What would you do with Alfonso Soriano?

[Rice Cube]

Okay, then what good does paying Soriano do this year?

It doesn't, but the point of the debate is not whether you should pay the money. The money has to be paid no matter what, unless Soriano has a brain fart and decides to retire or forfeit it.

The debate is whether you're better off paying the money to let Soriano keep producing as an offensive force while living with his defensive and baserunning shortcomings (as well as the poor on-base skills despite the power) or whether you should pay that money to another team so they can deal with Soriano while the Cubs get something useful back. The latter is dependent on how much other teams value Soriano, which apparently is not that much.

 

[FirstTimer]

I think the "paying for Soriano" in any year until the end of his cotnract is a non-starter. If/when Sori is traded one would have to think that the Cubs are going to be eating a TON of that contract so the Cubs will more than likely be "paying" Soriano in effect no matter where he is at for the remainder of his deal.

 

[FirstTimer]

It doesn't, but the point of the debate is not whether you should pay the money. The money has to be paid no matter what, unless Soriano has a brain fart and decides to retire or forfeit it.

The debate is whether you're better off paying the money to let Soriano keep producing as an offensive force while living with his defensive and baserunning shortcomings (as well as the poor on-base skills despite the power) or whether you should pay that money to another team so they can deal with Soriano while the Cubs get something useful back. The latter is dependent on how much other teams value Soriano, which apparently is not that much.

Well said Rice. What we need to be looking at is what the Cubs would be getting back or the spot they would be opening up by trading Sori..not if they will be paying him or not...because unless an opposing GM is a complete artard...the Cubs are going to be paying most/all of that deal anyways

 

[Captain Obvious]

It doesn't, but the point of the debate is not whether you should pay the money. The money has to be paid no matter what, unless Soriano has a brain fart and decides to retire or forfeit it.

The debate is whether you're better off paying the money to let Soriano keep producing as an offensive force while living with his defensive and baserunning shortcomings (as well as the poor on-base skills despite the power) or whether you should pay that money to another team so they can deal with Soriano while the Cubs get something useful back. The latter is dependent on how much other teams value Soriano, which apparently is not that much.

Let's say that the Brian Roberts deal is true. It's not. But let's say it's Soriano for Robert and 10 million. We send over 5 million per year and get Brian Roberts at 10 million per for the next two years. We're basically paying 15 million per year for Brian Roberts then. Brian Roberts can still come back from injury and play well. Soriano literally is a one dimensional player. Roberts plays a position of need. Soriano is blocking Brett Jackson from playing, which I think is the big kicker. Soriano is playing a position that a younger, likely better player plays. Now, if this was a season of contention, I think that we might need to hang on to Soriano. It's obviously not. Soriano is going to get worse. Brett Jackson is going to get better. Do you really want to hold BJax back another year? I don't, especially not in a season that we're going to be doing nothing.

I think the "paying for Soriano" in any year until the end of his cotnract is a non-starter. If/when Sori is traded one would have to think that the Cubs are going to be eating a TON of that contract so the Cubs will more than likely be "paying" Soriano in effect no matter where he is at for the remainder of his deal.

Honestly, any money the Cubs can save is great. If we're going to be the same amount of money, would you rather have Soriano or BJax and Roberts? I'm taking BJax and Roberts all day even if Roberts still isn't recovered from his concussion.

 

[FirstTimer]

Honestly, any money the Cubs can save is great. .

The Cubs are doubtful to be saving any money on this Soriano deal..maybe a VERY small amount but more than likely they are going to eat 90%+ of the Soriano deal then to balance the trade out pay the other players difference..much like the Zambrano deal.. except over the course of multiple seasons.

For the record, I'd do the Soriano for Roberts deal right now even if it meant eating all of Sori's contract. Dude is worthless. Be gone.

 

[Rice Cube]

I think if you are getting rid of Soriano in any deal, it's either a straight salary dump to try to save $10MM (maybe less) with nothing in return or you're paying all of the remaining salary and getting something useful back. So it's basically a question of whether you want to pay $18MM a year for three years of Soriano on the Cubs, $15MM a year for three years of Soriano on another team while you invest the $10MM or whatever elsewhere, or $18MM a year for three years of not having Soriano screw up but have someone who might be useful in the lineup or minors instead.

Saving money in this trade scenario is a pipe dream. The critical question is which is the most useful scenario to the Cubs as that money is being spent anyway.

 

[Captain Obvious]

I think if you are getting rid of Soriano in any deal, it's either a straight salary dump to try to save $10MM (maybe less) with nothing in return or you're paying all of the remaining salary and getting something useful back. So it's basically a question of whether you want to pay $18MM a year for three years of Soriano on the Cubs, $15MM a year for three years of Soriano on another team while you invest the $10MM or whatever elsewhere, or $18MM a year for three years of not having Soriano screw up but have someone who might be useful in the lineup or minors instead.

