We Should Have Tanked

[The Hawk]

I'm a disabled Vet too, so we have that in common.

The shit that goes on in government and society (laziness, seflishness, lack of integrity) disgusts me too.

However, what I have come to understand is that people, governments, societies, businesses, teams, etc., seldom measure up to my own high expectations. So I have learned to keep things in perspective and deal with things as they are. In an ideal world, everyone has equal opportunity if they just put forth a "little effort." But the reality is, the odds are stacked against some people for various reasons. Single mothers, the elderly, lower income people who lack suitable employment or job skills, etc. Marginalizing people because of their socioeconomic condition or educational background is unethical and un-American.

In regards to the Bulls, they're currently built to "win now" with a roster full of specialist and supporting players. MVP or not, it's simply unrealistic to expect him [Rose] to carry this offensively challenged team by himself.

How many years of finishing last out of 30 teams in scoring with a top 5 payroll will it take before you accept that a rebuild is needed? Look at the teams left in the playoffs right now. They're all among the best offensive teams in the NBA. The writing is on the wall. Should we just give up? No. But standing still with what we have should not be an option at this point.

I think that they are rebuilding right now. They traded Deng and his contract. They are going to either trade or amnesty Boozer are they not? Will they not
try to bring in Melo or another good free agent? Do they not have what would be a high lottery guy in Mirotic and two other good first round picks
in the first round this year and two next year also. What is that if not rebuilding? That is hardly standing still. It is moving forward with a good plan in mind.

 

[The Hawk]

The Bulls "threw the baby out with the bath water" when they traded Deng. In regards to Thibs, I don't think his coaching style is the problem. Give him some athletic, offensively skilled players and Thibs can teach them how to play team defense. Conversely, no coach at the pro level is going to teach an offensively challenged guy how to create their own shot or hit jumpers in high pressure situations. That takes talent, and the Bulls don't have it.

NO they didn't with Deng. They knew that they had to rebuild like some have said they haven't done. They had to free salary in order to make possible\
a good free agent. Without Rose, they knew that they had not a good chance of winning a championship so they traded Deng and surprise, their record
improved afterward. Now they will either trade or amnesty Boozer freeing up more money.

I think that those two moves were good ones. Whether it works or not is unknown. But whatever happens, the Bulls team next year will be much
better than the team that they had for the last two years. It will be exciting when the draft occurs and trades occur. I really am looking forward to it.

 

[BIGGIEsmalls 23]

Please do not go to a casino and bet against those odds.

What odds?

I can hear the conversation now from Reinsdorf: "Okay people, I want you to lose every game that you can so that we can win a lottery pick. So, to insure that, I want you to trade Noah, Gibson, Butler, and Rose. Get whatever you can for them because I want us to get talent in the lottery? That is what you are saying.

I never said that, nor did I ever imply that.

Making Noah have his (needed) surgery during the season, instead of after the season would have contributed to more losses. Giving major minutes to Teague, Snell, & whatever other rookies/castoff FA available would have contributed to more losses.

Cleveland got handed a number one pick. Well............ they didn't tank the season did they?

They were gift-wrapped Luol Deng to play alongside a talented young core, yet they were in the lottery. Sounds like a tank job to me.

So the teams that did did not get that pick did they? In the meantime, fans of those teams got to see terrible basketball thanks to their management.

Who cares. The UC would have still sold out this season.

Chicago deserves better than that philosophy.

Chicago deserves better than 1st round exits.

Chicago deserved a chance at drafting Wiggins or Parker to pair with Rose, Noah, Mirotic, Butler, & Taj next season. Our FO f'd it up.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

Teague was never going to be an option going forward.

 

[2323]

The Bulls "threw the baby out with the bath water" when they traded Deng. In regards to Thibs, I don't think his coaching style is the problem. Give him some athletic, offensively skilled players and Thibs can teach them how to play team defense. Conversely, no coach at the pro level is going to teach an offensively challenged guy how to create their own shot or hit jumpers in high pressure situations. That takes talent, and the Bulls don't have it.

Your Deng comment makes no sense, especially considering that I had been discussing Thibs as a reason they might lure Anthony. Deng wasn't going to sign for what the Bulls were willing to pay.

