All-Star Reserves Obtained, No Boozer

[houheffna]

It seems that me and you have a different fundamentally different view of the varying forms of the word "great" (i.e. spectular, better, sucks, etc.). I'm not sure continuing on with this conversation is going to get us anywhere any time soon...

And Kevin Love is definitely an All-Star caliber PF. The West was stocked full of those this year and has been for a long time.

I just believe that Duncan is much better than Love. And even though that's my opinion, I will go pretty close to saying that I know he is. I can't understand how anybody could see it differently for reasons I've already explained.

Kevin Love is having an allstar season...Duncan is not. He is on the team based on reputation and his team's success. He does not play as critical a role on San Antonio as Garnett does on Boston. At least not up to this point. Look at the stats if you are not convinced by the play. PER-Love is better, Duncan having worst season of his career. True Shooting percentage-ditto. All around, Love is just having a better season. People who watch basketball will tell you that. Its not close.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

The reason I like Duncan so much more than Love is that I believe Duncan can still have flashes of greatness offensively and he is not a liability defensively. It's not like Duncan and Love are way out of one-another's tier. I just believe that Duncan is good enough to get it done in a variety of ways that Love cannot. Passing, low-post offense, and defense all-around. Those things are huge. You can't undervalue winning and knowing how to win. The Spurs would be a shell of themselves with Love in Duncan's stead.

The biggest compliment I gave to Tracy McGrady is that he is not an idiot like J.R. Smith. Nobody even dared touch the "J.R. Smith isn't an idiot" battle because that is a losing cause. McGrady is still a decent player who can do some solid things. He's not an NBA starter anymore, nor should he be getting major minutes.

Shaq is playing great basketball and has been effective for Boston. That's plain as day. He needs to play in limited minutes and lacks any explosiveness that he used to have, but he knows how to play his position by utilizing his size. He does this effectively.

Garnett is still easily an NBA All-Star player despite losing some leaping ability. Everything else he brought to the table since he got to the league in 1996 is still very much intact.

Duncan is inconsistent because his legs are starting to give out on him. It hasn't completely happened yet. But this is a guy who is still a multi-dimensional player and one who has an impact on the floor whenever he's out there. Aside from rebounding, Love doesn't bring the floor presense of Tim Duncan. His three-point shooting isn't enough to cut it, seeing as Duncan has the open 18 foot bank shot down.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Kevin Love is having an allstar season...Duncan is not. He is on the team based on reputation and his team's success. He does not play as critical a role on San Antonio as Garnett does on Boston. At least not up to this point. Look at the stats if you are not convinced by the play. PER-Love is better, Duncan having worst season of his career. True Shooting percentage-ditto. All around, Love is just having a better season. People who watch basketball will tell you that. Its not close.

I will grant you that what I have seen of Love this season has been limited to a couple of games. But I have seen plenty of Spurs games and Duncan is playing an extremely important role for them, and is a huge reason why they are in first place (let alone- up by 7 games) in the West. Comparing TD's role to KG's is a little unfair because KG has just about as vital of a role on BOS as Pierce or Rondo do.

And regardless of anything, to say "it's not close" is brash. PER is not any effective means of measuring a player. It will give you an idea of the volume of stats they put up while a given player is on the floor.

Duncan still has plenty of upside over Love and you know it.

 

[houheffna]

The reason I like Duncan so much more than Love is that I believe Duncan can still have flashes of greatness offensively and he is not a liability defensively. It's not like Duncan and Love are way out of one-another's tier. I just believe that Duncan is good enough to get it done in a variety of ways that Love cannot. Passing, low-post offense, and defense all-around. Those things are huge. You can't undervalue winning and knowing how to win. The Spurs would be a shell of themselves with Love in Duncan's stead.

The biggest compliment I gave to Tracy McGrady is that he is not an idiot like J.R. Smith. Nobody even dared touch the "J.R. Smith isn't an idiot" battle because that is a losing cause. McGrady is still a decent player who can do some solid things. He's not an NBA starter anymore, nor should he be getting major minutes.

Shaq is playing great basketball and has been effective for Boston. That's plain as day. He needs to play in limited minutes and lacks any explosiveness that he used to have, but he knows how to play his position by utilizing his size. He does this effectively.

Garnett is still easily an NBA All-Star player despite losing some leaping ability. Everything else he brought to the table since he got to the league in 1996 is still very much intact.

Duncan is inconsistent because his legs are starting to give out on him. It hasn't completely happened yet. But this is a guy who is still a multi-dimensional player and one who has an impact on the floor whenever he's out there. Aside from rebounding, Love doesn't bring the floor presense of Tim Duncan. His three-point shooting isn't enough to cut it, seeing as Duncan has the open 18 foot bank shot down.

