[A] LEAVE BOWMAN ALONE!

[Ton]

So you know for a fact then, that he has not talked to another GM to get a center?



And if teams are wanting Shaw, Leddy, Saad or McNeil - and/or more to get a center - is that worth it? For Roy? Ribeiro? That's what you'd want? Because Frolik, Bickell, Stalberg, Hjarrlmarsson....aren't getting it done.

I don't know for a fact, no one knows but the front office, but he has publicly stated that he is not looking, but he will look at offers. To me, that is not being aggressive enough for a position in need.



As far as prospect depth: Yes it's worth it! How many prospects do we have in the system that are capable? You just named 4. You think Shaw, Leddy, Saad, McNeill, Pirri, Danault, Morin, Beach, J. Hayes, K. Hayes, Clendening, Holl, Johns, Smith, etc.. etc.. are all going to make the roster within the next 3-4 years and how many of them have the "potential" to make an impact that a proven 2nd line C will in the immediate future as well as the next 3-4 years? Which, by the way, is another 3-4 years of building that depth in the system. Even if that 2nd line C is signed for 2-3 years, do it. If it's a one year deal, the price could be cheaper so I would still consider it.

 

[sth]

Yeah but getting prospects up to the big club isn't the only purpose for drafting prospects. The other purpose is to use as chips to acquire people. Maybe RK is right when he says other GM's don't like Bowman so drive a harder bargain on him. Which I know sounds counter intuitive. But Bowman hasn't done much of anything. A couple moves. He hasn't blundered really but has done little, the team has been stuck in the same spot.

 

[R K]

Yeah so give up. Sounds like Bowman. "We are fine at center" bullshit, he isn't even trying... not like he's lying to the media here, he isn't even looking. Roy was traded for a 3rd liner, Ribeiro was had for picks and prospects. I'm not suggesting Bowman had a chance on either, but it's obvious that 2nd line centers (those two can arguably be called 1A centers) could be had for a decent price if he makes it a priority. The guy has always been lackadaisical towards the trade market, and that is his biggest problem. He needs to grow some balls and get what he needs.

Then you can't really use them as examples can you? What GM says what they are doing? None of them. Of course he's going to say this team is fine they were 4 games away from the Presidents Trophy missing their Captain, arguably one of the best two way players in the game, for 1/4 of the season. Nor was he healthy in the playoffs.



I don't read anything into what ANY GM says because none of them play their cards to the media, and or fans. He's said multiple times he's been trying to "tweak" the team and it's clear with rumors of offers to Suter, Broduer, and Parise that he is.



You can't "assume" any of those players were availabe to the Hawks. Specially Dallas, as they don't usually trade within the Conference. BTW Roy might just miss the entire season. So glad he flopped on that one.....

 

[R K]

How the hell do you know that?



So BUF goes from wanting Ott to Kane? What the **** are you smoking? Dallas goes from a prospect and pick to Sharp? GTFO, that sentence is pretty damn ridiculous... and honestly insulting to me.



If that's the case, then he's getting fucked beyond belief out there and quite honestly I don't believe that is the case.



Never stated that we haven't drafted well, I clearly stated that he has been failing in the trade department.



Stan has stated NUMEROUS times that he is content at center. He's not looking, I'll provide the link if you want. Unless of course he's lying to the media now. All I'm saying is he needs to be more aggressive, it's no secret that he has had trouble in the trade department for 3 years now.

[background=rgb(250,250,250)]"We've talked to a number of players and their agents," Bowman said. "Anytime we can improve our team, we're going to look at it, whether it's a free-agent signing or trade."[/background]​

[background=rgb(250,250,250)]To me, that proves NOTHING about his aggressiveness on the trade market. Sounds more like "we'll sit back and listen to offers, but meh, we'll see"[/background]​

It's pretty clear anything Buffalo is willing to do with the Hawks contains a deal for Kane.

