What would you do with Alfonso Soriano?

[Rice Cube]

There is a thing called sample size with Reed Johnson.

With Reed Johnson you do know a couple things...

1. He mashes lefties

2. He and Soriano had roughly the same value in 2011 despite the sample size issue.

Back-in-the-day Soriano (i.e. pre-2010) was much much better than Reed. Now-Soriano might not be. But that's not really for me to decide, so we'll see what the Cubs do. My guess is that they either trade him within a month or let him be the starting LF until he shows he simply can't do it anymore.

 

[JosMin]

I don't imagine the Cubs trading Soriano until the season starts. Knowing how strong of a start he had last year (10 homers in April), he needs to build some value, especially if the Cubs try and get something substantial in return. Obviously, he still has some pop and is still adequate against lefties, but his lack of defensive ability is going to limit where he can go.

Ideally, it would seem like a team in need of a DH/situational hitter/platoon outfielder are the only teams who'd have interest in him. Theo's already made it clear that he's willing to eat salaries with the Zambrano deal, so maybe we can flip him to a team like Baltimore, Oakland or Minnesota and hope to get a mid-tier prospect in return.

And honestly, if we keep him another year, it isn't the end of the world. Like I said, he still has some pop. He's not completely worthless.

 

[Rice Cube]

I think they're more likely to trade Byrd or DeJesus to make room in the OF before they are able to unload Soriano.

 

[brett05]

I don't imagine the Cubs trading Soriano until the season starts. Knowing how strong of a start he had last year (10 homers in April), he needs to build some value, especially if the Cubs try and get something substantial in return. Obviously, he still has some pop and is still adequate against lefties, but his lack of defensive ability is going to limit where he can go.

Ideally, it would seem like a team in need of a DH/situational hitter/platoon outfielder are the only teams who'd have interest in him. Theo's already made it clear that he's willing to eat salaries with the Zambrano deal, so maybe we can flip him to a team like Baltimore, Oakland or Minnesota and hope to get a mid-tier prospect in return.

And honestly, if we keep him another year, it isn't the end of the world. Like I said, he still has some pop. He's not completely worthless.

Am I the only one that thinks this is hilarious? Perhaps my brain is forgetful but I don't recall either team interested in "trash."

 

[Captain Obvious]

Uhm isn't one run a game from a player like awesome? Lineup of nine one run guys sounds record breaking

One run for the season.

Soriano was had a 12.3 RAR, that's 12.3 Runs above Replacement.

Even if his bRAR was 1.2, he still did better than Dave fucking Sappelt could ever dream of.

When did I ever say that Dave fucking Sappelt was better than Soriano? I didn't.

There is a thing called sample size with Reed Johnson.

Yet he was worth just as much in a lot less PT.

I think they're more likely to trade Byrd or DeJesus to make room in the OF before they are able to unload Soriano.

DeJesus? That kind of defeats the purpose of signing him.

Soriano is gonna be gone by the beginning of the season. I think Theo realizes that Soriano is too much dead weight and we need to salvage what we can.

 

[Rice Cube]

I don't think DeJesus will be traded before the season, but if the Cubs are out of it and DeJesus is raking, as an inexpensive guy who can play all OF positions and is productive, he'd fetch back quite a bit. So that's why I offered him as a trade option.

 

[nwfisch]

Yet he was worth just as much in a lot less PT.

Wouldn't you agree that Reed Johnson's value would likely regress if he was the full-time starter over Soriano?

 

[cmcbaseball21]

There's two things that are evident about any possible Soriano deal:
1. We won't get anything that valuable in return.
2. We'll have to eat a lot of the contract.

To me, those two facts don't make a trade worth it. Of course, there's always the possibility of a bad contract swap, but I'd prefer not to see one of those again.

 

[Rice Cube]

There's two things that are evident about any possible Soriano deal:
1. We won't get anything that valuable in return.
2. We'll have to eat a lot of the contract.

To me, those two facts don't make a trade worth it. Of course, there's always the possibility of a bad contract swap, but I'd prefer not to see one of those again.

I think the same logic with Zambrano sort of applies...would you rather spend $54MM of sunk cost on Soriano, who is aging, declining, and likely not a good defender (damn the metrics!), or would you rather spend it to get someone who might actually be able to play defense later on? It's not as cut-and-dry, but that's probably what they're going for.

