5 Thoughts and Observations on Dolphins-Bears

[FirstTimer]

You can't be serious.

First, yes, "I think that". Second, you say that teams (plural) have done this before, but cannot recall a single instance. Third, your 'characterization' of what actually happened in overtime leads me to think you didn't even watch THIS game, much less "more football than" me.

Give it a rest.

I've missed the didshe "multiple events like this have happened before!"...so obviously he has to be recalling something..but when asked he can't name it.

 

[FirstTimer]

Sorry, this is just not true. It's not even close to being true.

This is the play where they called Burton for PI.


Note a few things:

1) Ball isn't even in the fucking air.
2) The conact is not in the endzone - still within 5 yards of LOS.
3) Kiko Alonso initiates the contact - not Burton (look where Burtons hands are.)

You're wrong here or your freezeframe doesn't show the needed info.

1. The ball being in the air or not is irrelevant to OPI. OPI enforcement begins from the snap, specifically to hinder pick plays from happening prior to the QB releasing the ball.
2. No idea why #2 matters if it's in the endzone or not.
3. You can't tell by the still if Burton initiates the contact or not. Burton's hands are irrelevant to the conversation. Burton can initiate contact with his shoulders/back and Kiko can then grab him giving you the view above.


The rest of what you posted stems from your not understanding Trubisky still having the ball being irrelevant.

Burton did a terrible job of selling the route that was clearly intended to be a pick.

 

[Bearly]

Not sure your point. Giving up 278 yards a game is not good pass D. Just because you get a pick or 2 a game doesn't mean you play good pass D on the other plays where you giving up 278 yards.

Just like QB play, passer rating is still the best overall indicator as it includes INTs, yardage and TDs given up. If you want to focus on whatever portion of that has Mitch not look as good, you go right ahead, it's expected.

 

[DrGonzo]

I saw Mack dropping into coverage and/or spying the QB a lot this game...

The idea of having a spy for Osweiler makes me smile, but brings up another point. Fangio is rushing 3 or 4 guys ineffectively all day against an immobile qb. The one or two times he sent Callahan it was successful. I don't want him to get blitz-happy, and the Bears were killed more by YAC from bad tackling on quick releases than on completed downfield throws. But there were some third-and-longs where Fangio didn't increase the pressure and Osweiler had a clean pocket and plenty of time to convert. Seems like they played not to lose on both sides of the ball.

 

[Les Grossman]

1) irrelevant to the call
2) irrelevant to the call
3) Burton dips his shoulder into Kiko, which is really the only "talking point"

I agree that my description was inaccurate...Burton didn't really shove Alonso, but IMO he initiated the contact hence the call. Someone else mentioned that the Steelers ran a similar pick play to win their game and no penalty was called, but the Steelers ran their play in the middle of the field. Refs only call a penalty on the pick play when it happens in the end zone. Burton did a terrible "sell" job, and I will say two other things about this...

1) Its weird how people can defend Nagy for running up the middle three straight times to settle for a 53-yard FG, yet at the same time no one takes issue with the Bears throwing on 1st and goal from the 3.

2) The offensive PI might not even have been a big deal had Trubisky not turned into Jay Cutler the next play and forced a pass into the middle of the end zone (i.e. where all the Dolphins players had congregated).

Regarding the Steelers play, it wasn't PI because the defender initiated the contact (within 5 yards). That is how it was explained in a few articles from the review of the play.

 

[Rory Sparrow]

Also, it DOES matter if the ball is in the air or not regarding pass interference. That's the difference from defensive holding and pass interference, whether the ball has been thrown or not.

Trey Burton plays offense, tho

 

[Rory Sparrow]

The idea of having a spy for Osweiler makes me smile, but brings up another point. Fangio is rushing 3 or 4 guys ineffectively all day against an immobile qb. The one or two times he sent Callahan it was successful. I don't want him to get blitz-happy, and the Bears were killed more by YAC from bad tackling on quick releases than on completed downfield throws. But there were some third-and-longs where Fangio didn't increase the pressure and Osweiler had a clean pocket and plenty of time to convert. Seems like they played not to lose on both sides of the ball.