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

buttosaurasrex

 

[R K]

Yeah but getting prospects up to the big club isn't the only purpose for drafting prospects. The other purpose is to use as chips to acquire people. Maybe RK is right when he says other GM's don't like Bowman so drive a harder bargain on him. Which I know sounds counter intuitive. But Bowman hasn't done much of anything. A couple moves. He hasn't blundered really but has done little, the team has been stuck in the same spot.

Glad he didn't cave in last year when Burke was Dangling Schenn for McNiel. A player Burke wanted in the Draft but the Hawks snagged him before they could get there. Primarily because we lack depth at C and I assume that's why we drafted him.



Going back three years there hasn't been much at 2nd line Center available. Last year Richards was the only one. This year, I didn't see any I'd give my depth away for. Then you add the disdain and the fact some teams just won't deal with other teams in their Conference or Division, IE Vermette, who I think might have fit. By CBJ turning down the Wings on Nash, you know they weren't dealing anyone of calibur in their division.

 

[R K]

buttosaurasrex

Don't you have a Ranger board to be posting on somewhere?

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

Don't you have a Ranger board to be posting on somewhere?

lundqvistsaurasrex

 

[R K]

I don't know for a fact, no one knows but the front office, but he has publicly stated that he is not looking, but he will look at offers. To me, that is not being aggressive enough for a position in need.



As far as prospect depth: Yes it's worth it! How many prospects do we have in the system that are capable? You just named 4. You think Shaw, Leddy, Saad, McNeill, Pirri, Danault, Morin, Beach, J. Hayes, K. Hayes, Clendening, Holl, Johns, Smith, etc.. etc.. are all going to make the roster within the next 3-4 years and how many of them have the "potential" to make an impact that a proven 2nd line C will in the immediate future as well as the next 3-4 years? Which, by the way, is another 3-4 years of building that depth in the system. Even if that 2nd line C is signed for 2-3 years, do it. If it's a one year deal, the price could be cheaper so I would still consider it.

But again you are ASSUMING any of those prospects are going to bring back a 2nd line Center. Name me teams that have so much depth at their top two Centers they are willing to dump them to another for "prospects". Maybe at the TDL but I didn't see much past Vermette being dealt at the TDL last year. Certainly not while everyone has a shot at winning.

 

[fanof19]

Which means they added him on. So instead of going with what they originally had, they brought him in midway.



That doesn't even worsen my argument, if anything it benefits it.

It was a political add on. A call was made. Do you really think they are going to listen to ANY advice he has??? LOL Just like his ONE vote he got for GM of the year. HAHAHAHAHA

 

[R K]

Scotty is allowed to vote?

 

[Ton]

But again you are ASSUMING any of those prospects are going to bring back a 2nd line Center. Name me teams that have so much depth at their top two Centers they are willing to dump them to another for "prospects". Maybe at the TDL but I didn't see much past Vermette being dealt at the TDL last year. Certainly not while everyone has a shot at winning.

I already gave examples: Ribiero left Dallas for picks and prospects. Roy left Buffalo for a 3rd liner.



Didn't even hear a peep about Bowman. Plekanec is available, where are the Hawks in the rumor mill on that? Sleeping. Oh wait, they must be asking for part of the "core"



Bullshit. NYR didn't give up any of their core for Nash. This isn't a new concept, it's been active for years. Who was Joe Thornton traded for? Who was Gretzky traded for? If he was aggressive he would find a package outside of the core to make a GM happy. No where to be seen on the trade front. If he makes a move for a 2nd line C I'll bite my tongue but I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. That said, watch a few more centers move around in the next few months and Bowman caught with his pants around his ankles.

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

tonasaurasrex

 

[PatrickShart]

I already gave examples: Ribiero left Dallas for picks and prospects. Roy left Buffalo for a 3rd liner.