 

[Captain Obvious]

Wouldn't you agree that Reed Johnson's value would likely regress if he was the full-time starter over Soriano?

Nope. He gets more value from just playing. His bat would drop, yes. But I still think he can be worth neutral runs with his bat and certainly play superior defense.

 

[JosMin]

Am I the only one that thinks this is hilarious? Perhaps my brain is forgetful but I don't recall either team interested in "trash."

Cubs looking at potential deals involving Soriano

Last time I checked, 26 homers and 88 RBIs weren't worthless, especially to a team who could potentially be in contention and need an offensive boost. He's also still good with runners on. I'm not saying he's the same player we got in the first year of his ridiculous deal, but he's far from "worthless" or "trash." His skills simply aren't something that can really benefit a rebuilding team. I find it hard to believe that he couldn't help a contending AL team or a team that suffers an injury to an outfielder.

 

[Jntg4]

One run for the season.


When did I ever say that Dave fucking Sappelt was better than Soriano? I didn't.



Yet he was worth just as much in a lot less PT.



DeJesus? That kind of defeats the purpose of signing him.

Soriano is gonna be gone by the beginning of the season. I think Theo realizes that Soriano is too much dead weight and we need to salvage what we can.

Oh, that must have been Rice then, you had him 5th behind Byrd, DeJesus, Jackson, and Johnson... Rice had him behind Sappelt, my bad.

 

[Jntg4]

I think they're more likely to trade Byrd or DeJesus to make room in the OF before they are able to unload Soriano.

Doubt they trade DeJesus, they wouldn't have signed him to not use him IMO.

 

[Rice Cube]

Doubt they trade DeJesus, they wouldn't have signed him to not use him IMO.

I addressed that above. They'll definitely use him, but they'll always keep that option open during the season to ship him elsewhere to get some farmhands.

 

[ZAN]

Pay all but 2 mill per year on his remaining salary, and trade him to some AL team for whatever we can get.

That'd open up LF for LaHaire...and we'd have the number 1 and 2 hitters in AAA (from last year) in our opening day lineup.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

BJax, DeJesus, Byrd, Johnson.

Byrd i'm not really going to argue..i never said he was the best...a year ago this argument is a little different....

i think we know that the main reason for supporting soriano here is his offensive production

is he bad at defense? yep....though i admit that in terms of fielding i think he is actually better than he was when was younger...still not good but i think better...what aggravates this matter is that his physical tools have declined especially with the cubs(i'm not going to go nearly as far as saying signing soriano was a mistake or anything but when you consider that he relies on his legs for a bit of his value as well as relying on athleticism for defense and on base running...and the fact that after 30..that begins to decline...ehhhh)

and the idea in parenthesis is really why i think soriano's defense(overall) and base running have declined(more so base running than defense) as well as his offense

am i the only one who hates directly comparing a minor league player to an mlb player?? i dont care if he's in double or triple A...its hard for me to believe that brett jackson is going to be RIGHT NOW more valuable than soriano..in a year or two of MLB experience combined with soriano continually declining? yes...and do not mistake this for me saying brett wont be a servicable player from day one..the kid plays good defense, has good strength, good on base among other things....but i dont think you can judge from the potential and physical tools standpoint and say he's already better than soriano..perhaps we should wait until he's PROVEN that

for me reed johnson is a good hitter, good at getting one base and individually producing...but he's more of a platoon bench hitter than a guy i would consider to be a reliable consistent producer(i noticed that he seriously tapered off near the end of the season as he piled up ABs...although this is i admit a bit of a dubious correlation)...reed is a good defender...he used to be great but injuries among other things have limited him...i still think soriano's better...by much? at this point...not really much

dejesus in 2010 was fantastic...last year not so much...his defense still holds as compensation for his dip in offensive production though..he is really a tricky one to figure out...i think he's probably better than soriano

soriano's baserunning is not good i understand that...neither is his OBP...which was alarmingly under .300...will this be a continuing deviation...or did he just have a bad year? tough for me to say really at this point

i will say that when we look at guys who produced not only individually by getting on base and getting runs but by looking at when he did hit that he produced for power...his AB/RBI was impressive and actually the best of his career(ya i know yada yada....he benefited from the lineups in some occasions...)

i am also looking at the approach of expendable value...which players leaving would have the bigger impact if they were not on the team..basically if that player was the independent variable(i dont use this as the end all be all or any shit like that..but its good to look at it from this approach)

without soriano we lose a significant amount of offense...of course we lost alot from pena and ramirez however i think soriano's impact in that aspect should not be undervalued...

sorry that this was long...my opinion....

