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2SeamHeat
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Wow... Homers being Homers.
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Or it means the Cubs have a lot of fly ball pitchers....and/or have been giving up batted balls to the OF.
So no..it doesn't debunk anything.
Soriano blows defensively. Always has. Always will.
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FT pulled a Capt Serious on this one.. lololol
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Actually I didn't.
The Cubs are near the bottom of the league in GB/FB ratio...so Soriano having more outs made as an OF'er shouldn't be all that shocking.
Go back to your train tracks kid.
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I'll also add this.
Soriano might also be "getting to more balls" this year because of the Cubs increased reliance on pre-pitch defensive positioning. This helps negate One of Soriano's biggest issues(paths to the baseball). So Soriano not making any errors isn't some revelation of him becoming a more adept fielder or "getting to more baseballs" it could have something to do with an organization theory as well. In the end, what make it seem as though he's getting to more balls could be a by product of the news Cubs management and not some indicator that Soriano is now better at chasing down fly balls. His range this year has sucked.
Soriano has had a great year at the plate and I give him a hell of a lot of credit for playing the season on what looks like at times..one leg..but the guy still takes shit paths to the ball, his range is limited, and while he may not have made any errors that doesn't somehow equate him out to a good fielder.
Soriano might also be "getting to more balls" this year because of the Cubs increased reliance on pre-pitch defensive positioning. This helps negate One of Soriano's biggest issues(paths to the baseball). So Soriano not making any errors isn't some revelation of him becoming a more adept fielder or "getting to more baseballs" it could have something to do with an organization theory as well. In the end, what make it seem as though he's getting to more balls could be a by product of the news Cubs management and not some indicator that Soriano is now better at chasing down fly balls. His range this year has sucked.
Soriano has had a great year at the plate and I give him a hell of a lot of credit for playing the season on what looks like at times..one leg..but the guy still takes shit paths to the ball, his range is limited, and while he may not have made any errors that doesn't somehow equate him out to a good fielder.
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^ I can go with that.
He has had a couple of decent to awesome catches, but even Carlos Lee looks like a god sometimes.
He has had a couple of decent to awesome catches, but even Carlos Lee looks like a god sometimes.
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Exactly, but if he was able to run normally would those catches have had to of been so dramatic. Not a great example..but Edmonds made a ton of great looking over the shoulder catches..he also always played extremely shallow. If he starts more normally positioned do those catches occur?
2SeamHeat
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Uh huh.... Cubs have given up balls to the OF in 1983 PAs per BR. They also have a current GB/FO rate of 1.02 (and falling considerably over the past few days) not including bunts per MLB.com.
The rest of the league?
WSN: 1888 1.15 GO/FO rate
ATL: 1956 1.15 GO/FO rate
PHI: 1954 1.02 GO/FO rate
NYM: 1960 0.98 GO/FO rate
MIA: 2098 1.10 GO/FO rate
CIN: 1960 1.11 GO/FO rate
STL: 1954 1.32 GO/FO rate
PIT: 1934 1.19 GO/FO rate
MIL: 2066 1.08 GO/FO rate
HOU: 2003 1.24 GO/FO rate
SFG: 1965 1.10 GO/FO rate
LAD: 1840 1.22 GO/FO rate
ARI: 1974 1.15 GO/FO rate
SDP: 1870 1.21 GO/FO rate
COL: 2073 1.25 GO/FO rate
Seems to me the Cubs pretty much fall in line with the majority of the league there in terms of ball hit to the OF... What's your next excuse? Probably that the Cubs have given up the 2nd most FOs in the league? Well then, let's take a look at where the plays have actually been made. LF has had 275 chances so far. CF, 350. RF, 276. So, out of 918 OF chances (according to BR), roughly 30% have gone to LF. The rest of the league?
WSN: 218, 24% ATL: 262, 27% PHI: 273, 31% NYM: 253, 27% MIA: 293, 30%
CIN: 280, 31% STL: 233, 27% PIT: 282, 31% MIL: 295, 33% HOU: 228, 26%
SF: 267, 28% LAD: 282, 34% ARI: 225, 25% SD: 245, 28% COL: 233, 27%
Seems to me that the Cubs aren't allowing a whole hell of a lot more balls go to LF than most of the rest of the league. So... next excuse?
Look, I'm not saying that Soriano is the best defensive OF in the world. I'm not even saying he's really all that good. However, he's been the best LF in the NL this year. Despite what you believe you've observed. Sorry, but just about every set of stats you can find pretty much back that up. Since the change of last year when all three OF positions are awarded a GG, rather than just three OFs in general as was the previous case, he deserves to win the LF GG this year.
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Too bad I'm not looking at only put outs. I'm looking at all totals. They are near the bottom of the in GB/FB ratio you can try to argue it all you want but you'll keep on looking Special person.
I've already also covered why it may seem Soriano is "getting to more balls" when he's really not. Essentially his totals are "false positives".
