2013 MLB Draft Thread: Cubs with #2 pick

[SilenceS]

He would also waste a year towards being arbitration eligible. Whatever team that drafts him isn't going to blow a year by bringing him up too early this year, and will not next year either. So, not only would he lose current money, he would lose future money as well.

If you dont bring him up because of his arbitration clock then your organization is in trouble. You dont hold a player back because you dont want to spend a year earlier for him. Appel is major league ready and going to the minors for a long period would be dumb. Gray would need a year or so, but not Appel.

 

[Franko725]

I agree that he is ready, but to bring him up and waste a year of control for a team that is not going to win this year anyway would just be stupid. It would accomplish absolutely nothing. He would be just as well off going to AAA and pitching. They are not going to let him pitch a load of innings this year if they take him anyway. With the innings that he has pitched this year in college, they are going to severely limit what he throws once he gets signed, whether in Houston or Chicago.

 

[patg006]

Many have come up with every excuse in the world about how 'smart' it was to pass on him last year.

If he doesn't like the offer this year he can always go pitch Independent League baseball for a year. Luke Hochevar did it after the Dodgers selected him 40th overall in the 2005 draft and he never signed with them. He went #1 overall the next year.

Scott Boras client.

Didn't Jason Varitek do something similar with the Mariners when they drafted him? Played independent ball for 2 years then had his rights traded away. Granted This is a decade and a half difference between Hochevar and Varitek, so I'm assuming a rule changed.

Regardless; passing on him last year was foolish. Best player in the draft falls 6 spots and you pass on him for "a safe pick" (High school picks arent safe btw....)

No excuse this year. None. If Houston goes another route--this kid Bryant is rumored to steal the top spot if he keeps clubbing at his pace at U San Diego......

 

[chibears55]

If the cubs end up with Appel it would make for an interesting Sept. watching possibly 2/5 of their 2014 rotation in Appel and vizcaino ( vizcaino may be limited in IP )

If they end up extending garza and miraculously go after and get price this off season, along with samardzija they have the looking of a pretty nice rotation for 2014.

or as some think might happen, vizcaino could come back slowly in the pen for a yr or at least part of a year and they have edwin jackson..

 

[Jntg4]

Didn't Jason Varitek do something similar with the Mariners when they drafted him? Played independent ball for 2 years then had his rights traded away. Granted This is a decade and a half difference between Hochevar and Varitek, so I'm assuming a rule changed.

Regardless; passing on him last year was foolish. Best player in the draft falls 6 spots and you pass on him for "a safe pick" (High school picks arent safe btw....)

No excuse this year. None. If Houston goes another route--this kid Bryant is rumored to steal the top spot if he keeps clubbing at his pace at U San Diego......

I don't think so, don't think rights are held by teams of players who did not sign, otherwise, Appel would still be Pirates property. Unless you mean he actually signed and didn't report, then I don't know.

 

[KBisBack!]

Again KB, if you do not believe that you can sign your top pick, you do not make the selection. It would have been a waste of the pick.

Or, you can be a big boy club and make a fair offer to the best player available instead of going on the cheap and selecting a high school player that is cheaper.

Whatever fits your agenda.

As far as Hochevar goes, he was dealing with different rules back then. They did not have the caps on draft spending then, so you cannot really compare the two situations. If Appel were to go play in the Independent League, he would still have the same range of money to play with next season. He would have wasted a season of decent salary...unless he really doesn't want to pitch for Houston if they pick him.

Sure you can.

Hochevar went first the next season not because he was the best player, but because KC could sign him on the cheap.

He got $500K more in signing bonus from Kansas City over what Los Angeles offered him.

So he got the same exact range of money the next season.

And I have made the point that because he turned down $6M from Houston does not mean he would have turned it down from another team. Thanks for agreeing that is a possibility.

 

[KBisBack!]

Hochevar pitched independent league because his contract demands were high and he dropped to 40. Mark Appel will be picked top 3 and all but guaranteed to get 5-6M. There would be no point in going to the independent leagues if he is picked #3 vs. #1 as the difference in money would be 1M at most.

And Hochevar ended up with a difference of $500k, half of your $1M figure that you claim would be no point to sit out the season for.

Whoops.

