At what point does Rose overtake Pippen?

[RamiTheBullsFan]

You don't have to say the words out-right, but the implications are all over the place.

Saying things like replace Scottie with Kendall Gill and they still win multiple titles? Come on man.

Scottie Pippen was the only great SF of the 90's before Grant Hill arrived. There is no better piece of the puzzle that could have helped the Bulls more.

But are you trying to tell me that a line-up of:

Paxson/Armstrong
Gill
Jordan
Grant
Cartwight/Purdue

and

Harper/Kerr/Brown
Jordan
Gill/Kukoc
Rodman
Longley/Wennington

wouldn't have won multiple titles?!

 

[Glide2keva]

Scottie Pippen was the only great SF of the 90's before Grant Hill arrived. There is no better piece of the puzzle that could have helped the Bulls more.

But are you trying to tell me that a line-up of:

Paxson/Armstrong
Gill
Jordan
Grant
Cartwight/Purdue

and

Harper/Kerr/Brown
Jordan
Gill/Kukoc
Rodman
Longley/Wennington

wouldn't have won multiple titles?!

You are seriously overrating Kendall Gill, a guy who never won on any level. And I like KG.

And yes I'm telling you that.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Don't even bother with this. They will never give him full credit.

No, they were playing well because they we practicing with Jordan since late January, not because of anything Pippen did. Nevermind the fact that he was leading his whole TEAM in every statistical category. They NEVER bring that up.

Objectively, he didn't deserve it. Other players had better cases. I mean, leading your team in rebounds, blocks, steals, def eff. etc doesn't mean anything really.




There's nothing to refute, Scottie Pippen is the most overrated player of all time.

/sarcasm.

Your sarcasm is unfounded.

Do you know who else lead their respective teams in points/rebounds/blocks that season? Olajuwon and Robinson. And do you know who won more games than the Bulls in 1994? Olajuwon's team and Robinson's team.

You are just pulling stuff out of nowhere now. Pippen is not the most overrated player of all-time. He is overrated by a lot of Bulls' fans but that's where it ends. He is probably largely underrated.

 

[DCguy]

Scottie Pippen was the only great SF of the 90's before Grant Hill arrived. There is no better piece of the puzzle that could have helped the Bulls more.

But are you trying to tell me that a line-up of:

Paxson/Armstrong
Gill
Jordan
Grant
Cartwight/Purdue

and

Harper/Kerr/Brown
Jordan
Gill/Kukoc
Rodman
Longley/Wennington

wouldn't have won multiple titles?!

I can see them being a playoff team....but I can't be so confident as to say winning a title, maybe though.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

You are seriously overrating Kendall Gill, a guy who never won on any level. And I like KG.

And yes I'm telling you that.

I am not overrating Kendall Gill. It seems like you are underrating the greatest player in the history of planet Earth-

Michael Jordan.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

I can see them being a playoff team....but I can't be so confident as to say winning a title, maybe though.

Those early teams would have trouble in 1992 and 1993. But every other year... I don't see anybody stopping the Bulls. Maybe 1998... MAYBE.

 

[houheffna]

Then you can do as you please with that person. I'm just saying don't jump to conclusions with other people.

I no clue what you are talking about right now...

 

[houheffna]

Don't forget that Barkley had Olajuwon and Pippen and still came up short..and you want to know why??? Its called poor attitude..He was too busy fighting with his teammates instead of his opponants......He's a better tnt narrator than he was a player...

This is unbelievable...Olajuwan was how old? Barkley was how old at that point? Give me a damn break...did I just read where someone compared Barkley to Carlos Boozer?

My God that's insanity....

 

[97Bulls]

Horace Grant was a very good low-post defender and so was Bill Wennington and Luc Longley. Myers was a very solid defender himself. And defensive efficiency is a horrible measure of a players' defensive ability. Carlos Boozer was #6 in that stat this past season. The Knicks and Rockets were also much better defensive teams than the Bulls that season. The Spurs were easily better too.

And leading the NBA in steals isn't what made Pippen a GREAT defensive player. He was great because of his ability to use his length to contest every shot and pass. The only positions he couldn't consistently defend were center and point guard. But he really could potentially guard all five positions on the floor against some teams. Steals don't make you a great defender. Look at Larry Hughes and Monta Ellis for example.

But, again, he wasn't as long or could get as high up as those great defensive bigs that I just mentioned. Pippen needed all the help he could get on that end of the floor. He was an amazing wing defender. But he couldn't shut down literally any player... that claim has been made here and that is completely false.

Grant wasn't a bull in 95 rami. Are you sure your a bulls fan?

And let's clear up this definsive efficiency rating/carlos boozer anlogy. You know why boozer rating is high? Cuz boozer never plays the oppositons best defender. Look at the heat series. He guarded anthony most of the time. Noah normally draws the big assignments. So natuarally, boozer would have a high defense rating.

Think of it like this. Dennis rodman lead the leagu in fg%. Does this mean he was the best shooter in the league that year or was it due to him only taking wide open dunks and layups?

 

[houheffna]

The question was asked...the answer by most is Rose is not at this time the 2nd best player...he is a few years away. The Barkley stuff is completely asinine. And its hilarious to me how people overrate Pippen and underrate players who were even better than Pippen 20 years ago.


These things I know...