My goodness you are getting worse...

You are telling me what Duncan is capable of...I am telling you what Love HAS DONE! Case closed. You are arguing the case for snubbing a 20-15 player, for a player who's knees are giving out on him? There are times Duncan is on the floor and he does nothing...absolutely nothing! Because he doesn't have to!!! You are telling me who is fundamentally the better player. I am telling you who is having the best year. That is why they have these games and all league awards once a year. Every year speaks for itself.

The whole McGrady thing is a dumb argument that you keep changing the premise of. You said that McGrady was better as a player, not smarter, not that McGrady has more common sense. You said he is a better player. Smith being a bigger idiot does not mean that McGrady is better. It means that McGrady is wiser. I can say based on what I have seen that Deng is not as big an idiot as Lebron....so what???

 

[houheffna]

I will grant you that what I have seen of Love this season has been limited to a couple of games. But I have seen plenty of Spurs games and Duncan is playing an extremely important role for them, and is a huge reason why they are in first place (let alone- up by 7 games) in the West. Comparing TD's role to KG's is a little unfair because KG has just about as vital of a role on BOS as Pierce or Rondo do.

And regardless of anything, to say "it's not close" is brash. PER is not any effective means of measuring a player. It will give you an idea of the volume of stats they put up while a given player is on the floor.

Duncan still has plenty of upside over Love and you know it.

Duncan HAS NO UPSIDE!!!! He is 35 years old!!! Are you kidding me with this stuff man? he is a year or two from retirement...as far as those two and the years they have had up to this point. It is not close. It really isn't. Duncan is having the worst year of his career. It really is not close and its not complicated.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Being "wise" ties in with being a "good/better" player.

That holds true with me in the Love vs. Duncan case, and the Smith vs. McGrady case.

If we are talking about games of one-on-one, your guys are going to win.

If we are talking about games of 5-on-5, and I picked my guys and you picked yours (assuming the other 4 guys are clones), my team is going to win more often than not.

That^ is truth.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

And give it a rest with this Duncan has no upside/Duncan has little affect on the Spurs' success.

That is pure bologna.

 

[houheffna]

And give it a rest with this Duncan has no upside/Duncan has little affect on the Spurs' success.

That is pure bologna.

Dude, put words in someone else' mouth, not mines. I never said Duncan had little affect on the Spurs success.

Furthermore, you are now saying Duncan was picked over Love because he is wiser? GTFOH!!!! Why do you think other people on this forum are just stupid and will accept whatever you say? Ridiculous...

Being a smarter player is only a fraction of the reasoning behind who is better. I believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that Rose is a better player than Nash. However, I believe Nash is smarter. If Nash was playing for Orlando, you would justify picking Nash over Rose because Nash is wiser? Really? That's just plain stupid. You pick Rose because he is having a better year at the position. It wouldn't matter if Rose's team was 3rd in the conference or 3rd from the bottom. If he puts up 24ppg and 8 assists. He deserves to be there. I feel the same way about Love over Duncan.

 

[Steve Breakfast Styleham]

STOP!

Stop it this once EVERY LAST ONE OF YOU!

Silence!

We are men for crying out loud so it's high time you start acting like men.

Can't we lay aside our petty differences regarding Tim Duncan and Kevin Love...and start exercising respect and LOVE for our fellow man?

Life is too short for arguing about such insignificant matters!

Can't we all just agree with my original point that today, Kevin Love is more deserving of the All-Star Team than a 35 year old 13 points a game Tim Duncan?

Can we all agree on that already and move on to something better?

I find it outrageous that you would disagree with this!

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Dude, you're fishing for other examples that don't parallel what we're talking about.

Nash is a liability on defense. Rose is not. Nash is smarter. But Rose is also smart. And to top that off, Rose can jump right over Nash's head.

See the difference?

Love is pretty useless on defense. Duncan has all of the tricks up his sleeves. Like all old people, he has his good and bad days. But his good days can be pretty great. Often times, he looks close to the Timmy of old. And even on his bad days, the guy rarely makes mistakes. He might have a bad shooting night and still playing lock-down defense.

Shooting: Love>Duncan (not dominant in this category)
Post Scoring: Duncan>Love
Offensive Rebounds: Love>Duncan
Defensive Rebounds: Love>Duncan
Passing: Duncan>Love
Interior Defense: **a big one**: Duncan>Love (and it's ugly)

 

[houheffna]

STOP!

Stop it this once EVERY LAST ONE OF YOU!

Silence!

We are men for crying out loud so it's high time you start acting like men.