Who are these athletic, highly skilled players you're talking about that are being traded or hitting FA? It's not like they're available in great abundance.

I'll be the first to call out Paxson for insisting on having a version of himself on the roster but, while they don't solve the biggest problem, they do have some skill and, in theory, spread the floor.

 

[BIGGIEsmalls 23]

Teague was never going to be an option going forward.

I know, which is why he should have been played this season.

His horrid play would have given us a shot at Wiggins or Parker.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

I know, which is why he should have been played this season.

His horrid play would have given us a shot at Wiggins or Parker.

Ehhhh, there was never any tank.

 

[ChiSoxCity]

Your Deng comment makes no sense, especially considering that I had been discussing Thibs as a reason they might lure Anthony. Deng wasn't going to sign for what the Bulls were willing to pay.

Who are these athletic, highly skilled players you're talking about that are being traded or hitting FA? It's not like they're available in great abundance.

I'll be the first to call out Paxson for insisting on having a version of himself on the roster but, while they don't solve the biggest problem, they do have some skill and, in theory, spread the floor.

My Deng comment pretty much sums up the whole situation. Deng epitomized stability and professionalism. He was also the most versatile player on the roster. Letting him go was a sign the Bulls are willing to move on. Obviously if Rose had not re-injured himself, and if the Bulls played like a true contender, Deng would have not been traded during the season, for a can of tennis balls no less.

Yes, believe it or not there are guys out there in the NBA and college who can score points in multiple ways, then get back and play defense. Hard to imagine for a Bulls fan, I know... but they're out there. The Bulls have been turning down trade offers for Noah, Deng and most recently Butler for years now. The problem with this FO is they fall in love with marginal players too easily, mostly due to PR concerns.

Where is the skill on this team? In my mind, teams like San Antonio have an assortment of skilled ballplayers. The Bulls have a few, but most of them are not that talented. And by skill, I don't mean guys who can dribble the ball or pass. I'm talking about guys who can penetrate off the dribble, avoid defenders and score with either hand high off the glass with regularity. Thanks to rule changes, scorers rule the NBA. No amount of "defense," if you can call it that anymore, will change this.

 

[Enasic]

I'm tired of hearing the 'Bulls fell in love with their talent.' Bullshit. How? They were willing to give up the house for Garnett but the Wolves preferred Al Jefferson at the time to anyone we had. We were all in on Kobe but he had a no trade clause and wouldn't agree to a trade if Deng was included in the deal, and naturally, the Lakers wanted Deng after his best season as a pro. Denver wanted Deng and Noah plus assets for Anthony and in hindsight, that price was too steep. Especially considering what NY gave up for him. The Bulls don't overvalue their talent, but it takes two to tango. You can't say they overvalue their marginal talent when they gave Kirk away for just a CHANCE to haul in some big fish. The Bulls right now need a ball handling, play making, shooter, and a lengthy defensive stalwart to backup Noah. Neither one of those grow on trees but the Bulls are in good shape with current and future picks, to go along with good trade chips in Gibson, Butler, and POSSIBLY Noah if the haul is a legit franchise player.

 

[2323]

I'm tired of hearing the 'Bulls fell in love with their talent.' Bullshit. How? They were willing to give up the house for Garnett but the Wolves preferred Al Jefferson at the time to anyone we had. We were all in on Kobe but he had a no trade clause and wouldn't agree to a trade if Deng was included in the deal, and naturally, the Lakers wanted Deng after his best season as a pro. Denver wanted Deng and Noah plus assets for Anthony and in hindsight, that price was too steep. Especially considering what NY gave up for him. The Bulls don't overvalue their talent, but it takes two to tango. You can't say they overvalue their marginal talent when they gave Kirk away for just a CHANCE to haul in some big fish. The Bulls right now need a ball handling, play making, shooter, and a lengthy defensive stalwart to backup Noah. Neither one of those grow on trees but the Bulls are in good shape with current and future picks, to go along with good trade chips in Gibson, Butler, and POSSIBLY Noah if the haul is a legit franchise player.