Saving money in this trade scenario is a pipe dream. The critical question is which is the most useful scenario to the Cubs as that money is being spent anyway.

I can say with certainty that Soriano on this team is not the most useful scenario.

 

[FirstTimer]

I can say with certainty that Soriano on this team is not the most useful scenario.

It depends on what's coming back and/or how confident people are that Jackson is ready in some minds.

If we paid Soriano $54 million to just leave town tomorrow and never come back I'd be fine with it but 'm not sure how great of a baseball move it would be.

 

[nwfisch]

Amazing how a guy goes from top 10 player in baseball to being worthless.

 

[FirstTimer]

Amazing how a guy goes from top 10 player in baseball to being worthless.

According to one metric.

 

[Jntg4]

Let's say that the Brian Roberts deal is true. It's not. But let's say it's Soriano for Robert and 10 million. We send over 5 million per year and get Brian Roberts at 10 million per for the next two years. We're basically paying 15 million per year for Brian Roberts then. Brian Roberts can still come back from injury and play well. Soriano literally is a one dimensional player. Roberts plays a position of need. Soriano is blocking Brett Jackson from playing, which I think is the big kicker. Soriano is playing a position that a younger, likely better player plays. Now, if this was a season of contention, I think that we might need to hang on to Soriano. It's obviously not. Soriano is going to get worse. Brett Jackson is going to get better. Do you really want to hold BJax back another year? I don't, especially not in a season that we're going to be doing nothing.



Honestly, any money the Cubs can save is great. If we're going to be the same amount of money, would you rather have Soriano or BJax and Roberts? I'm taking BJax and Roberts all day even if Roberts still isn't recovered from his concussion.

I think you mean Soriano and 10 million for Roberts, not Soriano for Robeerts and 10 million...

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Okay, then what good does paying Soriano do this year?

rice put it well

also, we are not debating "oh, well with or without soriano in the next couple of years, we're going to suck and he's going to continue to age and decline"

well duh

this has more to do with comparing individual value at the current time between the outfielders...i never said soriano was the 2nd or 3rd best long term option at outfield...but right now thats a completely different argument

 

[Rice Cube]

I think you mean Soriano and 10 million for Roberts, not Soriano for Robeerts and 10 million...

I think the Orioles would want a hell of a lot more than $10MM, so methinks in this scenario CO is suggesting that the Cubs save $10MM although it's written kind of weird.

 

[FirstTimer]

I think the Orioles would want a hell of a lot more than $10MM, so methinks in this scenario CO is suggesting that the Cubs save $10MM although it's written kind of weird.

If Theo ends up saving $10 million a year on the Sori deal he should get a parade. $10 million over the remaining life the contract even seems like a stretch given he didn't even really save any money on the Big Z deal.

 

[Rice Cube]

If Theo ends up saving $10 million a year on the Sori deal he should get a parade. $10 million over the remaining life the contract even seems like a stretch given he didn't even really save any money on the Big Z deal.

I think the Z deal was to try to get something back, which is why they had to pay the entire contract minus whatever they'll pay Volstad in arbitration. It sounded like they might have had no choice but to either release him or let him pitch in the rotation if the Marlins hadn't stepped in with Volstad, so ultimately it was either spend the money on nothing, or spend it on a reclamation project.

 

[FirstTimer]

I think the Z deal was to try to get something back, which is why they had to pay the entire contract minus whatever they'll pay Volstad in arbitration.

Well I'm sure they will want something back for Sori as well. I don't see Theo cutting him loose.

 

[Rice Cube]

Well I'm sure they will want something back for Sori as well. I don't see Theo cutting him loose.

Nah, Soriano isn't completely useless yet :lol: Some AL team will probably jump at it if it's basically the Cubs paying the entire contract and taking an undervalued prospect in return.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

we're really not going to save much if any money regardless of what happens with soriano, when we have to eat a good portion of his contract

as rice said, it's not about saving money,its about using the money wisely

 

[Rice Cube]

we're really not going to save much if any money regardless of what happens with soriano, when we have to eat a good portion of his contract

as rice said, it's not about saving money,its about using the money wisely

I would amend that because the money was already used unwisely, now they have to save the residual value of the contract and try to minimize the damage. This is a salvage operation at this point.

 

[nwfisch]

I would amend that because the money was already used unwisely, now they have to save the residual value of the contract and try to minimize the damage. This is a salvage operation at this point.

That's what it really boils down to. The Cubs are going to spend the money regardless, and if they take on Roberts, they'll be paying Soriano some on top of an uncertain Roberts. When the Cubs let Ramirez walk, traded Marshall and Zambrano, it's clear a rebuild is in full effect. Soriano is likely to tag along because no one else wants his contract.

Food for thought, If Soriano is the only person blocking Brett Jackson, maybe Jackson isn't all that and a bag of chips. I would say Byrd would be blocking Jackson. :dunno: