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And who was the best player on that Rockets team again? A younger Pippen or an older Barkley? Answer: Barkley.
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I understand what you are saying but, at the same time, Pippen was no Tim Duncan. He needed a secondary and third very good defensive player for his team to be successful on that end of the floor. And he had quite a few.
It is a fair knock on Barkley that he wasn't as good defensively as he needed to be because he didn't have great defensive players as teammates. But still... imagine Pippen and Barkley on the same team. Barkley would be doing to bulk of the work. He was a more consistent open jump-shooter, a great post-up scorer, and had some point guard skills- not like Scottie but he still had them. He would also be getting all of the rebounds. Pippen's role would be to play off of Barkley when Chuck drew double teams. And to guard the opposing team's best perimeter scorer.
That's why I say Barkley is better than Pippen. Pippen definitely holds his own and has his upside. But you cannot as easily build a championship team around Pippen as you could Barkley.
scottiepippen1994
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Uhhh, now that was the worst statement on this thread yet...Barkley was not the better player, and guess what, Pippen was already almost mid 30s with a bad back when he signed with the Rockets....And he still was better........Barkley was just about personal stats and cracking jokes while whining to the refs complaining all the time, while Pippen was about winning....You big Dummy!!!!!!!
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMTrthePKU0]You big dummy - YouTube[/ame]
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No matter what Scottie Pippen claims, Barkley was the best player on the team when he got there in 1996. It was actually Barkley who was frustrated at Olajuwon and Drexler because they did not seem motivated enough to win because they both already won (a) championship(s) back in '94 and '95. Plus, both players were on the downside of their career. Barkley was too but he still took that team over and was consistently their best player. He demanded the ball and took over the 1st option of the team.
Anyone who is good enough to be the first scoring option on the 1992 Dream Team deserves a hell of a lot of respect. Barkley was that guy.
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Name-calling again. Yes I am the dumby when you clearly never watched the late 90's Rockets team play ball. Barkley was the emotional and floor leader of that team. And it was still the case when Scottie Pippen played a season their after his last one with the Bulls. Barkley was easily a better player than Scottie Pippen at that point. Pippen was just frustrated that Barkley was not as good as Jordan.
By the way, Barkley was even OLDER than Pippen at that point and also passed his prime. You contradict your own dumbass logic.
97Bulls
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Having good defensive teammates have nothing to do with whether or not a player should be a good defender. That barkleys fault and his alone.
And pippen and barkley on the same team doesn't constitute barkley doing most of the work. Barkely would score more or be the 1st option sure along with getting a good prtion of rebounds. But pippen would run the offense, and be the defensive leader. As well as score and rebound. Notice how I addressed both offense and defense. The fact that you only promote the 2 player offensive role only shows your biased view of offense over defense.
I wouldn't. Pick barkley over pippen to build a team around. Pippen can pick make up for so many deficiencies on a baskeball team. Barkley not so much.
scottiepippen1994
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Barkley was frusturated with Drexler and Olojuwon too???LoL...That's. Barkley alright, always complaining and bitching...And when Pippen joined the team and spoke up and told Barkley about himself, he could swallow the taste of his own medicine..Any elite player would of appreciated Pippen criticizm and took the proper steps to fix there problem...Barkley was too hardheaded to take Pippen and his championship experianced advice....That's why Barkleys fingers are naked......And as far as dreamteams, Pippen was on 2....
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Pippen wasn't a domineering defensive presence though. He wasn't going to affect the game like a guy like Olajuwon, Mutombo, Ben Wallace, Dwight Howard, David Robinson, Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan, or Patrick Ewing... or even Shaq could. Scottie was as good of a perimeter defender in NBA history but he needed a secondary defender along the perimeter and a guy to defend the post for his team to be a good team defensively. All those teams needed were a Dwight Howard type of guy and their team would automatically be a force on defense.
And you are forgetting all about rebounding. Barkley was one of the best rebounders in the history of the game. His rebounding and scoring was a lot better than Pippen's. And you say Pippen ran the offense for that Rockets' team... in 1999, Barkley had the ball in his hands even more than Pippen. It is evident even from the statistics because I bet you that Barkley averaged almost as many assists as well as more points than Scottie per-game.
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You know who else complained and bitched? Nearly every great player...ever!
You are a hypocrite. Pippen bitched and you said it yourself. Why hold Barkley to a higher standard than your almighty Pippen? Pippen also didn't enter a game when a play was drawn up for Kukoc... that sounds like bitching to me.
Jordan bitched to the referees as much as anybody did back then. He also was a dick to his teammates. I don't see you criticizing him.
And you are pulling all of that stuff out of your ass.
