Around the NBA (Non-Bulls) Thread - 2023-2024 Season

[clonetrooper264]

Bucks quickly hire Doc Rivers to ensure a 2nd round exit

 

[BNB]

Man, the NBA is turning into a joke haha. Every night someone is putting up video game numbers.

NBA pundits say that defense is better than ever, it's just that guys are more talented than ever. Yeah right. Most of these dudes don't give a shit about defense, especially in the regular season.

 

[knoxville7]

The rules don’t allow for much defense

 

[Enasic]

Man, the NBA is turning into a joke haha. Every night someone is putting up video game numbers.

NBA pundits say that defense is better than ever, it's just that guys are more talented than ever. Yeah right. Most of these dudes don't give a shit about defense, especially in the regular season.

They are more talented than ever as a whole, though. From top to bottom, by far more talent and athleticism/strength/size combo than ever.

So when you have that, and are also allowed to travel/carry on offense because the league decided to say **** fundamentals…and also can’t touch anyone on defense, this is what happens.

 

[knoxville7]

They are more talented than ever as a whole, though. From top to bottom, by far more talent and athleticism/strength/size combo than ever.

So when you have that, and are also allowed to travel/carry on offense because the league decided to say **** fundamentals…and also can’t touch anyone on defense, this is what happens.

I think the athleticism has been a bit of a product of those very rule changes

Guys don’t feel the need to bulk up to handle the rigor of an 82 game season to handle the physical style of basketball from the 90’s and before.

The rule changes have ruined the NBA either way

 

[Axl Rose]

I will say this inflated scoring is making Kobe's 81 look even more phenomenal. No one has reached it yet, and Kobe pulled that off in 2006 when the pace was much slower and grindy.

 

[clonetrooper264]

I will say this inflated scoring is making Kobe's 81 look even more phenomenal. No one has reached it yet, and Kobe pulled that off in 2006 when the pace was much slower and grindy.

I agree with this, in today's game where 3pt rate is highest it has ever been and team offensive ratings and pace as high as they've ever been, the fact that no one has gotten to Kobe's 81 mark is pretty telling of just how impressive it was for his era.

That said, this narrative that no one in the NBA plays defense anymore is a lazy take imo. Is it true from some players and teams, absolutely. But this sweeping narrative of no one playing any defense and just letting players score because they don't care is simply untrue. Effort is there, though often results might not be. The spacing today is way different than it was 10 years ago even and it makes a pretty significant difference.

 

[clonetrooper264]

JJ Redick has a great breakdown of why offenses today are more and more potent. The first 11:30 of this video has the breakdown with the data and comparison to previous eras. It won't satisfy everyone still, but to me it's a great high level explanation

 

[knoxville7]

I agree with this, in today's game where 3pt rate is highest it has ever been and team offensive ratings and pace as high as they've ever been, the fact that no one has gotten to Kobe's 81 mark is pretty telling of just how impressive it was for his era.

That said, this narrative that no one in the NBA plays defense anymore is a lazy take imo. Is it true from some players and teams, absolutely. But this sweeping narrative of no one playing any defense and just letting players score because they don't care is simply untrue. Effort is there, though often results might not be. The spacing today is way different than it was 10 years ago even and it makes a pretty significant difference.

rule changes, bruh

 

[clonetrooper264]

rule changes, bruh

I mean yeah compared to the 90s there's definitely been rule changes to favor the offense, but the spacing and shot profiles is still happening and again my point is that players today aren't just giving up on defense

 

[knoxville7]

I mean yeah compared to the 90s there's definitely been rule changes to favor the offense, but the spacing and shot profiles is still happening and again my point is that players today aren't just giving up on defense

the spacing and shot profiles are a result of the rule changes. guys wouldnt be jacking 8+ 3's a game if defenders were allowed to get all up in them

 

[clonetrooper264]

the spacing and shot profiles are a result of the rule changes. guys wouldnt be jacking 8+ 3's a game if defenders were allowed to get all up in them

Like hand checking? Or are you saying defenders should just be able to be all up in the shooter's space?

 

[Crystallas]

....be all up in the shooter's space?

BINGO

 

[clonetrooper264]

BINGO

That's a fair assessment if so. 20 years ago you could basically land under a shooter, but as long as no body contact it wasn't a foul. Definitely I could see 3PA being less if every time you took a jumper you can to worry about coming down on someone's foot.