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Pay all but 2 mill per year on his remaining salary, and trade him to some AL team for whatever we can get.

That'd open up LF for LaHaire...and we'd have the number 1 and 2 hitters in AAA (from last year) in our opening day lineup.

hmmmm

 

[Captain Obvious]

Byrd i'm not really going to argue..i never said he was the best...a year ago this argument is a little different....

i think we know that the main reason for supporting soriano here is his offensive production

is he bad at defense? yep....though i admit that in terms of fielding i think he is actually better than he was when was younger...still not good but i think better...what aggravates this matter is that his physical tools have declined especially with the cubs(i'm not going to go nearly as far as saying signing soriano was a mistake or anything but when you consider that he relies on his legs for a bit of his value as well as relying on athleticism for defense and on base running...and the fact that after 30..that begins to decline...ehhhh)

and the idea in parenthesis is really why i think soriano's defense(overall) and base running have declined(more so base running than defense) as well as his offense

am i the only one who hates directly comparing a minor league player to an mlb player?? i dont care if he's in double or triple A...its hard for me to believe that brett jackson is going to be RIGHT NOW more valuable than soriano..in a year or two of MLB experience combined with soriano continually declining? yes...and do not mistake this for me saying brett wont be a servicable player from day one..the kid plays good defense, has good strength, good on base among other things....but i dont think you can judge from the potential and physical tools standpoint and say he's already better than soriano..perhaps we should wait until he's PROVEN that

for me reed johnson is a good hitter, good at getting one base and individually producing...but he's more of a platoon bench hitter than a guy i would consider to be a reliable consistent producer(i noticed that he seriously tapered off near the end of the season as he piled up ABs...although this is i admit a bit of a dubious correlation)...reed is a good defender...he used to be great but injuries among other things have limited him...i still think soriano's better...by much? at this point...not really much

dejesus in 2010 was fantastic...last year not so much...his defense still holds as compensation for his dip in offensive production though..he is really a tricky one to figure out...i think he's probably better than soriano

soriano's baserunning is not good i understand that...neither is his OBP...which was alarmingly under .300...will this be a continuing deviation...or did he just have a bad year? tough for me to say really at this point

i will say that when we look at guys who produced not only individually by getting on base and getting runs but by looking at when he did hit that he produced for power...his AB/RBI was impressive and actually the best of his career(ya i know yada yada....he benefited from the lineups in some occasions...)

i am also looking at the approach of expendable value...which players leaving would have the bigger impact if they were not on the team..basically if that player was the independent variable(i dont use this as the end all be all or any shit like that..but its good to look at it from this approach)

without soriano we lose a significant amount of offense...of course we lost alot from pena and ramirez however i think soriano's impact in that aspect should not be undervalued...

sorry that this was long...my opinion....

I'm not going to address this whole post, but the bolded did stand out to me. Okay, let's say Soriano's offensive impact is there, which I have proven isn't... but I'll give you the benefit, let's say he rebounds. This year puts up good numbers, it's for nothing. Then next year he's back to declining. Next year is the earliest that we can start to compete. So we would have wasted 18MM on Soriano producing when we don't need it. On the flip side, we could trade Soriano, get BJax a spot on the team, and allow him to develop then in 2013 and beyond instead of having an aging LF that sucks ass, we have a young star-in-the-making.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

I'm not going to address this whole post, but the bolded did stand out to me. Okay, let's say Soriano's offensive impact is there, which I have proven isn't... but I'll give you the benefit, let's say he rebounds. This year puts up good numbers, it's for nothing. Then next year he's back to declining. Next year is the earliest that we can start to compete. So we would have wasted 18MM on Soriano producing when we don't need it. On the flip side, we could trade Soriano, get BJax a spot on the team, and allow him to develop then in 2013 and beyond instead of having an aging LF that sucks ass, we have a young star-in-the-making.

you missed the point

 

[Captain Obvious]

you missed the point

Okay, then what good does paying Soriano do this year?