Didn't even hear a peep about Bowman. Plekanec is available, where are the Hawks in the rumor mill on that? Sleeping. Oh wait, they must be asking for part of the "core"



Bullshit. NYR didn't give up any of their core for Nash. This isn't a new concept, it's been active for years. Who was Joe Thornton traded for? Who was Gretzky traded for? If he was aggressive he would find a package outside of the core to make a GM happy. No where to be seen on the trade front. If he makes a move for a 2nd line C I'll bite my tongue but I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. That said, watch a few more centers move around in the next few months and Bowman caught with his pants around his ankles.

What were the cap rules/ramifications back when those guys were traded? Because nowadays...prospects matter for the sense that you have lower contracts and team control - so they become more valuable due to the contracts as much as skill.



But since you asked? Thornton was traded for a pretty good Marco Sturm, and Brad Stuart (both were 1st round picks respectively) and Wayne Primeau. So 3 guys who were NHL core players for Thornton.



So the Hawks should have given up 3 regulars - say Stalberg, Hjarllmarsson, and Hayes...for Roy or Ribeiro?

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

What were the cap rules/ramifications back when those guys were traded? Because nowadays...prospects matter for the sense that you have lower contracts and team control - so they become more valuable due to the contracts as much as skill.



But since you asked? Thornton was traded for a pretty good Marco Sturm, and Brad Stuart (both were 1st round picks respectively) and Wayne Primeau. So 3 guys who were NHL core players for Thornton.



So the Hawks should have given up 3 regulars - say Stalberg, Hjarllmarsson, and Hayes...for Roy or Ribeiro?

Roy and Ribeiro will never be running away with scoring titles like Thorton did for a few season in SJ. Stalberg and a 3rd rounder for Roy would have been fine.



I'd do Stalberg, Hammer and Hayes for Getzlaf

 

[Pez68]

Here is the thing, Bowman hasn't necessarily made a terrible deal, but he hasn't found any gems out there either. He plays it safe, which is OK. I don't want the Blackhawks to be OK, I want them to win the Cup. He needs to take a risk and make a big play. He tried and failed in the FA market, his fault or not. Now he needs to look in the trade market but the Hawks camp is notoriously quiet once again in that aspect. He struck out with the FA's and now all of the sudden he is content? Let's go Stand Pat Bowman, make the move that puts this team in the Western Conference driver seat!



Don't get me wrong, I like the direction of our system. We have a lot of great young players coming up but they simply are not ready for a big role on the team. Even if McNeill made the team, or Danault, who really expects them to fill the 2nd line C void? You can't rely on a young kid like that unless you are in a rebuilding process. When was the last time a Stanley Cup winning team had a rookie at the 2nd line C position? It is too vital to ignore, and if you can create a package to bring in a player like that you take it regardless of the potential in the system. Just leave enough to replace the roster players you may have to deal to get that return.

Stalberg is turning out to be a pretty good acquisition. Leddy? Shaw?



How many GMs come out and state exactly what they are looking for? That's akin to showing your hand in poker. You don't do it. Other teams already know what the Hawks need, if they're paying attention. Saying it publicly reeks of desperation.... and you give up any leverage you may have had. How many GMs want to help a team get better that is a couple pieces away from dominating the Western Conference for the next 3-4 years? People here and their bias is ridiculous. Bowman is doing nothing any other GM in the NHL is doing. The things you're ragging on him for, you can rag on 29 other GMs in the NHL.



Give me a fucking break....

