, Glassman gets injured again, and Butler just drops dead from exhaustion.


Welcome to Basketball Hell, population: Bulls

Wow. So you are hoping that what you say is your team fails???????? what a true fan you are

 

[ChiSoxCity]

Wow. So you are hoping that what you say is your team fails???????? what a true fan you are

A chance at attaining a lottery pick for the future provides more hope than this current roster can provide. Only stupid people who lack common sense think the Bulls can win with this roster.

 

[BIGGIEsmalls 23]

This is not much different than those who are able bodied yet decide to have other pay for their upkeep. It really is an attitude of why try when someone will give us shit. Lets lay down and enjoy it, eh? It sickens me this attitude.

Can you please leave your political agenda out of every basketball thread?

CCS has a political forum for these discussions.

 

[The Hawk]

Can you please leave your political agenda out of every basketball thread?

CCS has a political forum for these discussions.

It was an analogy. And if I wanted to discuss politics I would have picked somewhere else to go. The fact that it bothered you is your own problem not
mine.

 

[ChiSoxCity]

It was an analogy. And if I wanted to discuss politics I would have picked somewhere else to go. The fact that it bothered you is your own problem not
mine.

Yeah... see, the thing is there are a few intelligent people on this board who know exactly what you're trying to say. Teams get dismantled and tank all the time because they know change is needed. They make a "choice," unlike many people on welfare who can't find work that pays a living wage. But what would you know about that, right?

 

[The Hawk]

Yeah... see, the thing is there are a few intelligent people on this board who know exactly what you're trying to say. Teams get dismantled and tank all the time because they know change is needed. They make a "choice," unlike many people on welfare who can't find work that pays a living wage. But what would you know about that, right?

So..... you justify losing on purpose to gain an advantage. So you pay people to lose. Anyone that does that is a big fucking cheater and should be banned
from the game for life. Do you think that they let the book-makers in on it?

Not much difference from paying people not to work and/or pay taxes. Heaven forbid that they work hard to advance themselves. Heaven
forbid that they go to school and get an education. Hell no. Lets other people's tax dollars pay for them to lay at home. Let someone else work their asses off in order to provide them everything.

Going back to basketball since we are not supposed to talk about politics here, if I were the the King of the NBA, I'd make it pretty impossible to tank
a season, as in re-doing the draft order for teams that do. If the Commissioner and the owners have so much power that they can oust an owner
based on a secret tape recording, then they also could punish a franchise that tanks a season. Hell, they banished Pete Rose for betting on his own team
to win in baseball. It seems only fair to punish cheating owners.
livelihood. To me, if that is intentional, like you say that big money executives do it on purpose, then by all means everyone should stop working until big
government intervenes and takes over everything. Hello Chairman Mao and Mr. Stalin.

 

[The Hawk]

A chance at attaining a lottery pick for the future provides more hope than this current roster can provide. Only stupid people who lack common sense think the Bulls can win with this roster.

That is it........ tank the season and win a lottery pick. Jeepers, someone call Reinsdorf and recommend you as his GM. What great insight you have
in the game and how it should be played

 

[houheffna]

It was an analogy. And if I wanted to discuss politics I would have picked somewhere else to go. The fact that it bothered you is your own problem not
mine.

That was a very bad analogy. And yeah, it was political. Your hatred for government entitlement programs is not at all analogous to the NBA Draft and trying to stockpile talent to win a championship.

 

[BIGGIEsmalls 23]

That is it........ tank the season and win a lottery pick. Jeepers, someone call Reinsdorf and recommend you as his GM. What great insight you have in the game and how it should be played

Well, they didn't tank and win a lottery pick with a 1.7% chance. They did it your way with hardhat lunch pail guys. The "play hard til the whistle" attitude put us out of lottery contention & got us a quick 1st round playoff defeat against the MIGHTY MIGHTY Washington Wizards.

Now, what does the team have to show for it?

 

[The Hawk]

That was a very bad analogy. And yeah, it was political. Your hatred for government entitlement programs is not at all analogous to the NBA Draft and trying to stockpile talent to win a championship.

I do not "hate" government entitlement programs" at all. Those who need help to live that is merited should get good help. A lot of these programs are very well intentioned. What I am against is how bad they are administered. Hell, I am a disabled veteran and receive VA help with the stuff I suffer from. But when I
see what is now going on within the Veteran's Administration I want to cry. There are a shit-load of combat guys who are worse than I am who are
being outright ignored because some fucking administrator wants a big bonus and fakes the numbers. These bastards need to be thrown in jail
with the rest of the low-lifes in society.

As for my analogy, maybe it was a poor one but the way that I was raised and how I was coached and how I was taught about having a good
career is a pretty basic tenet of working hard, be a good team-mate, and drive to be the winner in every contest that you enter into. TANKING to me is
against every thing that I ever have been taught. It disgusts me and those who condone it or do it themselves are in every sense a big time
LOSER.

This shit is all over government agencies. The fox so to speak is guarding the hen-house.

