Toast88
Well-known member
- Joined:
- May 10, 2014
- Posts:
- 12,868
- Liked Posts:
- 12,009
2,600 yards. Passer rating in the high 80s. Seems like a slam dunk to me.
2,600 yards. Passer rating in the high 80s. Seems like a slam dunk to me.
- Joined:
- Aug 20, 2012
- Posts:
- 41,218
- Liked Posts:
- 48,107
- Joined:
- Aug 21, 2012
- Posts:
- 29,345
- Liked Posts:
- 23,210
- Location:
- USA
Toast88
Well-known member
- Joined:
- May 10, 2014
- Posts:
- 12,868
- Liked Posts:
- 12,009
And?
- Joined:
- Aug 21, 2012
- Posts:
- 29,345
- Liked Posts:
- 23,210
- Location:
- USA
Do I need to explain it to you why 2688 yards in ten games is good?
That works out to 4400 passing yards in a season.
But somehow expecting Williams to throw 3600 in 17 is too high an expectation?
Toast88
Well-known member
- Joined:
- May 10, 2014
- Posts:
- 12,868
- Liked Posts:
- 12,009
Did I say it was? Who are you arguing with?
In any case, I predict Williams will play more than 10 games, so not sure what your point is.
- Joined:
- Aug 21, 2012
- Posts:
- 29,345
- Liked Posts:
- 23,210
- Location:
- USA
I am discussing what are reasonable expectations for for a 1.1 QB stats.
I said unless they are similar to top drafted QBs it would be disappointing.
Others disagreed and that it might be expecting too much for Williams to perform similarly.
Myk
85in25
- Joined:
- Sep 27, 2010
- Posts:
- 11,637
- Liked Posts:
- 4,568
You need an instant rookie success.
"I think the bar is set at Burrows, Lawrence and Stroud. If he can’t perform similarly, it’s a bad sign."
I don't think Manning performed similarly.
There's no room for QBs who take time. Or teams that take time to build around them, so basically that rules the Bears out of the running for a good QB ever.
Any QB coming to the Bears this year is going to have struggles. Even if the Bears hit on 2 good WRs, 2 OTs and a center they'll likely be rookies playing like rookies.
The whole reason I became OK with Williams is because he seems like he could survive being on the Bears while they build.
Toast88
Well-known member
- Joined:
- May 10, 2014
- Posts:
- 12,868
- Liked Posts:
- 12,009
3,600/3,700 seems pretty conservative. That’s like 200 yards a game. I realize we’re used to Fields averaging less than that, but any halfway competent NFL QB should be able to hit that pretty easily.
- Joined:
- Aug 21, 2012
- Posts:
- 29,345
- Liked Posts:
- 23,210
- Location:
- USA
I was told that’s too much to expect.
My bar was set at 3600 passing and about 300 rushing.
Myk
85in25
- Joined:
- Sep 27, 2010
- Posts:
- 11,637
- Liked Posts:
- 4,568
So did Orton.
Manning 1998, 3-13, 26td 28int, 71.2 rating. 3 fumbles 1 lost. Other than the 3739yds passing people would be ripping their dicks off and saying he was a bust.
And with Stroud's 4k Manning's rookie passing yds may not be good enough to preserve dicks.
Manning is the QB people hold up to say to have patience with rookies. And there are many who had rougher starts that turned into respectable careers.
Canth
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Mar 23, 2016
- Posts:
- 3,245
- Liked Posts:
- 4,445
it's an interesting question on how you define perform then. Both Lawrence and Burrows lost a ton as rookies - they were nowhere near the playoffs in their rookie years. Yet, you have also said that if Williams misses the playoffs as a rookie, he's a failure. So, which is it?
I thought I would throw in the stats of the 3 guys you named below. Snippets from pro-football-reference.
Trevor Lawrence threw more Ints than TDs as a rookie, which is not uncommon. He also had a shitshow of a coaching staff with Urban Meyer who quit on the team. The team went 3-14 that year. He took a step back this past year, mainly in turnovers but also took more sacks.
Joe Burrow played pretty damn well, but got hurt. Team went 2-7-1 while he was in there as a rookie. Obvious huge jump that 2nd year and is considered an elite guy.
And Stroud had one of the best rookie years of any QB in NFL history
Myk
85in25
- Joined:
- Sep 27, 2010
- Posts:
- 11,637
- Liked Posts:
- 4,568
This is Bears Footbaw! We're still comparing QBs to Sid Luckman.
- Joined:
- Aug 21, 2012
- Posts:
- 29,345
- Liked Posts:
- 23,210
- Location:
- USA
I didn’t say Williams was a failure if he missed the playoffs. I said the coaching staff failed.
The Bears are drafting at one with another teams pick.
The Bears barely missed the playoffs and have two top 10 picks.
The Bears are in a much different position than teams that drafted naturally at one.
And I don’t think it’s out of the question to expect Williams to perform similarly to every other top drafted QB.
Brownie
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Aug 21, 2012
- Posts:
- 2,377
- Liked Posts:
- 2,918
Definitely. If you pick this dude #1 overall + jettison your team leader + forgo the draft capital you could have gotten by trading out.... YEA, the expectations are way different Sir.
The argument has been that we need to make this move because it's such a "can't miss", "no brainer" and the "obvious" thing to do for us to be in a better position to win games. So let's see it.
Last edited:
- Joined:
- Aug 21, 2012
- Posts:
- 9,503
- Liked Posts:
- 12,820
My favorite teams
You make the move because your current QB still hasn't shown consistency as a pocket passer and money decisions are looming. Year 1 of Caleb Williams is not going to have year 3 of Justin Fields expectations but he will still probably beat out his stats anyway
Brownie
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Aug 21, 2012
- Posts:
- 2,377
- Liked Posts:
- 2,918
Why not, exactly?
Sculpt
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Aug 20, 2012
- Posts:
- 8,692
- Liked Posts:
- 2,945
Players are competing for starting positions to a large or small degree at every position all the time. It's a constant fact of the NFL.
Coaches and all players have to participate in having a united team. A divided locker room is very rare. And QBs have not been only focal point. The norm for teams with competing QB is not a divided locker room. Having competing players or coaches is just setting, it's not the cause.