Do you remember when the Bears spent millions upon millions of dollars on Jared Allen, then all he ended up doing was dropping into coverage on zone blitz calls?

Anyways, the whole Bears "gameplan" was kind of lame. You'd think that if the large Bears players were getting tired in the heat, then the coaches could tap into all that incredible depth that Ryan Pace has acquired for this season and get some fresh legs on the field. Rushing 3 or 4 guys ineffectively all day is bad enough, to have them doing it in terrible humidity without constant rotation and blitzing of smaller players is ridiculous, and possibly the biggest reason why Miami compiled 541 yards.

 

[FirstTimer]

Also, it DOES matter if the ball is in the air or not regarding pass interference. That's the difference from defensive holding and pass interference, whether the ball has been thrown or not.

Not for OPI

 

[DrGonzo]

Do you remember when the Bears spent millions upon millions of dollars on Jared Allen, then all he ended up doing was dropping into coverage on zone blitz calls?

Anyways, the whole Bears "gameplan" was kind of lame. You'd think that if the large Bears players were getting tired in the heat, then the coaches could tap into all that incredible depth that Ryan Pace has acquired for this season and get some fresh legs on the field. Rushing 3 or 4 guys ineffectively all day is bad enough, to have them doing it in terrible humidity without constant rotation and blitzing of smaller players is ridiculous, and possibly the biggest reason why Miami compiled 541 yards.

I've been trying to forget Jared Allen. Thanks for bringing up a sore subject.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

 

[didshereallysaythat]

I've missed the didshe "multiple events like this have happened before!"...so obviously he has to be recalling something..but when asked he can't name it.

Oh how could I forget!

In the same game that Trestman kicked on 2nd down vs Minnesota! How could I forget!

Minnesota had 3rd down at the Bears 36 in OT (after the facemask on the FG the previous play). They chose TO RUN Peterson and he lost 3 more yards. Blair Walsh then missed a very long FG. The Vikings had a very similar situation to the Bears in that they had 1 play to get more yards before a FG and instead of passing to get substantially closer, they ran the ball conservatively and kicked a very long FG.

 

[FirstTimer]

Oh how could I forget!

I don't know. That's what we've been asking you.

 

[didshereallysaythat]

I don't know. That's what we've been asking you.

Rory said that it was "unprecedented" that a coach would chose to run the ball to setup a long (53+) yard FG to win a game instead of passing. You and him both know that is bullshit. Are you seriously going to try and say that in the history of the NFL, no team has done something very similar to what Nagy did?

And your answers are trolling. You know that. It's fine when you are are regular poster. But you are a mod now. Don't go start a thread telling people not to troll and then carry on this type of conversation with me with that type of response. You're pathetic.

 

[FirstTimer]

Rory said that it was "unprecedented" that a coach would chose to run the ball to setup a long (53+) yard FG to win a game instead of passing. You and him both know that is bullshit. Are you seriously going to try and say that in the history of the NFL, no team has done something very similar to what Nagy did?

It's pretty rare. I didn't remember this Blair Walsh instance. :shrug:

You said you remembered it happening but then couldn't provide an example..until pressed.

Why not lose the cloak and dagger routine and just provide this example right away when asked?

I never even said you were wrong, I just said I always love how you will say you "remember" something..then when asked to provide what you are remembering you 99.9% of the time have nothing. You did this time. Good work.

As for the rest of your post. Meh. You're being whiny now.

If you think what I am doing is trolling please kindly just choose to not read any posts of mine in the future.

 

[Rory Sparrow]

Oh how could I forget!

In the same game that Trestman kicked on 2nd down vs Minnesota! How could I forget!