 

[patg006]

If the cubs end up with Appel it would make for an interesting Sept. watching possibly 2/5 of their 2014 rotation in Appel and vizcaino ( vizcaino may be limited in IP )

If they end up extending garza and miraculously go after and get price this off season, along with samardzija they have the looking of a pretty nice rotation for 2014.

or as some think might happen, vizcaino could come back slowly in the pen for a yr or at least part of a year and they have edwin jackson..

Vizcaino is going to the bullpen; pretty sure hes gonna get groomed to be the closer when Marmol gets kicked to the curb. Bullpen needs all kinds of help, and if through your scenario where we see Garza get retained and Price acquired; along with Appel that just makes it more likely Viz is a bullpen. Because in this scenario (if they get Appel I doubt they chase Price unless he hits the market in 2015 but playing along) you got Price, Shark, Wood, Villy, Garza, and now Appel. Vizcaino has no place in the rotation. And even then, the rotation is above average now, the bullpen needs alot of work.

Still in this scenario, who's playing 3rd? How about RF? Who's gonna help drive in runs? That's what they should be addressing

 

[KBisBack!]

Didn't Jason Varitek do something similar with the Mariners when they drafted him?

I think you might be thinking of JD Drew??

His agent, Scott Boras (see a trend here), said he wouldn't sign for less than $10M. The Phillies drafted him. He didn't sign and went and played Independent League ball. The Cardinals drafted him the next year and gave him a $7M signing bonus.

 

[Franko725]

Ah, the agenda comment again...do you have anything else in your arsenal?

If the Cubs would have picked him, and he would not have signed, you would be bitching that they took a player that they couldn't sign. You seem like the type that just wants to complain about what happened in the past. I know it is easy to be an amazing arm chair GM that can sit back and see what "should" have been done. Reality doesn't work that way.

 

[KBisBack!]

If the Cubs would have picked him, and he would not have signed, you would be bitching that they took a player that they couldn't sign.

Nope.

I would have been happy that the Cubs acted like a big boy, major market team, took a shot at the best player available knowing that if they didn't get him they would now have 2 top 10 picks this year instead of acting like a small market team that has to pinch it's pennies and draft players on sign-ability over talent.

 

[patg006]

I don't think so, don't think rights are held by teams of players who did not sign, otherwise, Appel would still be Pirates property. Unless you mean he actually signed and didn't report, then I don't know.

Found it. Mariners drafted him in the first round but he signed with an independent team St. Paul Saints after his senior year at Georgia Tech after being drafted 14th overall in 1994 But he still signed with the Mariners in 1995. This I dont know if he did it as a FA or still under the rights of the 94 draft pick.

Seattle then traded him a year and a half later while he was at AA for Heathcliff Slowcomb.

Dont suppose players can do this now? Or has the MLB strictly cracked down on it?

 

[KBisBack!]

Found it. Mariners drafted him in the first round but he signed with an independent team St. Paul Saints after his senior year at Georgia Tech after being drafted 14th overall in 1994 But he still signed with the Mariners in 1995. This I dont know if he did it as a FA or still under the rights of the 94 draft pick.

Seattle then traded him a year and a half later while he was at AA for Heathcliff Slowcomb.

Dont suppose players can do this now? Or has the MLB strictly cracked down on it?

Looks like he signed with the Mariners in April of 1995.

The rules have changed. It used to be that teams had a full year to sign a player drafted. Up until the next draft I believe, so they maintained the rights to that player till the draft the next year.

So with the draft in June and Varitek signing in April, it is likely that they still had his rights.

Surprisingly his agent was Scott Boras.

So I doubt there is really that much less risk drafting Appel at #2 this year as there was at #6 last year despite it fitting the agenda of the apologists.

 

[KBisBack!]

Very good catch on Varitek though.

I didn't remember that situation at all.

 

[chibears55]

Vizcaino is going to the bullpen; pretty sure hes gonna get groomed to be the closer when Marmol gets kicked to the curb.

i read that the cubs still consider him as a potential starter but yes like i said i could see them maybe putting him i the pen next year to work him back slowly..
its possible that he can get a crack at the rotation for 2015..

if through your scenario where we see Garza get retained and Price acquired; along with Appel that just makes it more likely Viz is a bullpen. Because in this scenario (if they get Appel I doubt they chase Price unless he hits the market in 2015 but playing along) you got Price, Shark, Wood, Villy, Garza, and now Appel. Vizcaino has no place in the rotation.

the only real questionable part of my scenerio is price..

travis wood, villanueva, and edwin jackson are expendable if they gain price, extend garza, and decide to put vizcaino in the rotation...

the bullpen can be fixxed thru trades and being able to spend money on the best available FA.. or sometimes you just have to get lucky with someone..

