At what point does Rose overtake Pippen?

[CODE_BLUE56]

Rose avg 25 ppg on 45% shooting. With a usage% of 32. Pippen avg 22 on 49% with a usage of 27%.

there's a reason rose uses the ball and also is more aggressive offensively than pippen..partly because he's the PG and because the coaching staff wants rose to dominate offensively because he is that kind of player that dominates the ball and makes play offensively

now pippen was a great option offensively..but even without jordan he wasnt designated to completely dominate on offense like rose because he wasnt that kind of player

is pippen more efficient..ya he's a little more efficient..but that doesnt mean he's a better scorer

In their best seasons. Also pippen avg 6 assist passing to players that couldn't score like the players rose passed to. Rose avg 8 assists passing to two guys capable of scoring 20 ppg (boozer and deng) and another guy (noah) that avg 13 ppg. You don't think that pippen in roses position avgs 8-9 assists with more offensive firepower?

noah and boozer were injury riddled and half of the time rose was not passing to them...deng is a good option but he still has some issues with handle..neither boozer nor deng are 20 PPG scorers(atleast this season)..

and lets not act like pippen didnt have some good players on his team..he had a young kukoc,horace grant and bj armstrong(bj and horace were all stars)

as a unit, the pieces around pippen were better options offensively(think shooting,the struggles the bulls had this year against teams that pack it in because of 3 point shooting woes)...the 10-11 bulls was a good team..but their overwhelming strength was defense

anywho,there's a reason rose won MVP this year....because he was able to carry the bulls with injuries into having a great season...and quite a bit of that came from his ability to drive and score in the paint as well as being able to go outside as well and score

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

See how you blow stuff out of proportion? I never said or implied rose couldn't play in the pre-handckeck era. I said it helps his ability to drive to the basket. Not saying he couldn't get there with the hand check. But the rules do help him. But definately not make him.

Rose avg 25 ppg on 45% shooting. With a usage% of 32. Pippen avg 22 on 49% with a usage of 27%. In their best seasons. Also pippen avg 6 assist passing to players that couldn't score like the players rose passed to. Rose avg 8 assists passing to two guys capable of scoring 20 ppg (boozer and deng) and another guy (noah) that avg 13 ppg. You don't think that pippen in roses position avgs 8-9 assists with more offensive firepower?

I think we are just arguing around in circles now because the points each of us are bringing up in rebuttal aren't contradicting the previous points.

Yes, Rose was helped by the hand-check rules being installed. But he still would be able to get to the basket nearly at will and finish around the rim.

Look at it this way. Pippen had all of the aspect you would want in an offensive player. A decent jump-shooter from all over the half-court. A great transition scorer and passer. A very good low and high post player. But he really could not score at will look Rose would be able to (even in Pippen's era).

I also consider Rose to be the better shooter and passer. But what sets them apart, to me, is the ability for Rose to always make the defense need to account for his driving ability and finishing ability. Pippen could never score at will. Rose can at times.

Pippen definitely had better options to pass to than Rose did.

Let's not even bring up when Pippen had Jordan. Let's stick strictly to that '94 season. Grant was a much better scoring option than Boozer was. And Boozer missed a lot of games to top that off. Kukoc has always been as good or better of an offensive option as Luol Deng. B.J. Armstrong was a great option as well. This isn't even close.

 

[houheffna]

Actually sorry. I meant the 2000-01 L.A. Lakers. Not the 1999-00 Lakers.

2001. 2002, 1951, 1988, 1804....doesn't matter...

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

2001. 2002, 1951, 1988, 1804....doesn't matter...

They could have won the whole thing in '01. Kobe wasn't THAT amazing of a player yet. Jones could have been enough.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

They could have won the whole thing in '01. Kobe wasn't THAT amazing of a player yet. Jones could have been enough.

as much as i dislike kobe..i disagree a little on this..kobe definitely played a role on that 3 peat..

but i think we can all agree that shaq was,by far, the most important player on that team

 

[Uman85]

Scottie Pippen is the greatest fucking player ever.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Scottie Pippen is the greatest fucking player ever.

Naw I think when it comes to bed performance Delonte West beats him.


:yeah:

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Naw I think when it comes to bed performance Delonte West beats him.