 

[The Hawk]

Well, they didn't tank and win a lottery pick with a 1.7% chance. They did it your way with hardhat lunch pail guys. The "play hard til the whistle" attitude put us out of lottery contention & got us a quick 1st round playoff defeat against the MIGHTY MIGHTY Washington Wizards.

Now, what does the team have to show for it?

Okay. For starters, it shows personal pride in doing all that you can to over-come adversity. Ask the players what they had to show for it. Ask Thibs.
Do you not see the obvious? As for Bulls management, I said what I felt were their short-comings. Hell, I gave them a C+ B- for what they have done
in the last few years. But it has not been all bad. And giving up and letting other team's win is not the answer to building a championship team.
And....please do not insult my intelligence to suggest that tanking would have given us a number 1-3 draft pick. That is not a plan of action, it is a fantasy
world.

 

[BIGGIEsmalls 23]

Well, they didn't tank and win a lottery pick with a 1.7% chance. They did it your way with hardhat lunch pail guys. The "play hard til the whistle" attitude put us out of lottery contention & got us a quick 1st round playoff defeat against the MIGHTY MIGHTY Washington Wizards.

Now, what does the team have to show for it?

Okay. For starters, it shows personal pride in doing all that you can to over-come adversity. Ask the players what they had to show for it. Ask Thibs.

I'd take a better chance at a championship ring next season & beyond over personal pride this season. I want another Grant Park parade. Anything else is bullshit.

Do you not see the obvious? As for Bulls management, I said what I felt were their short-comings. Hell, I gave them a C+ B- for what they have done
in the last few years. But it has not been all bad.

Our best chance to overcome Miami was during their first season together. Unfortunately, injuries & the lack of a 2nd superstar derailed our chances. Even after seeing our obvious flaws, our FO still went into the following season without a #2 star and we kept the same incompetent training staff. Derrick's injuries to his knees two seasons in a row destroyed any slight chance of winning, which gave our FO the rare opportunity to capitalize with a young stud via the draft. They dropped the ball.

And giving up and letting other team's win is not the answer to building a championship team.

We weren't winning a damn championship this season regardless.

And....please do not insult my intelligence to suggest that tanking would have given us a number 1-3 draft pick. That is not a plan of action, it is a fantasy
world.

A 1.7% chance gift-wrapped Derrick Rose to us several years ago & just last week a 1.7% chance gift-wrapped the #1 overall pick to Cleveland.

Maybe, you're the one living in a fantasy world.

 

[2323]

A chance at attaining a lottery pick for the future provides more hope than this current roster can provide. Only stupid people who lack common sense think the Bulls can win with this roster.

How intelligent do you need to be to recognize that tanking wouldn't necessarily guarantee anything worthwhile? Even if the Bulls would have tanked, it would have been extremely difficult to lose enough to matter.

 

[ChiSoxCity]

I do not "hate" government entitlement programs" at all. Those who need help to live that is merited should get good help. A lot of these programs are very well intentioned. What I am against is how bad they are administered. Hell, I am a disabled veteran and receive VA help with the stuff I suffer from. But when I
see what is now going on within the Veteran's Administration I want to cry. There are a shit-load of combat guys who are worse than I am who are
being outright ignored because some fucking administrator wants a big bonus and fakes the numbers. These bastards need to be thrown in jail
with the rest of the low-lifes in society.

As for my analogy, maybe it was a poor one but the way that I was raised and how I was coached and how I was taught about having a good
career is a pretty basic tenet of working hard, be a good team-mate, and drive to be the winner in every contest that you enter into. TANKING to me is
against every thing that I ever have been taught. It disgusts me and those who condone it or do it themselves are in every sense a big time
LOSER.

This shit is all over government agencies. The fox so to speak is guarding the hen-house.

I'm a disabled Vet too, so we have that in common.

The shit that goes on in government and society (laziness, seflishness, lack of integrity) disgusts me too.

However, what I have come to understand is that people, governments, societies, businesses, teams, etc., seldom measure up to my own high expectations. So I have learned to keep things in perspective and deal with things as they are. In an ideal world, everyone has equal opportunity if they just put forth a "little effort." But the reality is, the odds are stacked against some people for various reasons. Single mothers, the elderly, lower income people who lack suitable employment or job skills, etc. Marginalizing people because of their socioeconomic condition or educational background is unethical and un-American.

In regards to the Bulls, they're currently built to "win now" with a roster full of specialist and supporting players. MVP or not, it's simply unrealistic to expect him [Rose] to carry this offensively challenged team by himself.

How many years of finishing last out of 30 teams in scoring with a top 5 payroll will it take before you accept that a rebuild is needed? Look at the teams left in the playoffs right now. They're all among the best offensive teams in the NBA. The writing is on the wall. Should we just give up? No. But standing still with what we have should not be an option at this point.

 

[2323]

I'm a disabled Vet too, so we have that in common.

The shit that goes on in government and society (laziness, seflishness, lack of integrity) disgusts me too.