Can't we lay aside our petty differences regarding Tim Duncan and Kevin Love...and start exercising respect and LOVE for our fellow man?

Life is too short for arguing about such insignificant matters!

Can't we all just agree with my original point that today, Kevin Love is more deserving of the All-Star Team than a 35 year old 13 points a game Tim Duncan?

Can we all agree on that?

Steve my ass...you are the same dude...

 

[Glide2keva]

Kevin Love was named to the team, he deserved it. End of story.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Kevin Love was named to the team, he deserved it. End of story.

This. And I even said Love was deserving. All I said to cause this backlash was saying Duncan deserved it more this season, which I still believe he does.

 

[Diddy1122]

Duncan deserved to be an All-Star even less than Joe Johnson did. If anything Parker should've made it. And I love Duncan. But I could name atleast 5 players off the top of my head who got snubbed who are outplaying him this year.

The only selection I am not happy with is Joe Johnson. That spot should be Luol Deng's. Johnson had a good January but he'd been playing like ass for the 2 months prior. Deng is having his best overall season, constantly stepping up whenever it's asked of him, guarding mutiple positions with remarkable effectiveness, hustling, & most importantly, & I pray I don't jinx anything, playing team high in minutes & not missing a single start. I love Boozer & what he's done so far but he missed to much time. Fans really need to start recognizing that our record would be nowhere near as good without the steady presence of Deng in the lineup.

 

[houheffna]

Duncan deserved to be an All-Star even less than Joe Johnson did. If anything Parker should've made it. And I love Duncan. But I could name atleast 5 players off the top of my head who got snubbed who are outplaying him this year.

The only selection I am not happy with is Joe Johnson. That spot should be Luol Deng's. Johnson had a good January but he'd been playing like ass for the 2 months prior. Deng is having his best overall season, constantly stepping up whenever it's asked of him, guarding mutiple positions with remarkable effectiveness, hustling, & most importantly, & I pray I don't jinx anything, playing team high in minutes & not missing a single start. I love Boozer & what he's done so far but he missed to much time. Fans really need to start recognizing that our record would be nowhere near as good without the steady presence of Deng in the lineup.

that is the word I was looking for...."outplaying". To think Duncan is playing better than Love is absolute craziness. Love is averaging almost 10 points more per game and 6 rebounds more a game.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

hell i'm a spurs fan and i dont think..I KNOW that Duncan didn't deserve to be in the All Star Game...

his stats are seriously declining...i mean yes the Spurs are great...and whether or not your team is performing well is factored into All Star criteria....still....his numbers are nowhere close to all star....makes me believe that maybe All Stars shouldn't be voted by the fans?

As said earlier in this thread, Boozer has put up All Star worthy stats for sure and i would love for him to be selected, but he has missed quite a bit of time...

Deng:17.8 ppg,6.2 rpg,2.5 apg, 45.4% fg PER 15.2
Johnson:20.6 ppg,4.2 rpg,5.5 apg, 45 % fg PER 19.3

numbers are close...although Deng is playing on the better team..and Johnson didn't start turning it on until later in the year....part of it is the fact that Johnson has been consistently a great player...atleast in the last couple of years....and well regarded as an All Star while Deng has had injury issues and other struggles...although this year i do think he has played very well...

meh i'd like Deng and Boozer to be All Stars...but it doesn't look like it's happening...just move on...whether or not Deng and Boozer are "All Stars" doesn't change the fact that they are both great players and play vital roles for a great Bulls team

 

[Steve Breakfast Styleham]

I don't know what you speak of. What can I tell ya buddy it runs in the family!

You should see Breakfast-Styleham family reunions.

You wanna tag along on the next one, Hou?

Steve my ass...you are the same dude...

 

[Steve Breakfast Styleham]

I can finally die in peace now.

Big Steve is no longer pissed. I'm just going to give out free hugs for the rest of the day.

Kevin Love was named to the team, he deserved it. End of story.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

I can see why all the people are saying that Tony Parker deserves it more than Tim Duncan, but I still don't believe Kevin Love deserves it over either one. He is putting up ridiculous per-game stats but he is still being overrated by the fans. LaMarcus Aldridge is also easily a better complete PF than Love.

If I had to rank the top 20 or so best players in the West (essentially who I would want out on the floor given the opportunity):

1. Durant
2. Bryant
3. Paul
4. Williams
5. Anthony
6. Griffin
7. Nowitzki
8. P. Gasol
9. Ginobili
10. Westbrook
11. Parker
12. Duncan
13. Aldridge
14. Nash
15. ***
16. Love
17. Odom
18. West
19. Scola
20. E. Gordon

 

[pinkizdead]

eric gordon and *** need to switch spots.