That being said, as a casual basketball player myself, I'd be pissed if people were basically undercutting me every time I took a jumper. I imagine much more so for the pros. It's just a danger to your ankles and such. So I'm ok with this rule change.

There is also something to be said about how over time the NBA has more and more rewarded offensive players for initiating contact, probably culminating in those ridiculous scenarios like the rip through foul where the defender is effectively helpless to contest on the perimeter because the offensive player could just throw their arms into theirs and get a foul. Though they've gone back on that now, similar to the Reggie Miller leg kick foul.

I still maintain my original point that players are still putting forth defensive effort...certainly they are not able to defend like players used to be able to due to certain rule changes, but it's not like every game is like the modern All Star game where players are actively not playing defense.

 

[Crystallas]

We had a great divide at some point, you can play Euro style or American style, or Chinese style(but that's not going to happen in the NBA, so let's omit).

And Euro style won, for no better reason than a claim that it was to limit injuries. But any argument stating limiting injuries is a farce because that is a two party deal in basketball. The defender also risks injuries and the person of offense can hurt the defender just as much. It's basically a way to give a player artificially open shots more often.

This will continue to evolve, and we will see 4v4 on on the arc so much more often, the next phase will have so many players cutting to the hoop hard, and that will result in even more injuries. If the pattern continues, the only players worth signing will need to be 6'8" and above.

 

[knoxville7]

We had a great divide at some point, you can play Euro style or American style, or Chinese style(but that's not going to happen in the NBA, so let's omit).

And Euro style won, for no better reason than a claim that it was to limit injuries. But any argument stating limiting injuries is a farce because that is a two party deal in basketball. The defender also risks injuries and the person of offense can hurt the defender just as much. It's basically a way to give a player artificially open shots more often.

This will continue to evolve, and we will see 4v4 on on the arc so much more often, the next phase will have so many players cutting to the hoop hard, and that will result in even more injuries. If the pattern continues, the only players worth signing will need to be 6'8" and above.

injuries seem to be worse today than in the 90's and 80's too, so if thats the reasoning they give...it hasnt helped any.

reality is, the NBA wanted offense and shooting to increase because they felt it would be good for viewership

 

[clonetrooper264]

injuries seem to be worse today than in the 90's and 80's too, so if thats the reasoning they give...it hasnt helped any.

reality is, the NBA wanted offense and shooting to increase because they felt it would be good for viewership

Well...those mid 2000s days were pretty rough to watch, ain't gonna lie.

 

[clonetrooper264]

injuries seem to be worse today than in the 90's and 80's too, so if thats the reasoning they give...it hasnt helped any.

reality is, the NBA wanted offense and shooting to increase because they felt it would be good for viewership

Well...those mid 2000s days were pretty rough to watch, ain't gonna lie.

 

[Enasic]

What the NFL crushing the NBA on T.V. means for basketball fans ... eventually

Less success on television likely means less free access.

ziller.substack.com

Overall, I think the nba product is pretty terrible. Not interesting…not entertaining and the numbers seem to support that. I remember talking to friends/family/strangers about the nba back in the day with a good level of interest. These days, can’t remember the last person in real life who has one iota of interest. It’s almost taboo to talk about lol…kudos to the fans still out there, but they’re a dying breed. It’s just an awful product

 

[Diehardfan]

What the NFL crushing the NBA on T.V. means for basketball fans ... eventually

Less success on television likely means less free access.

ziller.substack.com

Overall, I think the nba product is pretty terrible. Not interesting…not entertaining and the numbers seem to support that. I remember talking to friends/family/strangers about the nba back in the day with a good level of interest. These days, can’t remember the last person in real life who has one iota of interest. It’s almost taboo to talk about lol…kudos to the fans still out there, but they’re a dying breed. It’s just an awful product

Agreed. I pretty much but the brakes on NBA entertainment a few years ago. Nothing to do with winning or losing but the rule changes that someone above brought up. Uncontested dunks and layups, no one takes a charge (wouldn't get the call if they did) and a barrage of 3 point shots that did nothing more than cheapen one of the best additions to NBA play back in the 80's. These crazy rules haven't improved the game at all...it's turned league games into All-Star shoot outs.