Still in this scenario, who's playing 3rd? How about RF? Who's gonna help drive in runs? That's what they should be addressing

we and i was only discussing how the rotation could shape up with the drafting of Appel and IF they actually have a shot at price this off season VIA trade if the Rays are serious about moving him.

as far as who they get for 3rd or RF.. i just looked at an updated FA list ..



Third basemen
Chone Figgins (35)
Orlando Hudson (35)
Adam Kennedy (37)
Scott Rolen (38)

Right fielders
None

not going to get any action there... the only way they soar up those positions is by trade or inhouse

i started a thread about the possibility of chase headley for 3B..
maybe a a package of wood or villanueva a long with a couple minor leaguers could be a starting point...

 

[patg006]

i read that the cubs still consider him as a potential starter but yes like i said i could see them maybe putting him i the pen next year to work him back slowly..
its possible that he can get a crack at the rotation for 2015..

More likely, but I think bullpen will need too much help by that point. He's gotta stick first, he was a fireballer coming off TJ surgery. Now he's gotta use his location and not trust the cannon.

the only real questionable part of my scenerio is price..

A nice wet dream. Tampa will be dangling him. Texas will be chomping; St. Louis can, but probably wont. They like Oscar Tavares too much.

itravis wood, villanueva, and edwin jackson are expendable if they gain price, extend garza, and decide to put vizcaino in the rotation...

Wood I'm shocked with, and treading carefully. He looks specacular this season at 26, building on his average year last year. Jackson wont go. Villy could go, but shouldnt. Bullpen guy.

the bullpen can be fixxed thru trades and being able to spend money on the best available FA.. or sometimes you just have to get lucky with someone..

Thats funny, because I have 2 names who didnt cost what the asian sensations did, in fact, less than 1/4th of the 2 of them. Brandon Lyon (750K) and Matt Lindstron (2.1 million.)

as far as who they get for 3rd or RF.. i just looked at an updated FA list ..

Third basemen
Chone Figgins (35)
Orlando Hudson (35)
Adam Kennedy (37)
Scott Rolen (38)

Right fielders
None

not going to get any action there... the only way they soar up those positions is by trade or inhouse

i started a thread about the possibility of chase headley for 3B..
maybe a a package of wood or villanueva a long with a couple minor leaguers could be a starting point...

Sad, Scheirholtz isnt half bad, meant center. And funny about 3B as Youk or Chavez could have been here short term if the plan all along was committment to Baez/Castro/Lake at 3B of the future.

But that pesky "money" agenda....

 

[patg006]

Very good catch on Varitek though.

I didn't remember that situation at all.

To your defense, Varitek never really exploded till 1999, and even then I thought he was a career Red Sock. I knew there were problems with him draft day, I didnt know Seattle drafted him until recently (along with the Astros in 90, then Minnesota in the first round in 93.) No idea about 91 and 92.....

 

[KBisBack!]

To your defense, Varitek never really exploded till 1999, and even then I thought he was a career Red Sock. I knew there were problems with him draft day, I didnt know Seattle drafted him until recently (along with the Astros in 90, then Minnesota in the first round in 93.) No idea about 91 and 92.....

You are selling yourself short, that was a great call.

I knew very well that Varitek came up through the Seattle system and was a top prospect that the time that he and Derek Lowe were traded to Boston for Heathcliff Slocumb. That was one of the most lopsided trades in modern history and even looked bad at the time of the trade.

 

[Willrust]

And Hochevar ended up with a difference of $500k, half of your $1M figure that you claim would be no point to sit out the season for.

Whoops.

Actually, He was offered 2.98M by the Dodgers & signed for 3.5M with the Royals. However there were incentives that could have pushed to 7M.

Whoops.

 

[KBisBack!]

Actually, He was offered 2.98M by the Dodgers & signed for 3.5M with the Royals. However there were incentives that could have pushed to 7M.

Whoops.

Incentives aren't the signing bonus, that is part of the contract.

The $2.98M by the Dodgers was just the signing bonus, not the entire contract.

Whoops.