The " legit franchise players" are almost exclusively wing players. The problem with throwing Noah's name out there is that you then have to replace Noah. The ones who are worth it, wouldn't be traded for what you listed. I question whether that match truly exists. But also, if you're going to throw Niahs name out there, you might as well also include Rose.

 

[2323]

My Deng comment pretty much sums up the whole situation. Deng epitomized stability and professionalism. He was also the most versatile player on the roster. Letting him go was a sign the Bulls are willing to move on. Obviously if Rose had not re-injured himself, and if the Bulls played like a true contender, Deng would have not been traded during the season, for a can of tennis balls no less.

Yes, believe it or not there are guys out there in the NBA and college who can score points in multiple ways, then get back and play defense. Hard to imagine for a Bulls fan, I know... but they're out there. The Bulls have been turning down trade offers for Noah, Deng and most recently Butler for years now. The problem with this FO is they fall in love with marginal players too easily, mostly due to PR concerns.

Where is the skill on this team? In my mind, teams like San Antonio have an assortment of skilled ballplayers. The Bulls have a few, but most of them are not that talented. And by skill, I don't mean guys who can dribble the ball or pass. I'm talking about guys who can penetrate off the dribble, avoid defenders and score with either hand high off the glass with regularity. Thanks to rule changes, scorers rule the NBA. No amount of "defense," if you can call it that anymore, will change this.

All it did was show they're willing to move on from Deng, who, again, wasn't going to sign for what the Bulls were willing to pay.

Give me examples and stop hiding behind generalizations. I'd like to know who these mythical players are who roam the earth in great abundance just waiting for the Bulls to call on them.

 

[BIGGIEsmalls 23]

Ehhhh, there was never any tank.

It was there. Our FO simply refused to make it a reality.

 

[The Hawk]

I'm tired of hearing the 'Bulls fell in love with their talent.' Bullshit. How? They were willing to give up the house for Garnett but the Wolves preferred Al Jefferson at the time to anyone we had. We were all in on Kobe but he had a no trade clause and wouldn't agree to a trade if Deng was included in the deal, and naturally, the Lakers wanted Deng after his best season as a pro. Denver wanted Deng and Noah plus assets for Anthony and in hindsight, that price was too steep. Especially considering what NY gave up for him. The Bulls don't overvalue their talent, but it takes two to tango. You can't say they overvalue their marginal talent when they gave Kirk away for just a CHANCE to haul in some big fish. The Bulls right now need a ball handling, play making, shooter, and a lengthy defensive stalwart to backup Noah. Neither one of those grow on trees but the Bulls are in good shape with current and future picks, to go along with good trade chips in Gibson, Butler, and POSSIBLY Noah if the haul is a legit franchise player.

Good thoughts. Your words, "it takes two to tango" are spot on. I think everyone looks at what the Heat did and they think it could happen with their
team. that was a special circumstance and frankly should never have been allowed. But it did and changed everything at the top of the league.
I still get royally pissed about that. What I do not understand and never will, is the fact that some people do not appear to understand
the impact of losing Rose for two straight seasons. Its like some people think that something could have happened differently and somehow
this was the Bulls fault.

 

[The Hawk]

That 1.7% number. Anyone think that those little ping-pong balls are loaded? Wouldn't surprise me at all considering how fishy some of their
stuff is.

 

[The Hawk]

While Thibs' stubbornness is one of his greatest assets, it's also one of his greatest flaws. The fear is that the Bulls part ways with Thibs before he finally develops a greater appreciation for offense, while relenting on defense (and other things, eg minutes). The fear is that Thibs leaves Chicago and becomes a balanced coach and less of a coach who has a hyper focus on defense.


Possibly. I've thought about that also because of the way some of our players break down late in the season. I, frankly wonder if indeed it is too much.
Maybe also, though, is that since the great days of the bench mob, Thibs really hasn't had a deep bench has he? that is where I really
come down hard on Paxson and Gar.

 

[2323]

While Thibs' stubbornness is one of his greatest assets, it's also one of his greatest flaws. The fear is that the Bulls part ways with Thibs before he finally develops a greater appreciation for offense, while relenting on defense (and other things, eg minutes). The fear is that Thibs leaves Chicago and becomes a balanced coach and less of a coach who has a hyper focus on defense.