Minnesota had 3rd down at the Bears 36 in OT (after the facemask on the FG the previous play). They chose TO RUN Peterson and he lost 3 more yards. Blair Walsh then missed a very long FG. The Vikings had a very similar situation to the Bears in that they had 1 play to get more yards before a FG and instead of passing to get substantially closer, they ran the ball conservatively and kicked a very long FG.

I already had mentioned the Trestman incident, and Gould wasn't kicking a 53-yard FG, either. So no dice there.

Your example with the Vikings in the same game is laughable. It's not the same thing, at all. Running Peterson on 3rd and 25 from your 36 makes sense...maybe get 5-6 yards and keep the FG within 50 yards. Its the exact opposite of what Nagy did, who ran 3 times up the middle once crossing midfield in order to setup a 53-yard FG.

 

[bamainatlanta]

Rory said that it was "unprecedented" that a coach would chose to run the ball to setup a long (53+) yard FG to win a game instead of passing. You and him both know that is bullshit. Are you seriously going to try and say that in the history of the NFL, no team has done something very similar to what Nagy did?

And your answers are trolling. You know that. It's fine when you are are regular poster. But you are a mod now. Don't go start a thread telling people not to troll and then carry on this type of conversation with me with that type of response. You're pathetic.

Whether or not another coach has tried it is irrelevant, it's a terrible fucking idea.

 

[Rory Sparrow]

Rory said that it was "unprecedented" that a coach would chose to run the ball to setup a long (53+) yard FG to win a game instead of passing. You and him both know that is bullshit. Are you seriously going to try and say that in the history of the NFL, no team has done something very similar to what Nagy did?

You are a disgrace. I've seen teams stall out when they get to the 30, but I've never seen a team stall out upon reaching the 40. 57 yard FG attempts aren't really in anyone's makeable range, and, again, the Bears weren't playing in a dome on turf.

Again, you said you've seen teams (plural) do this before. Please cite.

 

[Les Grossman]

Trey Burton plays offense, tho

Good point. What' I described is for defense.

 

[DaaBears]

You are a disgrace. I've seen teams stall out when they get to the 30, but I've never seen a team stall out upon reaching the 40. 57 yard FG attempts aren't really in anyone's makeable range, and, again, the Bears weren't playing in a dome on turf.

Again, you said you've seen teams (plural) do this before. Please cite.

I will take this one step further. We weren't even dealing here with the clock yet being an issue. Normally, if a team has the ball in this same situation with like 10 seconds on the clock, they will even risk a sideline pass for like 8 yards or so just to try to make it an easier Field Goal. I have never seen anybody stall and be content with a 53 yarder before. 30-35 yards yes. They sometimes have a final run play to kick from the hash marks that the kicker prefers.

 

[Rory Sparrow]

I will take this one step further. We weren't even dealing here with the clock yet being an issue. Normally, if a team has the ball in this same situation with like 10 seconds on the clock, they will even risk a sideline pass for like 8 yards or so just to try to make it an easier Field Goal. I have never seen anybody stall and be content with a 53 yarder before. 30-35 yards yes. They sometimes have a final run play to kick from the hash marks that the kicker prefers.

Yes, that was the other misstep by "didshereallysaythat"...he initially claimed that Nagy was merely running out the clock, not recognizing that a) too much time was left on the clock already, so there was nothing to "run out" and b) the Bears actually called timeout on 2nd down. He's been silent about that claim, too.

Just an utter, massive failure of a posting by didshe. Glad to be back.

 

[didshereallysaythat]

I already had mentioned the Trestman incident, and Gould wasn't kicking a 53-yard FG, either. So no dice there.

Your example with the Vikings in the same game is laughable. It's not the same thing, at all. Running Peterson on 3rd and 25 from your 36 makes sense...maybe get 5-6 yards and keep the FG within 50 yards. Its the exact opposite of what Nagy did, who ran 3 times up the middle once crossing midfield in order to setup a 53-yard FG.

Haha, you are still running the ball to setup a LONG FG. Instead of passing to try and get much closer!! How you can not see the similarity is beyond me.