:yeah:

lol he banged lebron's mom

:nothanks:

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

I'm very glad you made that point because its been on my mind reading this thread..Pippen was the type of player who's main concern was helping his team win and not personal stats..Pippen was more focused in getting his teammates involved in scoring with possibly a more pointguards mentality...Pippen new as well as anyone that jordan was the number one scoring option...So why in the hell would pippen try and score more....Now if Rose had Jordan on his team do you guys actually think that he would score as much????HELL to the NO!!!!!..Has it occured to y'all that maybe Rose didn't have a choice but to score considering that he doesn't have that many dependable scoring options other than mainly jumpshooters which explians why he went to the basket so much...If Pippen in his prime was on this currant bulls roster, I belive Pip would be one of the top scorers in the league...Pip would be the NBAs Lebron James with a brain....Pippen rarely scored under 20 points in a game with or without Jordan up until he was over the hill...Unselfishness was why Pippens scoring average wasn't as high as Rose...Put Rose on the Jordan teams and I would bet his average is loweer than Pips....

*laughs* at this idea that Pippen tried to get everybody involved more than Rose does. First off, that is not anywhere close to true. And secondly, Pippen had JORDAN as a teammate. Of course he is a 'pass-first' guy.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

and lets make something clear. Pippen could back down Rose all day but he cannot consistently make that jump-hook shot.

 

[BMR31]

lol he banged lebron's mom

:nothanks:

LOL have you seen Lebrons mom. I REALLY doubt he banged her.:nervous:

 

[houheffna]

as much as i dislike kobe..i disagree a little on this..kobe definitely played a role on that 3 peat..

but i think we can all agree that shaq was,by far, the most important player on that team

I can't agree with that one...Kobe was the closer, so I am not going to say Shaq was by far the most important of those title teams.

 

[eternityw]

and lets make something clear. Pippen could back down Rose all day but he cannot consistently make that jump-hook shot.

Pip can make jump-hook shot with right hand and left all day long )

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Pip can make jump-hook shot with right hand and left all day long )

What shot is going to go in more often... a jump hook over Rose or a easy lay-up exploding by Pippen?

 

[eternityw]

What shot is going to go in more often... a jump hook over Rose or a easy lay-up exploding by Pippen?

You mean Rose exploding by Pippen?
Pippen can defend lay-ups even if Rose has a great speed. It depends on defense position that player in, pip is master of defense so he can read derrick offensive moves. of course it will be close game by pip and rose but i am choosing pip as the winner.

 

[BMR31]

You mean Rose exploding by Pippen?
Pippen can defend lay-ups even if Rose has a great speed. It depends on defense position that player in, pip is master of defense so he can read derrick offensive moves. of course it will be close game by pip and rose but i am choosing pip as the winner.

Well that depends. Are you choosing Pip in his prime vs Rose of today? Then yes i think Pip wins. If they played eachother at age 22, it wouldnt be close. Rose would kill him.

 

[houheffna]

*laughs* at this idea that Pippen tried to get everybody involved more than Rose does. First off, that is not anywhere close to true. And secondly, Pippen had JORDAN as a teammate. Of course he is a 'pass-first' guy.

I have to agree, you are talking about a guy in Rose, that was forced into being the number 1 option. Nobody knows the story of Rose in the championship game in high school? He has always been selfless, he had to learn to be selfish. Now I have recently criticized him for at times having a "Madison Avenue" mindset in trying to take over games needlessly...and Pippen's job was to set up the triangle...the system would run itself, lets quit acting as if he was Magic or Isiah out there.

But I am going to just point out one thing....can anyone name 1 game that pops into their head from Scottie Pippen that rivals Rose's FIRST PLAYOFF GAME? Anybody?

And to say that if a guy takes more shots he scores more points is elementary thinking. For some guys scoring comes easier than it does for others. I think Scottie knew his limitations better than some of his fans do.

 

[brett05]

Not to start anything but I don't remember. Wasnt Scottie always a defensive stud?

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

You mean Rose exploding by Pippen?
Pippen can defend lay-ups even if Rose has a great speed. It depends on defense position that player in, pip is master of defense so he can read derrick offensive moves. of course it will be close game by pip and rose but i am choosing pip as the winner.

Well I personally think that is ridiculous because nobody can defend Rose one on one. Pippen would need to guard Rose at least three steps in front of him just in order to have a chance in HELL of meeting him in time to contest his shot at the rim. Rose would have the open shot all day long. But what is going to stop Rose from pounding the ball in the lane and send Pippen flying?? Rose sends gets like Roy Hibbert flying when Rose is fouled by THEM! Rose is too big, too strong, too fast, too good. Stacey King isn't lying. Master the "master of defense" can't do a damn thing to stop Rose one-on-one. It requires weak-side help.

 

[brett05]

Rose is too big? Maybe for kids rides. Too Strong? He should shower. Now come on. Those statements are insane for Rose