 

[PatrickShart]

More proof that some GM's (Howson, Niewendyk)...don't trade within conference or division. DET offered more than NYR did for Nash -

Comments (32)​

[font=Arial, sans-serif]Red Wings GM Ken Holland was bound to say something more than he offered the Free Press’s Helene St. James regarding what was all but certainly a better offer for Rick Nash than what the New York Rangers ended up giving Columbus, which declined doing business with Detroit…[/font]​

http://network.yardbarker.com/nhl/article_external/red_wings_gm_ken_holland_tells_pleiness_that_hes_happy_with_his_teambut_plans_on_making_moves/11282557

​

#RedWings GM Ken Holland: "I talked to Scott Howson a number of times, we did make an offer for Rick Nash."\

And he did just that while speaking to the Macomb Daily’s Chuck Pleiness, albeit while keeping what I can best describe as that strangely dichotomous party line going—cue the “happy with our team” versus the team will move aggressively to improve itself spiel. First, Pleiness confirms that the Wings​

offered the Blue Jackets

More than the Rangers did….​

​

Detroit’s offer generated zero conversation. It’s not known what the Wings offered, but the source said it was “four pieces.”​

Howson was looking for at least two proven NHL forwards in return for the six-time 30-goal scorer. That’s a pretty steep asking price for any team, including the Wings, who would more than likely have to part with proven talent like Johan Franzen or Valtteri Filppula and perhaps even throw in an up-and-coming star like Darren Helm or Gustav Nyquist.​

 

[R K]

I already gave examples: Ribiero left Dallas for picks and prospects. Roy left Buffalo for a 3rd liner.



Didn't even hear a peep about Bowman. Plekanec is available, where are the Hawks in the rumor mill on that? Sleeping. Oh wait, they must be asking for part of the "core"



Bullshit. NYR didn't give up any of their core for Nash. This isn't a new concept, it's been active for years. Who was Joe Thornton traded for? Who was Gretzky traded for? If he was aggressive he would find a package outside of the core to make a GM happy. No where to be seen on the trade front. If he makes a move for a 2nd line C I'll bite my tongue but I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. That said, watch a few more centers move around in the next few months and Bowman caught with his pants around his ankles.

And I countered with let me know which Dallas player they've traded to a competitor in conference. And they Buffalo wants Kane. See how that works.



Dale didn't get us a 2nd line Center either, he played Sharp there. They don't grow on trees.

 

[R K]

More proof that some GM's (Howson, Niewendyk)...don't trade within conference or division. DET offered more than NYR did for Nash -

Comments (32)​

[font=Arial, sans-serif]Red Wings GM Ken Holland was bound to say something more than he offered the Free Press’s Helene St. James regarding what was all but certainly a better offer for Rick Nash than what the New York Rangers ended up giving Columbus, which declined doing business with Detroit…[/font]​

http://network.yardb..._moves/11282557​

#RedWings GM Ken Holland: "I talked to Scott Howson a number of times, we did make an offer for Rick Nash."\​

And he did just that while speaking to the Macomb Daily’s Chuck Pleiness, albeit while keeping what I can best describe as that strangely dichotomous party line going—cue the “happy with our team” versus the team will move aggressively to improve itself spiel. First, Pleiness confirms that the Wings ​

offered the Blue Jackets

More than the Rangers did….​

Detroit’s offer generated zero conversation. It’s not known what the Wings offered, but the source said it was “four pieces.”​

Howson was looking for at least two proven NHL forwards in return for the six-time 30-goal scorer. That’s a pretty steep asking price for any team, including the Wings, who would more than likely have to part with proven talent like Johan Franzen or Valtteri Filppula and perhaps even throw in an up-and-coming star like Darren Helm or Gustav Nyquist.​

I already used that example, he ignored me. I hate how Stan "acquired" his job, but that said there isn't much out there for a Center especially if GM's are asking him for the "core" or part of it, back.

 

[jakobeast]

There is staill a chance to redeem himself...fill the huge, huge, huge hole between the pipes. Get Lou! All this crying over money is strictly Bull Sh1t, why do you think there is a cap, use it! If not then the cap is too high, lower it! Lou is a deal considering the money paid to some run of the mill players of late. He is proven, he is good and he is a team player who is an asset...don't let him get away as without someone of caliber between the pipes, we don't have a hope in he77!

You can say bullshit and hell here. It is ok.