However, what I have come to understand is that people, governments, societies, businesses, teams, etc., seldom measure up to my own high expectations. So I have learned to keep things in perspective and deal with things as they are. In an ideal world, everyone has equal opportunity if they just put forth a "little effort." But the reality is, the odds are stacked against some people for various reasons. Single mothers, the elderly, lower income people who lack suitable employment or job skills, etc. Marginalizing people because of their socioeconomic condition or educational background is unethical and un-American.

In regards to the Bulls, they're currently built to "win now" with a roster full of specialist and supporting players. MVP or not, it's simply unrealistic to expect him to carry this offensively challenged team by himself.

How many years of finishing last out of 30 teams in scoring with a top 5 payroll will it take before you accept that a rebuild is needed? Look at the teams left in the playoffs right now. They're all among the best offensive teams in the NBA. The writing is on the wall. Should we just give up? No. But standing still with what we have should not be an option at this point.

While Thibs' stubbornness is one of his greatest assets, it's also one of his greatest flaws. The fear is that the Bulls part ways with Thibs before he finally develops a greater appreciation for offense, while relenting on defense (and other things, eg minutes). The fear is that Thibs leaves Chicago and becomes a balanced coach and less of a coach who has a hyper focus on defense.

But you have to be careful about throwing the baby out with the bath water. The Bulls have a lot of valuable pieces. To rebuild would typically require replacing those pieces in addition to hitting it in the lottery. People act like these pieces are complementary parts. If you're Miami and you have James/Wade/Bosh/Riley, who all colluded, you can afford to have this outlook. But, currently, without those types of players, you need the better complementary pieces. The setbacks with Rose have been a combination of stupidity and bad luck.

But no team is in a position to try to model itself after Miami because of who Miami has on it's roster.

The Lakers don't have a high enough pick to make it worth trading Thibs to them.

But this is all very complicated since Thibs might be a factor in luring Anthony. I don't think Anthony comes to Chicago but that would be better than giving a fortune in trade for Love. So various scenarios become tricky.

 

[ChiSoxCity]

While Thibs' stubbornness is one of his greatest assets, it's also one of his greatest flaws. The fear is that the Bulls part ways with Thibs before he finally develops a greater appreciation for offense, while relenting on defense (and other things, eg minutes). The fear is that Thibs leaves Chicago and becomes a balanced coach and less of a coach who has a hyper focus on defense.

But you have to be careful about throwing the baby out with the bath water. The Bulls have a lot of valuable pieces. To rebuild would typically require replacing those pieces in addition to hitting it in the lottery. People act like these pieces are complementary parts. If you're Miami and you have James/Wade/Bosh/Riley, who all colluded, you can afford to have this outlook. But, currently, without those types of players, you need the better complementary pieces. The setbacks with Rose have been a combination of stupidity and bad luck.

But no team is in a position to try to model itself after Miami because of who Miami has on it's roster.

The Lakers don't have a high enough pick to make it worth trading Thibs to them.

But this is all very complicated since Thibs might be a factor in luring Anthony. I don't think Anthony comes to Chicago but that would be better than giving a fortune in trade for Love. So various scenarios become tricky.

The Bulls "threw the baby out with the bath water" when they traded Deng. In regards to Thibs, I don't think his coaching style is the problem. Give him some athletic, offensively skilled players and Thibs can teach them how to play team defense. Conversely, no coach at the pro level is going to teach an offensively challenged guy how to create their own shot or hit jumpers in high pressure situations. That takes talent, and the Bulls don't have it.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

Thibs is VASTLY underrated in terms of offensive coaching. Yes, he is defensive minded, but so was Phil, so is Pop, so was Auerbach.


I'm not putting Thibs in the category with those 3, but even the best defensive minds can coach offense.

 

[The Hawk]

I'd take a better chance at a championship ring next season & beyond over personal pride this season. I want another Grant Park parade. Anything else is bullshit.


Our best chance to overcome Miami was during their first season together. Unfortunately, injuries & the lack of a 2nd superstar derailed our chances. Even after seeing our obvious flaws, our FO still went into the following season without a #2 star and we kept the same incompetent training staff. Derrick's injuries to his knees two seasons in a row destroyed any slight chance of winning, which gave our FO the rare opportunity to capitalize with a young stud via the draft. They dropped the ball.


We weren't winning a damn championship this season regardless.


A 1.7% chance gift-wrapped Derrick Rose to us several years ago & just last week a 1.7% chance gift-wrapped the #1 overall pick to Cleveland.

Maybe, you're the one living in a fantasy world.

Please do not go to a casino and bet against those odds. I can hear the conversation now from Reinsdorf: "Okay people, I want you to lose every game
that you can so that we can win a lottery pick. So, to insure that, I want you to trade Noah, Gibson, Butler, and Rose. Get whatever you can for them
because I want us to get talent in the lottery? That is what you are saying. Cleveland got handed a number one pick. Well............ they didn't tank the
season did they? So the teams that did did not get that pick did they? In the meantime, fans of those teams got to see terrible basketball thanks to
their management. Chicago deserves better than that philosophy.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

Never really thought I would pine for Jerry Krause.