Possibly. I've thought about that also because of the way some of our players break down late in the season. I, frankly wonder if indeed it is too much.
Maybe also, though, is that since the great days of the bench mob, Thibs really hasn't had a deep bench has he? that is where I really
come down hard on Paxson and Gar.

When players get injured, it's going to affect your depth. Also, there have been bench players who could provide some offense but Thibs favored defense more. Also, Boozers relegation tore a layer of depth away at PF.

I think if people are honest about this, some of the roster is GarPax and some of it's Thibs.

Regarding Thibs and Rose's first knee injury: I think Rose had a lot of wear and tear when they had the lockout shortened season. It was an extremely compressed schedule. Maybe Thibs driving guys hard is part of Rose's wear and tear. But I firmly believe that Rose, with the wear and tear for that season, blew out his knew because he was over compensating for other smaller injuries. I've wondered pathetic comments from the Rose camp were partly attributable to him getting injured playing such a compressed hard and also living up to Thibs' unrelenting expectations.

 

[ChiSoxCity]

All it did was show they're willing to move on from Deng, who, again, wasn't going to sign for what the Bulls were willing to pay.

Give me examples and stop hiding behind generalizations. I'd like to know who these mythical players are who roam the earth in great abundance just waiting for the Bulls to call on them.

Listen, we can get into hypotheticals about who the Bulls can draft or trade for all day. Frankly, discussions like this bore me, which is why I usually stay away from those kinds of threads. Since you insist on hearing my .02 cents on the subject. I think the Bulls should target both Adreian Payne, a 6-10 PF from MSU, and Tyler Ennis, a 6-2 PG out of Syracuse. Payne is a beast who can shoot, rebound and block shots. Ennis is a smart, facilitating PG who looks to run the offense and distribute the ball. They both provide much needed depth at key positions with Boozer and Hinrich gone (hopefully).

If they can get their hands on Payne, I'd be happy with the draft. However, the Bulls might need to move up a little in the draft to get him. The Bulls could then package their 2015 draft picks plus Mirotic and Taj for Melo. This would make them a legitimate contender again, as well as give them some security if Rose busts his ass 3x.

 

[ChiSoxCity]

When players get injured, it's going to affect your depth. Also, there have been bench players who could provide some offense but Thibs favored defense more. Also, Boozers relegation tore a layer of depth away at PF.

I think if people are honest about this, some of the roster is GarPax and some of it's Thibs.

Regarding Thibs and Rose's first knee injury: I think Rose had a lot of wear and tear when they had the lockout shortened season. It was an extremely compressed schedule. Maybe Thibs driving guys hard is part of Rose's wear and tear. But I firmly believe that Rose, with the wear and tear for that season, blew out his knew because he was over compensating for other smaller injuries. I've wondered pathetic comments from the Rose camp were partly attributable to him getting injured playing such a compressed hard and also living up to Thibs' unrelenting expectations.

Uh, you are joking about Boozer, right?

 

[2323]

Listen, we can get into hypotheticals about who the Bulls can draft or trade for all day. Frankly, discussions like this bore me, which is why I usually stay away from those kinds of threads. Since you insist on hearing my .02 cents on the subject. I think the Bulls should target both Adreian Payne, a 6-10 PF from MSU, and Tyler Ennis, a 6-2 PG out of Syracuse. Payne is a beast who can shoot, rebound and block shots. Ennis is a smart, facilitating PG who looks to run the offense and distribute the ball. They both provide much needed depth at key positions with Boozer and Hinrich gone (hopefully).

If they can get their hands on Payne, I'd be happy with the draft. However, the Bulls might need to move up a little in the draft to get him. The Bulls could then package their 2015 draft picks plus Mirotic and Taj for Melo. This would make them a legitimate contender again, as well as give them some security if Rose busts his ass 3x.

Good grief! You've got to be kidding me with this crap!

 

[2323]

Uh, you are joking about Boozer, right?

I don't see the controversy or the reason for disagreement.

Instead of posturing, you should be revisiting your Deng comments and contemplate how it's not an example of throwing out the baby with the bath water. You still haven't supplied a suitable explanation. I'm still not sure if you're familiar with what the expression means or if you're just simply really poor at coming up with relevant examples--or both.