Keep on defending Soriano as any sort of competent defensive player...it only makes you look like more and more of a baseball Special person.
LOL at Soriano being "the best LFer in the NL" this season.
Do you seriously have shit between your ears?
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BRB going to watch 2SeamHeat use defensive statistics(which are habitually unreliable) to baby Soriano's shitty defense.
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Maybe it's better to say that Soriano is efficient at converting outs.
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And Edmonds was well known to add flourishes to his catches to make his plays look more spectuclar as well.
2SeamHeat
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Yes, because no team has ever used "pre-pitch positioning". I mean, guys like Joe Jackson only have that as part of their legends. How long ago did he play again? Oh, but I suppose he was the only guy that ever did that. I'm sure the Cubs are the only team to have thought to do it since the early 1900s. -Note the sarcasm- But I'm an idiot? I think that even CO wouldn't use such a stupid argument to prove his case.
And yet you ignore the fact that the Cubs really aren't seeing more plays to LF than most other teams, as I pointed out. But, I'm the Special person. I can back my argument. What do you have, one stat that's been debunked? But yet, I supposedly have shit between my ears? You have nothing... not a damned thing to suggest my points are wrong. I understand why you'd be down on Soriano... but facts are facts. You can keep your blind bias all you wish... but in the end... Soriano is making more plays than pretty much everyone else at his position in the NL in about the same total of opportunities.
Come on. Prove differently with something other than your meaningless "observations". Prove this vast intelligence you allude to... rather than just make false, and easily dis-proven, blanket statements most likely based upon observation from previous years. Prove your claim of "false postives"... as in the very post you respond to I've trashed your theory that Soriano is making more plays because more are going to him than most of the LFs in the NL.
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I think a good compromise is that Alfonso Soriano has improved his positioning and overall fielding but still doesn't look like a superb defender; however, he is getting to most of the balls hit to him without making an error. Most of us watching the games know how hard it is for him to run after balls not hit directly to him, and how hard it is for him to stop once he is able to corral the ball. But he still has the arm (hence the assists and double plays) and doesn't bobble as much as in previous seasons.
Carry on
opcorn:
Carry on
opcorn:
2SeamHeat
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Better yet, oh exalted genius, who do you think has been better in LF amongst qualifiers in the NL... and why?
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I never said that you fucking goof.
I said the Cubs had never used it, at least to the extent Theo and Co via Sveum have used it this season..and in future ones.
Nice work missing that simple idea.
Pretty funny, when you get into with CO you seem intelligent but as soon as you step into the big arena with the big time players you are inept. You're a classic AAAA poster.
Not.
The.
Point.
The large idea isn't that they are seeing a "larger" number of plays to left it's if Soriano is actually "getting to balls" or he's better positioned to get to balls this year he hasn't been in the past(which is actually the case). Soriano has basically been playing hobbled all season yet he somehow improved his range? Do you realize how stupid you sound? Soriano has played adequately in the field this season, he's made outs when he's had the chances but I'm not going to be dumb enough, like you are, you extrapolate that into him being the best LF'er in the NL this season or that he is still "getting to balls" or getting to them better. he's better positioned to take advantage of the odds. His numbers are a false positive.
As can I. As I have repeatedly done in here.
But you ignore GB/FB ratio and new defensive scheming by the Cubs because you want to suck off Sori. Got it.
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Q about GB/FB ratio...as an outfielder it's really difficult to convert a groundball that makes it through all the way to him into an out unless he is able to record an assist, obviously. But if he's able to make it to that grounder in time he can prevent runners from advancing multiple bases. So that seems like looking at GB/FB ratio doesn't matter as much except when you take into account his arm (accuracy and strength) and his ability to actually get to the grounder without flubbing it.
Therefore the efficiency by which he can record an out is mostly centered around how many fly balls he can actually get to.
As I've said, though, Soriano simply doesn't look like a good defender out in the field, but he's at least efficient at converting outs. That seems to be the criteria 2seam is using. The Gold Glove voters probably won't look at that efficiency and will instead note that Soriano looks like crap on routes to the ball and even when he makes the catch he sometimes looks awkward doing so. The fact that it always looks so painful when he's trying to chase down a ball probably works against him too.
Therefore the efficiency by which he can record an out is mostly centered around how many fly balls he can actually get to.
As I've said, though, Soriano simply doesn't look like a good defender out in the field, but he's at least efficient at converting outs. That seems to be the criteria 2seam is using. The Gold Glove voters probably won't look at that efficiency and will instead note that Soriano looks like crap on routes to the ball and even when he makes the catch he sometimes looks awkward doing so. The fact that it always looks so painful when he's trying to chase down a ball probably works against him too.
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Also nice to know that me pointing out that the Cubs have used pre pitching defensive positioning for the first time/at an incredibly increased rate than ever before is tantamount to me saying/implying no other team n MLB history has used this strategy before to 2Seam.
Got it.
Got it.
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I wonder when Wikipedia said the first ever spray chart was used :lol:
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