1. Pippen was a great player...one of the great players of the 1990's
2. There were other players who didn't win titles, who were better players. Malone, Barkley and Robinson to name a few.
3. Citing a player's limitations does not mean that a person doesn't think they are great. Pippen was not a great offensive player. He was a poor free throw shooter with an average jump shot. To say that Rose right now is a better player offensively is not at all a stretch...if he wasn't, why would the question gain any traction at all?
4. The whole "I don't know what I am talking about so I am going to make accusations using exaggerated phrases like 'you think Scottie is average'" crap is just that...crap.

 

[97Bulls]

This is unbelievable...Olajuwan was how old? Barkley was how old at that point? Give me a damn break...did I just read where someone compared Barkley to Carlos Boozer?

My God that's insanity....

But you fault 35 year old pippen for not leading the blazers to a championship

 

[houheffna]

But you fault 35 year old pippen for not leading the blazers to a championship

He was part of the choke job in game 7...definitely...but I don't remember making him the sole blame for the Blazers...again, putting words in my mouth...Pippen wasn't the best player on that team.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

But you fault 35 year old pippen for not leading the blazers to a championship

And at 35, he almost did..if not for that devistating fourth quarter in game 7 against the Lakers, he would of..And pippen was the leader of that Blazers team without even scoring that much at all..

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

the second i saw pippen mentioned in some sort of argumentative question

i knew this was going to be interesting

dont really give a **** about the current argument...i think some people on here overrate rodman(tho his defense and rebounding are incredible) and pippen(not by alot..but its interesting listening to some of y'alls opinions)

anywho, of course...scottie is a top 50 player all time...awesome defender..versatile..etc.

scottie has the more accomplished career,but when its all said and done..rose will be the 2nd best bull(am i crazy to say he has a shot to be the best? he has an MVP and he's like 21 or 22? jordan didnt win his first title until his 7th or 8th year in the league)

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Grant wasn't a bull in 95 rami. Are you sure your a bulls fan?

And let's clear up this definsive efficiency rating/carlos boozer anlogy. You know why boozer rating is high? Cuz boozer never plays the oppositons best defender. Look at the heat series. He guarded anthony most of the time. Noah normally draws the big assignments. So natuarally, boozer would have a high defense rating.

Think of it like this. Dennis rodman lead the leagu in fg%. Does this mean he was the best shooter in the league that year or was it due to him only taking wide open dunks and layups?

Well, I apologize for not reading thoroughly enough. But you did leave out Ron Harper, who was one of the best perimeter defenders in the league at the time. He was the guy who helped guard the best defender in the opposing team until Jordan got there.

The fact that Boozer can have such a high defensive rating completely dismisses this idea that it is a telling stat.

And FG% has zero to do with this subject and is a completely different stat entirely. Obviously a player who averages 20 points on 45% shooting is going to be a better scorer than a guy who averages 4 points on 62% shooting.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

the second i saw pippen mentioned in some sort of argumentative question

i knew this was going to be interesting

dont really give a **** about the current argument...i think some people on here overrate rodman(tho his defense and rebounding are incredible) and pippen(not by alot..but its interesting listening to some of y'alls opinions)

anywho, of course...scottie is a top 50 player all time...awesome defender..versatile..etc.

scottie has the more accomplished career,but when its all said and done..rose will be the 2nd best bull(am i crazy to say he has a shot to be the best? he has an MVP and he's like 21 or 22? jordan didnt win his first title until his 7th or 8th year in the league)

Me being the Pippen fan that I am, ill even admit that someday Rose very much could become the Bulls 2nd best player in history...At his young age, he has a very good headstart...But as of now, Pippen is most definately the 2nd best bulls player in history...Rose will never ever pass up Jordan though as #1 best bulls player in history...No one will ever pass Jordan as greatest NBAplayer in history either.....Steve Kerrr once said it best, " He's a basketball God".......Back to Rose, if PaxGar doesn't get Rose some real backcourt scoring help, I hate to say that with Him having to do so much, it could lead to a devitating injury and early retirement...PAXgar better not waste the blessing of having Rose on this team....Straight up!!!

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

This is so ridiculous.

So I am assuming that Pippen is an "average" player because I believe that even a guy like Kendall Gill would have won the team championships as Jordan's secondary wing player?

I think a lot of people are not giving Jordan nearly enough credit in this forum. And that is disturbing to me.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

This is so ridiculous.

So I am assuming that Pippen is an "average" player because I believe that even a guy like Kendall Gill would have won the team championships as Jordan's secondary wing player?

I think a lot of people are not giving Jordan nearly enough credit in this forum. And that is disturbing to me.

its because jordan is a ****** bag like kanye west

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

My entire originally point was saying that Derrick Rose has grown his offensive game to the point where it is already better than Scottie Pippen's offensive game. Rose will never be the defender Pippen is... or even close. And, as of right now, Pippen is undeniably the more accomplished player in Bulls' franchise history. But that doesn't take away from who Rose is right now. There was never a point in Pippen's career that he could get to the rim at will against any defender(s). Rose undeniably can.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

One very important statement I must make...The powers that be locked and closed my famous "1994 Bulls vs 2011 bulls in 7 game thread" because they thought the argument was over....But the way it seems, this thread has turned into a sort of sequel to my elite classic epic thread..My important question to the mods is, WHY CAN'T YOU JUST REOPEN MY THREAD SINCE IT IS QUITE OBVIOUS THAT THE SAME ARGUMENT IS BASICALLY GOING ON HERE? And I ain't even the one that started the Pippen argument again..If this continues, every thread on this forum is going to turn into a Pippen debate.......Might as well change the name of this forum to the Pippen Forum....LoL.