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PS- Barkley was on two Olympic teams as well. He teamed with Pippen on both and had a more pivotal role than Pippen too.
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My favorite teams
As much as I enjoy reading the banter on this I must ask...why does everything always turn into a Scottie Pippen argument? Can't we all just get along?
Nah...that'd be no fun.
Nah...that'd be no fun.
scottiepippen1994
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As much as I enjoy reading the banter on this I must ask...why does everything always turn into a Scottie Pippen argument? Can't we all just get along?
Nah...that'd be no fun.
I agree with you...I'm not the one that keeps bringing up Pippen, only the Pippenhaters do that..I just defend Pippen and the injustice that a large number of forum members are commiting....Especially Ramitherocketsfan....That's right I call him Rockets fan....You would think he would love Pippen for joining and giving the rockets a chance...Too bad his idol Barkely ruined that opportunity...Pippen helped lead the Blazers all the way to the western conferance finals all the way to the 7th game when he left Rami's beloved Rockets...
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Because people on here treat one of the Bulls greatest players like he was nothing more than an average player and could easily be replaced by any other player.As much as I enjoy reading the banter on this I must ask...why does everything always turn into a Scottie Pippen argument? Can't we all just get along?
Nah...that'd be no fun.
That's just ridiculous.
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Nobody in their right mind would say Pippen was just an average player. Neither I or Houheffna ever did that.
scottiepippen1994
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97Bulls
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Id submit to you that he was a dominating defensive presence. Case and point. 1995. The bulls were the NUMBER 2 ranked defense in the league. Pippen lead the league in defensive efficiency, and in stls. And was all nba 1st team defense. He lead his team in rebounds and blocks. He did this with a starting five that consisted of:
Armstrong who wasn't much of a defender
Myers who was decent. But more of a hustler than anything else
Himself
Larry krystowaik,dickie simpkins, corie blount, who all were shitty
Longley who was solid
Kukoc who was shitty
Kerr, shitty
And he had that team above 500 (34-30) on pace for 44 wins before jordan came back. He lead the bulls in every category. Something thaats only been done two other times in the history of the league both by centers. Id go as far to say that the bulls 95 was pippen vs the league.
Why he didn't win the dpoy award is beyond me.
I know you minimalize pippens defense, but why don't you try to refute this.
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In order to get along on this site, you have to just blindly agree with the majority. Otherwise, you're ostracized for having your own opinion.
So, you have to agree that:
1. lebronze is the best player ever to step foot on a basketball court
2. Scottie Pippen was easily replaceable
3. Every other great player is greater than the Bulls great players.
4. hou is always right
5. being an objective fan (oxymoron) is better than being an actual fan.
Going against these doctrines will result in nothing but attacks, name calling and examples of why you're so wrong (even when you're absolutely right)
So, you have to agree that:
1. lebronze is the best player ever to step foot on a basketball court
2. Scottie Pippen was easily replaceable
3. Every other great player is greater than the Bulls great players.
4. hou is always right
5. being an objective fan (oxymoron) is better than being an actual fan.
Going against these doctrines will result in nothing but attacks, name calling and examples of why you're so wrong (even when you're absolutely right)
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You don't have to say the words out-right, but the implications are all over the place.
Saying things like replace Scottie with Kendall Gill and they still win multiple titles? Come on man.
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Horace Grant was a very good low-post defender and so was Bill Wennington and Luc Longley. Myers was a very solid defender himself. And defensive efficiency is a horrible measure of a players' defensive ability. Carlos Boozer was #6 in that stat this past season. The Knicks and Rockets were also much better defensive teams than the Bulls that season. The Spurs were easily better too.
And leading the NBA in steals isn't what made Pippen a GREAT defensive player. He was great because of his ability to use his length to contest every shot and pass. The only positions he couldn't consistently defend were center and point guard. But he really could potentially guard all five positions on the floor against some teams. Steals don't make you a great defender. Look at Larry Hughes and Monta Ellis for example.
But, again, he wasn't as long or could get as high up as those great defensive bigs that I just mentioned. Pippen needed all the help he could get on that end of the floor. He was an amazing wing defender. But he couldn't shut down literally any player... that claim has been made here and that is completely false.
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Don't even bother with this. They will never give him full credit.
No, they were playing well because they we practicing with Jordan since late January, not because of anything Pippen did. Nevermind the fact that he was leading his whole TEAM in every statistical category. They NEVER bring that up.
Objectively, he didn't deserve it. Other players had better cases. I mean, leading your team in rebounds, blocks, steals, def eff. etc doesn't mean anything really.
There's nothing to refute, Scottie Pippen is the most overrated player of all time.
/sarcasm.
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